Batman...again

[RTBrandy]

OK, not to beat a dead horse, but who's the guy posing aas Bruce Wayne/Batman in the last issue? Looks like Bruce. Looks like Bats. But the similarities stop there.

 

If I close my eyes (after reading the word bubbles) nad picture some dude in a Columbo looking trenchcoat as the main character, it's a good story. But Batman? no way.

 

And as for Killer Croc??? THAT was Croc??!! Jesus, they should make newbies at least look at the pictures in the previous runs!!!

 

This is like a Roger Corman take on Batman!!

[rob_react]

It's not a Batman story. I'm going to re-read it ignoring the fact that it's supposed to be Batman and I think I'll enjoy it.

 

The re-design of Croc has annoyed me to no end. I actually forget who he's supposed to be until his name is mentioned. That's not good.

 

[OldGuy]

As much as I like the 100 Bullets crew, this should have been a mini-series. Actually, personally I like it, but if I were a Batman fan I'd be ticked off about this arc. It does seem totally out of place with the Batman title. Yup, should have been a mini.

[fazman]

Lets pretent it was a " Else World " story !!

[chrisco37]

OK...I can't take it anymore. I must defend, to the end, Azzerello and Risso. The 2nd part was much improved over the first part. The story seemes to be picking up pace. Yes, Croc could look better. But, Batman looks great! Looks like Miller's version. Doesn't anyone else (besides me & Lantern) like the "Dark Knight Detective" take as a change from "Superhero Batman" w/ all the Bat-gadgets and allies?

 

And, seriously, how many of you were blown away when Hush was revealed? The Riddler, a character that has always been played as the buffon is the supreme mastermind behind one of Bats "greatest mysteries"? Talk about anti-climactic!!!!!

 

Chris

[seank]

I'll ditto chrisco37 here. I like the Dark Knight detective Batman as opposed to the gadgeteer, although the current story is a bit confusing at the moment. My favorite period for Batman is the 1970s. You get the early Denny O'Neil stories that return Batman to his roots in the early 1970s then some great David Reed stories in the late 1970s which follow those roots. Not to mention the great Englehart/Rodgers run in Detective. Batman seriously needs a bat-implosion to get rid of the excess characters and sidekicks he's carrying around now. He's at his best when he's a loner who uses his brains and brawn instead of a network of allies. Let's face it, Oracle is at best a crutch for lazy writing. Retire the character or fix her spine and make her Batgirl again.

[rob_react]

OK...I can't take it anymore. I must defend, to the end, Azzerello and Risso. The 2nd part was much improved over the first part. The story seemes to be picking up pace. Yes, Croc could look better. But, Batman looks great! Looks like Miller's version. Doesn't anyone else (besides me & Lantern) like the "Dark Knight Detective" take as a change from "Superhero Batman" w/ all the Bat-gadgets and allies?

 

The point, for me at least, is not the angle. I'm actually partial to the "Dark Knight Detective" loner angle myself. Robin is too many extra characters for me. Regardless, the point isn't about the overall angle, it's about this particular story and the fact that, for me at least, Batman is no where to be found. Sure, there's a guy that LOOKS like Batman, he just doesn't sound or feel like Batman to me. He feels like a generic "Hard Boiled Detective" in a funny suit. I can see what they're trying to do. The non-mutated croc redesign is evidence enough of that. They're pulling out all the superhero elements and turning it into a full-on detective story. Great. That's a cool angle. I just wish they'd done a better job of bringing Batman himself along for the ride.

 

As I said earlier, I think I'd enjoy it more if I stopped thinking of it as a Batman story and being frustrated with the characterization.

 

Croc, by the way, doesn't need to look "better" he just needs to look like the actual character he supposed to be. He looks like Wall-Eyed Pike from Miller's Daredevil with sharp teeth.

[RTBrandy]

Obviously, I'm with rob on this....

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying these guys aren't talented, I'm just saying this isn't Batman. I, too like him as a loner, overcoming the odds, etc.... Maybe they are trying to remake him, or unmake him, but it's not sitting well with me.

 

I think the mini series, or prestige one-shot would be a better venue for this type of story.

[Zonker]

As noted elsewhere, the Az/Risso arc started out as a graphic novel. I think some of the confusion I had with the first issue had to do with pacing problems once it was chopped up. I thought the 2nd issue was a big step up... we'll see.

 

I do think Risso draws a cool Batman. And I'm willing to forgive Az a lot in terms of characterization-- at least he's not doing the psycho-Bats that Loeb and others have been giving us for way too long.

[Foolkiller]

sorry chris, so far the az/risso bats storyline has been a disappointment. I hate the risso art, and think it's completely off for the batman book.

 

Yeah, I agree that the Hush storyline was certainly anti-climatic, but making the riddler, a traditionally tier two villian the main villian is actually a great move but it also has to be executed properly in order to make it seem like a cool idea. Geoff Johns has pretty much made a career out of turning the second tier villian into a cool villian especially in the Flash.

 

The problem I have with the az/risso storyline is that it still doesn't feel like Batman, the dialog etc. is just all off. But, such as it is, I'm still buying it to give it one more month... then it goes off the list entirely... I have no interest in the team following Az... the writer being Judd Winick who is an absolute overrated hack. There's pretty much nothing memorable he's written in the super hero genre, and in my opinion, has not earned a run on Bats.

 

 

[chrisco37]

No need to apologize, Brian. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I just don't understand the slams after two issues.

 

If you read Azzarello's stuff (Bullets, his Hellblazer run), most of his stories/arcs consist of more than a few issues of "set up" with a big payoff at the end. That's what I think we can expect from this Batman run.

 

Storywise, I think most of us will agree that "Hush" wasn't Loeb's best run on Batman (I thought Long Halloween killed it, and Dark Victory was better as well).

 

Artwise, to compare it to "Hush" isn't really fair. Lee and Risso are two entirely dofferent artists. Dynamic vs. Moody. Detail vs. Minimalism.

 

BTW - I really need to read those Johns Flash books. Never been a big flash fan, but I've heard his stuff is fantastic!

 

Chris

[rob_react]

No need to apologize, Brian. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I just don't understand the slams after two issues.

 

Although I wouldn't call what's being done here "slamming" I would say it's entirely fair to be unhappy with this particular arc based on what most people are complaining about- mostly the nebulous "Batman" character at the center of the story. If, after two full issues, people are continuing to scratch their collective heads, wondering who that guy in the Batman suit is, then I think it's fair to make an issue of it. The story might indeed kick butt in the end, but if it continues with this stock detective in the lead role it'll be a Batman story in name only.

 

I have no doubts whatsoever this story- minus the bat-mythos specific references; would read just as well with a classic trench coated detective photoshopped over Batman in every panel. That's not a good thing.

[Foolkiller]

chris:

 

the other thing I've thought of doing is simply reading the story when it's reprinted as a trade... many stories I wasn't crazy about reading on a month to month basis turned out to be even better reads when I read the whole thing in one shot as a trade... if I do drop bats, maybe I'll pick this up again and see where it's at.

[chrisco37]

Sort of

... I have no interest in the team following Az... the writer being Judd Winick who is an absolute overrated hack.

 

I saw this the other day as well. For some reason, I thought Loeb/Lee were going to remain on the series for another story. But, say this upcoming arc is 6 issues, I would have to believe that this would conflict w/ Lee's work on Superman. Is he (Lee) done on Batman for now? I can't imagine him doing the art on both of DC's main characters.

 

Will Loeb return for more Batman (hopefully w/ Tim Sale )?

 

Chris

[Foolkiller]

As you already know Jim Lee is going to do Superman next, but does have plans to reteam with jeph on another run of Batman... my suspicion is for 2005. I also suspect this will focus on the whole issue of Jason Todd's body and some sort of resolution to that dangling plotline. I think other writers would be a bit afraid to approach that issue, and since Jeph left the door open, let him clear it up.

 

It's strange because the new Superman/Batman book is going to have Michael turner on that book, so DC has nailed down some incredibly top talent to do their books.

[seank]

 

Will Loeb return for more Batman (hopefully w/ Tim Sale )?

 

 

Be still my beating heart. I'd love to see TIm Sale do Batman.

[Lantern]

Be still my beating heart. I'd love to see TIm Sale do Batman.

 

You do not have to wait very long, he already did it.

 

[chrisco37]

Be still my beating heart. I'd love to see TIm Sale do Batman.

 

Here's a partial scan of a page from Batman: Dark Victory. Art by Tim Sale!

 

Enjoy!

 

Chris

[seank]

Uh... I knew Tim Sale did those books. I... uh... forgot for a moment. Perhaps I should contact Lighthouse about buying some TPBs...

[lighthouse]

Eeexxxxxxcellent!

 

All is going according to plan...