UFC 97

[awe4one]

C'mon, you guys are being way too harsh. Let's be honest; this isn't real fighting! It is a SPORT. These guys are ATHLETES. No one questions a technically superior boxer when he keeps his distance and circles for points and then, when ahead, avoids serious contact. I think people that watch UFC have to get away from "these guys are the baddest guys on the planet" mentality and realize they are just:

1) Trying to make a buck (why else would they do this, enjoyment?)

2) Gain popularity and status and make more money

3) Maintain their ranking and ensure their longevity as athlete/fighters

 

Everyone wants to see these guys tear each other's heads off or issue a brutal beating but those days are long gone (they were really never there). Want to see a real brutal fight? Ride with a tac cop and engage in a street fight with no RULES where anything goes. Don't look for it with wrestler/athletes.

That was my . Thanks for listening.

 

Ah...but this "rip their heads off" mentality is exactly what UFC is promoting. No one watches UFC to see people rolling on the ground. They watch for someone to get pounded. It's the brutality that's the draw not athletes worrying about their future prospects.

 

Boxing has done a great job educating their viewers where a boxer can coast in the late rounds and it's fully understood. Doing so in UFC, or a round or match that stays on the ground with little action, is frustrating and feels like a conceit. In a word, UFC caters to the ADD crowd...and if they want you to continue paying $40-50 to watch one of their matches I suspect they had better make sure they put on a better show with people unconscious on the ground. Because with a customer base expecting instant satisfaction, they are likely to find their fix elsewhere should you not provide their entertainment quickly...

 

Jim

[Calidream'n]

C'mon, you guys are being way too harsh. Let's be honest; this isn't real fighting! It is a SPORT. These guys are ATHLETES. No one questions a technically superior boxer when he keeps his distance and circles for points and then, when ahead, avoids serious contact. I think people that watch UFC have to get away from "these guys are the baddest guys on the planet" mentality and realize they are just:

1) Trying to make a buck (why else would they do this, enjoyment?)

2) Gain popularity and status and make more money

3) Maintain their ranking and ensure their longevity as athlete/fighters

 

Everyone wants to see these guys tear each other's heads off or issue a brutal beating but those days are long gone (they were really never there). Want to see a real brutal fight? Ride with a tac cop and engage in a street fight with no RULES where anything goes. Don't look for it with wrestler/athletes.

That was my . Thanks for listening.

 

Ah...but this "rip their heads off" mentality is exactly what UFC is promoting. No one watches UFC to see people rolling on the ground. They watch for someone to get pounded. It's the brutality that's the draw not athletes worrying about their future prospects.

 

Boxing has done a great job educating their viewers where a boxer can coast in the late rounds and it's fully understood. Doing so in UFC, or a round or match that stays on the ground with little action, is frustrating and feels like a conceit. In a word, UFC caters to the ADD crowd...and if they want you to continue paying $40-50 to watch one of their matches I suspect they had better make sure they put on a better show with people unconscious on the ground. Because with a customer base expecting instant satisfaction, they are likely to find their fix elsewhere should you not provide their entertainment quickly...

 

Jim

 

But see, that's just my point. The UFC fails on so many levels that I can't honestly see how it survives! I truly believe it is all hype. Fans love to back certain athletes, their "hero" if you will. (Reminds me of the WWF) They make them out to be the baddest M*F* around, and wait to see what they can do. The few times I've left it on for more than a minute, all I ever see is guys rolling around on the ground like what I would imagine a gay porno would have. Is it fighting? Um, not really. Let's get rid of some of those stupid limitations such as kicking while someone is down, or eye gouging, or testicle punches or biting, pressure points, etc. and then see how fast people would stay away from the wrestling, or ground "game" as they call it. If someone wants to watch good wrestling match, don't certain ESPN channels show college matches?

And on another note, given the beginnings of the UFC and the practices back then, I wouldn't doubt if a lot of matches weren't fixed. Once again, just my

[ashrael]

If you don't want to watch grappling, watch kickboxing. Is it so tough to figure that out?

[Silver Surfer]

Its time they gave Cheik Kongo a title fight.

 

against who? Brock

 

I think Kongo would drop Brock as this would be a good match up for Cheik. Chuck like Vanderlai and other great fighters just can't take a punch like they use to after they had their bell rung one too many times. Rua looked like he was in shape and if he stays committed he will not be a fun guy to fight. I still think that GSP is too small to hurt or take on Silva. Only chance he would have is if he takes him to the ground and keeps him there.

[joe_collector]

The only guy who has a chance at beating Silva is Nate "The Great" Marquardt.

 

Sure, he lost the first title shot, but he was noticeably nervous and tentative, then got tagged, but his recent fights have shown him to be the most dangerous fighter in the division, even including Silva.

 

He's big, fast, strong and has a killer ground game. Plus, he just annihilates opponents.

 

The only thing that hurt Nate was that incredibly lame split-decision "loss" to Leites, where Marquardt was deducted two points (one of which was UFC-invented) and essentially gave up the fight (and proved the UFC wanted to give Leites a title shot - careful what you wish for) to the same "fall and pray" tactics employed against Silva last night.

[Silver Surfer]

Actually if Vanderlai decides to drop weight I could see him giving Silva a run for his money but he would probably get knocked out because of Silva's reach/style. Damian Maia is next in line and would just take him to the ground and finish it. Silva defense while on his back is pretty hard to pass but a pro like Maia could really give him trouble.

[Calidream'n]

If you don't want to watch grappling, watch kickboxing. Is it so tough to figure that out?

I don't want to watch either. I'm just saying that the UFC seems to me little more than wrestling, which is fine if you like that kind of thing. Is it worthy of the term "Ultimate Fighting Challenge"? Hardly.

[Dollarbill]

Damian Maia is next in line and would just take him to the ground and finish it. Silva defense while on his back is pretty hard to pass but a pro like Maia could really give him trouble.

At the post fight press conference of UFC 95,there was mention of Marquardt vs Maia ,with the winner fighting Silva

 

[sd2416]

$$Liddel will keep fighting for the same reasons the Shamrock's keep fighting$$

 

In the UFC, it's easy for fans to give fighters a 2nd, 3rd, and 4th chance back at another fight. It's mainly becuase there's a good amount of chance and luck when you fight a UFC fight. anyone can get caught at anytime. I've tried getting into UFC but it's just not my thing.

 

 

Dana said if Chuck didnt impress him with this fight, he was done in the UFC.

[sd2416]

The only guy who has a chance at beating Silva is Nate "The Great" Marquardt.

 

Sure, he lost the first title shot, but he was noticeably nervous and tentative, then got tagged, but his recent fights have shown him to be the most dangerous fighter in the division, even including Silva.

 

He's big, fast, strong and has a killer ground game. Plus, he just annihilates opponents.

 

The only thing that hurt Nate was that incredibly lame split-decision "loss" to Leites, where Marquardt was deducted two points (one of which was UFC-invented) and essentially gave up the fight (and proved the UFC wanted to give Leites a title shot - careful what you wish for) to the same "fall and pray" tactics employed against Silva last night.

 

Silva would ko him even quicker then he did in 07

[thirdgreenham]

I love Anderson Silva, but that was one boring fight. I think he was just making sure that he got the record for 9 consecutive wins. Can you blame him?

 

Andy

[MichiganFlynn]

 

Ah...but this "rip their heads off" mentality is exactly what UFC is promoting. No one watches UFC to see people rolling on the ground. They watch for someone to get pounded. It's the brutality that's the draw not athletes worrying about their future prospects.

 

Boxing has done a great job educating their viewers where a boxer can coast in the late rounds and it's fully understood. Doing so in UFC, or a round or match that stays on the ground with little action, is frustrating and feels like a conceit. In a word, UFC caters to the ADD crowd...and if they want you to continue paying $40-50 to watch one of their matches I suspect they had better make sure they put on a better show with people unconscious on the ground. Because with a customer base expecting instant satisfaction, they are likely to find their fix elsewhere should you not provide their entertainment quickly...

 

Jim

 

I have to disagree with you on this one. If you saw the fight, you'd know that Rogan and Goldberg were making a point above the boos that these two fighters were very technical and that "fast food fans" were the ones booing, and they were right.

 

The brutality draws the casual fan, but the hardcore fans, the ones who understand the ground and pound game, the nature of submission style fighting are the ones who stick around long after those casual fans are gone.

 

UFC in general has been making a point to stand up the fighters when the action has slowed. If a fighter is working on a submission that's going somewhere, the action is not going to stop, no matter how much the fickle fans care. UFC does just fine with the average viewer, they never promise instant action or brutal knockouts, it's the insufficiently_thoughtful_person casual viewer that expects this sort of thing. Go watch pro wrestling if you want instant action, MMA is a sport, not entertainment.

 

Rogan and Goldberg have done great jobs to explain that working of the ground game, explaining what a fighter is doing. If the casual fan couldn't care less, they won't be listening in the first place.

 

Now, having said all that, we attended this event and let me tell you, Montreal fans have got to be the rudest, most arrogant and pathetic fans I'll ever see. From the start of the first preliminary fight, we heard boos in the first THIRTY SECONDS. From insufficiently_thoughtful_persons fighting in the stands (over ten fights mind you), to an over consumption of beer and food, this crowd was ready for blood and it spilled over.

 

UFC 97 sold poorly despite what Zuffa will tell you. There were floor seats going for 150 bucks. The casual fans who never attended an event were able to get incredible seats, not knowing anything about the sport in general. All they heard was MMA was "a bunch of guys knocking each other out" and that's what they expected.

 

The Leites/Silva fight was terrible because of Leites. Silva is a counterstriker, Leites is a BJJ. Putting them together is like watching an olympic contest, it's going to slow, tedious and very boring to the average viewer. Leites was a disgrace, but Silva is also expected to put on a better performance. He did average and I can't blame him for not wanting to get into Leites guard, why take a stupid risk to appease fans who couldn't give a about your style in the first place?

 

The PPV wasn't great, but it's far from the worst. The fans deserve to never have an event there again, chanting another fighters name during a fight is probably the most disrespectful thing you can ever do. The main event wasn't great, but it's what was on paper, two technical fighters. Leites knew he wouldn't beat Silva on the standup, and Silva didn't want to risk getting into Leites guard and risk losing his title, fair is fair.

 

The UFC is growing and this sort of crowd is sadly going to become more of the norm, but I do believe Zuffa and Dana are doing a great job of promoting not only stand up specialists, but ground and pound fighters as well. Joe and Mike are doing the best they can to remind the insufficiently_thoughtful_person viewer that not every fight is going to a brutal slugfest, and they aren't promoted like that.

 

And for you insufficiently_thoughtful_persons with the "rolling around like a bunch of sweaty gay guys" grow up. I'm pretty sure football players are always patting each other on the every play and sharing hot sweaty showers together.

[MichiganFlynn]

 

But see, that's just my point. The UFC fails on so many levels that I can't honestly see how it survives! I truly believe it is all hype. Fans love to back certain athletes, their "hero" if you will. (Reminds me of the WWF) They make them out to be the baddest M*F* around, and wait to see what they can do. The few times I've left it on for more than a minute, all I ever see is guys rolling around on the ground like what I would imagine a gay porno would have. Is it fighting? Um, not really. Let's get rid of some of those stupid limitations such as kicking while someone is down, or eye gouging, or testicle punches or biting, pressure points, etc. and then see how fast people would stay away from the wrestling, or ground "game" as they call it. If someone wants to watch good wrestling match, don't certain ESPN channels show college matches?

And on another note, given the beginnings of the UFC and the practices back then, I wouldn't doubt if a lot of matches weren't fixed. Once again, just my

 

It's not just fighting, it's working towards a submission, or a knockout on the ground. Educate yourself before you spout off such nonsense. I'm pretty sure any of those "gay porno" guys could knock your out in thirty seconds by dragging you on the ground and knocking you out cold or ripping your arm off. Try watching it for more then a few minutes to understand what's really going on in the ground game. It's a sport, not professional wrestling.

 

And I'm so sick of this "fixed" matches BS. If UFC or MMA was fixed in general, it wouldn't be a sport, period. If UFC was fixed, Chuck would have won by a brutal knockout, Kimbo Slice (ugh) would be heavyweight champion in EliteXC, which would still be around instead of losing to a pink haired journeyman in 15 seconds.

 

MMA's appeal is that anything can happen, and it does.

[Silver Surfer]

Damian Maia is next in line and would just take him to the ground and finish it. Silva defense while on his back is pretty hard to pass but a pro like Maia could really give him trouble.

At the post fight press conference of UFC 95,there was mention of Marquardt vs Maia ,with the winner fighting Silva

 

That's going to be a great fight. As good as Marquardt is on the ground most guys get intimidated when they meet a World Class BJJ guy and end up on the floor. Will be interesting to see how it effects his game when that happens.

[joe_collector]

And I'm so sick of this "fixed" matches BS. If UFC or MMA was fixed in general, it wouldn't be a sport, period. If UFC was fixed, Chuck would have won by a brutal knockout, Kimbo Slice (ugh) would be heavyweight champion in EliteXC, which would still be around instead of losing to a pink haired journeyman in 15 seconds.

 

I think you're missing what people are referring to, especially the Kimbo fight, which was a fix attempt. In that example, Seth was told that if he stood and traded with Kimbo, his payout would be much higher, so that's what he did and knocked out Kimatoe. But that wasn't the intended result, and it was just to ensure Seth didn't take it to the ground.

 

It was a blatantly attempted fix, it just didn't work, and the same thing happens in the UFC. They call these fixes anything they want, like knockout bonuses or outright payoffs, but it amounts to the same thing - the organization weighting things in favor of its intended winner.

[joe_collector]

That's going to be a great fight. As good as Marquardt is on the ground most guys get intimidated when they meet a World Class BJJ guy and end up on the floor. Will be interesting to see how it effects his game when that happens.

 

This should be a great fight, especially as all this world-champion BJJ is kinda over-rated in MMA today. Maia is great, but at this level (as with Silva) I don't see him submitting Nate unless he's already hurt/dazed. And someone like Nate (2nd degree BB BJJ) likely could have won a few had he been born in Brazil and raised on the sport as a competition.

 

Same with GSP and wrestling - the guy would have gone to the Olympics had he followed a different career path, and he is the best wrestler in his weight class, which is full of Division 1 champions.

[ashrael]

It was a blatantly attempted fix, it just didn't work, and the same thing happens in the UFC. They call these fixes anything they want, like knockout bonuses or outright payoffs, but it amounts to the same thing - the organization weighting things in favor of its intended winner.

 

You are ignoring the fact that they also have "Submission of the Night" and "Fight of the Night" bonuses. They aren't putting it in anyone's favor except that they prefer a finish (but is not needed for "Fight") and excitement. Can you blame them for that?

[Silver Surfer]

That's going to be a great fight. As good as Marquardt is on the ground most guys get intimidated when they meet a World Class BJJ guy and end up on the floor. Will be interesting to see how it effects his game when that happens.

 

This should be a great fight, especially as all this world-champion BJJ is kinda over-rated in MMA today. Maia is great, but at this level (as with Silva) I don't see him submitting Nate unless he's already hurt/dazed. And someone like Nate (2nd degree BB BJJ) likely could have won a few had he been born in Brazil and raised on the sport as a competition.

 

Same with GSP and wrestling - the guy would have gone to the Olympics had he followed a different career path, and he is the best wrestler in his weight class, which is full of Division 1 champions.

 

Yeah but guys like Maia have trained and competed all their lives to defend submissions against the very best. The slightest mistake and it usually results in getting into a bad position or submission. Guys that face these kind of opponents in the cage tend to hesitate and freeze because they are scared of the takedown or locking up with a killer like Maia. Being a 2nd degree BB is one thing, being a World Champion that is known for submitting guys is a whole different level. I agree that a lot of these BJJ guys are overrated in the cage but I think Maia will prove to be an exception to this, just too smart and way too seasoned on the ground. I know Nate has great training partners but I don't think he has anyone to train with that can match up with Maia skills. GSP is unique and has embarrassed his share of wrestlers but high level BJJ is much more complex to defend. It will be a great fight.

[Calidream'n]

 

But see, that's just my point. The UFC fails on so many levels that I can't honestly see how it survives! I truly believe it is all hype. Fans love to back certain athletes, their "hero" if you will. (Reminds me of the WWF) They make them out to be the baddest M*F* around, and wait to see what they can do. The few times I've left it on for more than a minute, all I ever see is guys rolling around on the ground like what I would imagine a gay porno would have. Is it fighting? Um, not really. Let's get rid of some of those stupid limitations such as kicking while someone is down, or eye gouging, or testicle punches or biting, pressure points, etc. and then see how fast people would stay away from the wrestling, or ground "game" as they call it. If someone wants to watch good wrestling match, don't certain ESPN channels show college matches?

And on another note, given the beginnings of the UFC and the practices back then, I wouldn't doubt if a lot of matches weren't fixed. Once again, just my

 

It's not just fighting, it's working towards a submission, or a knockout on the ground. Educate yourself before you spout off such nonsense. I'm pretty sure any of those "gay porno" guys could knock your out in thirty seconds by dragging you on the ground and knocking you out cold or ripping your arm off. Try watching it for more then a few minutes to understand what's really going on in the ground game. It's a sport, not professional wrestling.

 

 

But see, that's just my point. The UFC fails on so many levels that I can't honestly see how it survives! I truly believe it is all hype. Fans love to back certain athletes, their "hero" if you will. (Reminds me of the WWF) They make them out to be the baddest M*F* around, and wait to see what they can do. The few times I've left it on for more than a minute, all I ever see is guys rolling around on the ground like what I would imagine a gay porno would have. Is it fighting? Um, not really. Let's get rid of some of those stupid limitations such as kicking while someone is down, or eye gouging, or testicle punches or biting, pressure points, etc. and then see how fast people would stay away from the wrestling, or ground "game" as they call it. If someone wants to watch good wrestling match, don't certain ESPN channels show college matches?

And on another note, given the beginnings of the UFC and the practices back then, I wouldn't doubt if a lot of matches weren't fixed. Once again, just my

 

It's not just fighting, it's working towards a submission, or a knockout on the ground. Educate yourself before you spout off such nonsense. I'm pretty sure any of those "gay porno" guys could knock your out in thirty seconds by dragging you on the ground and knocking you out cold or ripping your arm off. Try watching it for more then a few minutes to understand what's really going on in the ground game. It's a sport, not professional wrestling.

 

Ok, you've warranted a response. Lucky for you, Whisp has me all fired up and I don't mind spending some time giving you a reply.

I am about as well "educated" as you might expect one to be one the subject of Martial Arts. I am a former NavSpecWar member, and since getting out of the military I have taught tactical law enforcement officers how to not only defend, but disarm and apprehend the baddies for the past 8 years. When I was first interviewing to get the job of teaching through a recommendation of a few former military members then on the police force, I was asked to give several demonstrations to show what I had to offer to the community. There was another gentleman there looking to pick up work as an instructor, also recommended by some of the cops. Well, he was a MMA Gracie Ju-Jitsu Instructor Qualfied whatever. He asked to have me show him how I would apprehend him. Long story short, went to the ground and I bit a chunk of flesh off the back of his tricep that made him tear up like a little b***h and jump away from me. I welcome someone like that who is trained in "the ground game" to get nice and close so that I can gouge an eye, bite, tear some nuts off...whatever. It is a SPORT and not a real Martial Art and has no practical application in the real world. My cops would do real well on some dark night taking a guy to the ground and wrestling around while one if their buddies came up with a bat and takes their head off. It is a very limited sport, and I find it laughable that people consider these guys such bada**es.

As far as watching more than a few minutes of one of these fights, I have. So once again, before you open up your mouth, understand that there are serious limitations to this form of entertainment. These guys are not warriors. They are wrestlers, plain and simple. I would have no problems going into the ring or "octagon" with one of these guys and I'm sure it wouldn't end in the way you stated. In a true anything goes fight, I would put one of my veteran tactical cops against one of these UFC Stars to win any day, any time.

I'll get into what I know about the early "fixes" of the UFC at a later time.

 

[Dollarbill]

Silva will be moving up to Light heavyweight to fight Forrest Griffin at UFC 101.

 

Also on the card BJ Penn takes on Kenny Florian.

 

http://msn.foxsports.com/boxing/story/9514126/A.-Silva-to-fight-Griffin-at-UFC-101