a CGC question!

[metropoliscomics]

I want to guage people's opinions about the following type of situation.

 

A book is sold to a collector as an unrestored VF. The book is them submitted by the new owner to CGC. The book comes back as an universal FVF. The new owner is unhappy due to the fact he bought it as a VF and wants his money back. Nice and Simple. What do you, as the original seller, do?

[blowout]

that is close enough to the raw grade that it falls under the 'grading is subjective' umberella for me.

the book could easily be resubmitted and a VF grade achieved.

but in the interests of customer service i would refund the money (not grading costs though).

[BachelorOfComix]

Under that scenario, I would refund the money minus grading fees. If you're adept at grading, returns like this should not occur too often in the long run, but it's bound to happen. Might as well make the customer happy. Once you lose a customer, it's tough to get 'em back.

 

Funny though, if the opposite occurs: A book is sold to a collector as an unrestored VF. The book is them submitted by the new owner to CGC. The book comes back as an universal VF/NM. What happens then??? Does the collector send some extra greenbacks to the seller for the generous grading? Nope. He comes back hoping to purchase some more ungraded gems.

 

Bottom Line is accurate grading will prevent some headaches for the buyer & seller.

 

Cheers,

 

Bachelor of Comics

[murph0]

I don't know that I'd accept a return on that..if it came back VF+ you wouldn't send me extra money would you?

 

Brian

[Rickdogg]

Maybe a partial refund, but a full refund would be out of the question since this is a close one. If you had stated it as being in the 9.0-9.2 range that would be different. In this case a refund is very, very questionable.

[Darthdiesel]

Out with it already...who is this dirty seller....time to breakout the scarlet letter for comic sellers, "B" for BLIND Obviously not using your 25 point (?) or 10 point system...

 

 

As a seller, I tell the buyer to go screw, cuz there are plenty more suckers, like rickdogg, that I can convince that CGC's grading must therefore be inferior to mine because they grade the NM/MT book I sold them lower at F/VF.

 

Or here is my best tactic and I suggest all of you overgrading sellers adopt this one in your repertoire: "It is obvious that when I sold this book to you it was NM/MT, but when you packaged it improperly and sent it through this country's crappy mail system, most likely UPS, then you guaranteed it getting knocked down a few grades. That should teach you to doubt my grading and learn how to pack a book properly in the future!!!"

 

 

How's them bitter apples!!!

 

CGC F/VF when I advertise VF? And they want their money back??? I lay the smack down on that complaining whining buyer and tell them to go shove it where the sun don't shine. That may actually increase the grade

 

 

[BachelorOfComix]

no, of course not. would you??? what's your point???

 

Bachelor of Comics

[aardvark88]

U can give the customer a partial refund. Cgc grades however the heck they want to each week. Your grading may be based on 30 yrs of Overstreet stds. Just b/c Cgc thinks the bk is fn/vf, does NOT make it so if u have 3 other senior retailers/advisors grade it.

[BachelorOfComix]

Cgc grades however the heck they want to each week.

Really??? If that's the case, I suppose they have no credibility whatsover & no one should send their books in. Granted, they're not perfect; they're humans, they make mistakes from time to time. It just sounds like sour grapes coming from you. Over & over, like a broken record harping on CGC's grading. Been burned a few times sending in "NM" books only to have them slabbed "VF", huh???

 

Cheers,

 

Bachelor of Comics

[murph0]

Well it goes both ways..you could easily be over or under..it really depends on the person grading it. Personally, I don't think refunds should be issued unless it's "CGC grade guaranteed". In other words, only if you tell someone they'll get such and such a grade, should a refund be warranted in the case of a different CGC grade.

 

Brian

[Lockjaw]

Your complaint is ridiculous. A seller of raw books has no control over the book once it is in the new buyers hands...what if you packed the book to CGC and despite your claim that it was well packed...it sustained just enough damage in transit to ding up a corner a bit more.

 

Or what if the grader at CGC was so incredibly strict the day your book was graded that what could EASILY/realistically qualify as a raw Very Fine according to Overstreet, can easily be knocked down a half grade/full grade depending on who is grading the books you submit at CGC, and how sharp/tired they were when grading your book.

 

To many variables to make the seller responsible for your not getting a guaranteed Very Fine from CGC. And that is what you are doing...you are making the seller of a RAW book responsible for the grade it receives from CGC...a service that no one put a gun to your head to use (as if you have not noticed...it is pretty freakin expensive to submit to CGC).

 

I wonder if a CGC employee would find it fair that a seller of a raw book is supposed to be penalized in your book for their premium grading service falling short in your eyes, because you know, the seller said it was a Very Fine, so CGC MUST find it to be a Very Fine...or the seller of that raw book is wrong in his grading of the comic he sold you.

 

Tell you what, since you were sold the book raw, as a seller myself, I would say, send me back the book I sold you (which means you eat the money you paid to have the book graded by cracking the case...remember, not responsible for what you do with the book once you buy it from me)...then I will provide you with a refund. Another issue you failed to address...is the seller refunding you the money, but you are keeping the slabbed book???!!! Bwah, HA, HA! Like anyone sane would give you a refund in that situation without wanting back the merchandise they sold you.

 

Even better, if the book was insured...the PO would most likely only pay the claim for your initial cost of the book if you could prove it was never delivered (or provide reasonable proof it was lost), or damaged due to improper handling by the post office. You want to keep a book that many would argue is indeed in Very Fine condition, and get your money back at the same time...incredible.

 

Christopher H.

 

 

[Rickdogg]

I dont know about every one else but I don't think we know who the seller is at this point

[Lockjaw]

I have already posted a long response to the original poster's question, but why the heck would you give a refund without wanting your comic back? No one forces you to spend money to grade a raw book (so the seller is not even remotely responsible for whatever grade CGC wants to call the book)?

 

More to the point...this book received a F/VF...not a universal Very Good or something worse, right? Even CGC acknowledges that it would be unfair to simply say the book is fine...their split grade shows that there is wiggle room, and says to me that they understand that in the real world a non-professional grader with an eye nearly as discriminating as theirs could argue the book is a very fine comic. I find the orginal poster's question distressing...it is almost an attempt to rip-off the seller of the comic. Can you imagine the people who will crawl out of the wood-work to attempt this...buy a raw book that they are told is in NM...get it graded...comes back VF/NM...and ask for their money back because it is a split grade in CGC's eyes...of course, it goes without saying in this scenario that you want the money back without returning the comic to the original owner.

 

If you were in the sellers shoes that sold the comic to the original poster, would a refund request where the buyer keeps the book not set off any alarm bells???!!!! Scary--if such a request would not have you think twice about whether or not to give in to the buyers request.

 

I say that the seller should risk the neg that refusing to refund might get them. Heck, even a dang expensive professional grading service graded the comic with a split grade to allow for the argument that the comic could be considered by some people to be in Very Fine condition.

 

Christopher H.

 

 

[Lockjaw]

If the original poster is putting forth a hypothetical scenario...I still stand by the responses I posted on this thread.

 

Christopher H.

[Rickdogg]

In this case, the grade is too close to call and there shouldn't really be much discrepency. I think that once you move down the grading scale from "VF/NM" a seller should be allowed some room for grading since it is hard to tell sometimes. Like in all cases it just depends on how much of a "cushion" a seller uses.

 

I personally sell CGC books so there is no argument in grade, but when I do sell raw books I tend to grade them conservatively to make sure this doesn't happen.

[Kevin76]

That's all part of the game when you have something graded..buyer should learn how to grade better,so should the seller.I would not refund his cash,if it's something great,maybe i would,this way i would get the book graded for free and to resell it graded. Kevin

[Guest]

If the original poster is putting forth a hypothetical scenario...I still stand by the responses I posted on this thread.

 

I think Ricky was referring to the fact that the person posting the question is the "world's largest comic book dealer..."

 

As for the question itself, to my mind, in a case like this (VF or lower/ less than a point difference between seller and CGC) - it all depends on what your policy is. If you specifically guarantee against CGC grading, then you've got to pony up the money for a return. If, like most folks, you have a 7-10 day return policy with no mention of the CGC gambit, then I would respectfully decline giving the refund, explaining that "grading is a subjective art, etc. "

[keithdagen]

I would stick some line in my auction description for raw books that suggests that "since grading is subjective, grading opinions given cannot guarantee CGC results." Then include a big scan.

[blazingbob]

Well if I was Metropolis I would learn how to grade Then I would send them over to www.highgradecomics.com where customer satisfaction comes before the all mighty dollar , Lastly I would call up CGC because I know none of them can grade anyway

 

 

[comicinvestor-migration]

Here would be my reply:

 

"We grade by Overstreet Standards, as these are published guidelines that have attained full industry acceptance. CGC's grading guidelines are only known to CGC and CGC alone, therefore it is impossible to assign a CGC grade without first submitting the book in question.

 

If CGC ever publishes their standards in a detailed manner, then you can be sure we will then offer our estimated grades based upon these specifications."