Is it unethical to only provide a grade and …

[nocutename]

Wait to be asked why it is graded at xx? I know that this has been asked before but in the context of slabbed books but I am curious how everyone feels about raw books. I have come across a book that I liked and from the picture could not figure out why it was graded a 2.0 as the book looked like a 4.0 so I emailed the seller. Apparently there is a moisture stain on the bc that brings down the grade. Not an expensive book but why not list that as I am sure the question took more time to answer.

 

Here’s another example, I purchased a book at Fine and when I got it the staples were rusty with some migration to the cover and the entire top right hand corner was completely bug chewed. All not mentioned in the listing and the seller took the book back without any hassle. Now, he has it listed as VG and still did not disclose any of the books flaws. But VG books allow for rust and missing corner pieces.

 

Personally, I find not disclosing know flaws of a book to be unethical. The first case may be an oversight and they did response back to me very quickly but the second case really bothers me. I would love to hear other sellers opinions.

 

[Boozad]

Where were the purchases from? Ebay by any chance?

[blazingbob]

If a grade allows certain defects why do you need to further disclose what the defects are? VG with rusted staples, some people would go "That's a good".

 

CGC had issues with label comments because they did not clearly state "LABEL COMMENTS ARE NOTED AND FACTORED INTO THE GRADE GIVEN FOR THE BOOK".

 

Frankly I find that I could describe a VF/NM down to a Fine if I'm not careful with how I describe it.

 

 

[nocutename]

Where were the purchases from? Ebay by any chance?

 

My question is not about an ebay sellers. I can provide an instance of a book listed on these boards too, if you like. It is about seller's ommission and their intent whether innocent or malicious. Should certain flaws always be disclosed are is just a lower grade acceptable practice?

 

BTW - That is one of my favorite movies.

[Foolkiller]

No, I don't think it's unethical if the grade allows for the defects. I've had this happen several times and there's something where it bothers me, but it doesn't change the grade... if the seller takes the return, no harm, no foul. While it may be easier to simply describe the defect, if it's encompassed in the grade, it's certainly not unethical.

[nocutename]

If a grade allows certain defects why do you need to further disclose what the defects are? VG with rusted staples, some people would go "That's a good".

 

CGC had issues with label comments because they did not clearly state "LABEL COMMENTS ARE NOTED AND FACTORED INTO THE GRADE GIVEN FOR THE BOOK".

 

Frankly I find that I could describe a VF/NM down to a Fine if I'm not careful with how I describe it.

 

 

I too have a negative way with words but I would rather the buyer know exactly the books flaws before purchasing it. To be completely short-sighted here, there are a few flaws that bother me and while the grade may allow them, I think they should be disclosed. A VG book has a big range of appeal factors in it. I have gotten VG books (Thanks Mike) that are in great condition and others that you can see the wear and tear.

[nocutename]

No, I don't think it's unethical if the grade allows for the defects. I've had this happen several times and there's something where it bothers me, but it doesn't change the grade... if the seller takes the return, no harm, no foul. While it may be easier to simply describe the defect, if it's encompassed in the grade, it's certainly not unethical.

 

Perhaps, unethical is the too strong of a word. Again, this thread is not really about seller's accepting returns etc. But hitting on that particular case, the book is really bug chewed through every single page the corner and about a 1/4 to 1/2 " into the book. Something like that I would think should be disclosed but I digress.

 

The reason for the thread is not to complain about sellers but I am starting up a collection of romance books and some of them while not pricy, they are hard to find in any grade. So I am bidding on lower graded books than I have experience with so hence I am just wondering what to expect. It sounds like buyer beware and ask many questions up front.

 

Any other comments are appreciated.

[blazingbob]

What you are stating below is that you have a perk list of defects in the VG grade that bother you. I am not picking on you since I have the same customers who I have to profile because of their perks with high grade (Staple placement, corners, page quality, arrival dates, etc etc). And until the seller knows this than you are asking that he be a mind reader. I have 26K books online, I don't write lengthy descriptions of defects when describing low grade.

 

"To be completely short-sighted here, there are a few flaws that bother me and while the grade may allow them, I think they should be disclosed".

[Bosco685]

Some sellers that deal in high-volume sales will post a grading chart when on eBay so as to help prospective buyers judge what defects can be associated with a book. To have them do this by-book would be tough in their situation.

 

Here's an example of one.

 

===========================

Book Grading Clarifications: I utilize Overstreet and CGC’s system when grading books so there is a common seller-buyer reference. Please refer to this grading scale for any clarifications as there are distinct differences at each level.

 

•MINT (Rating Scale of 9.9 to 10.0 out of 10.0): What would be considered the greatest grade example of a book, and as if it has never been handled. Cover is flat with no surface wear, no creases, no date stamps or printing defects. This is a very rare find, which is why when identified they go for a premium price.

 

•NEAR MINT/MINT (Rating Scale of 9.8 out of 10.0): Nearly perfect, with very minor defects identifiable upon close inspection. Corners are sharp, no creases, no tears, no soiling, no spine roll or splits. Extremely small penciled, stamped, or inked arrival dates are acceptable as long as they are in an inconspicuous area. Also, no staple rusting or lose pages.

 

•NEAR MINT (Rating Scale of 9.2 to 9.6 out of 10.0): A book that looks like it was freshly purchased and read a few times. Small bindery defects are allowed, along with small corner blunting, 1/16” to 1/8” creases, and very slight discoloration. No staple rusting is allowed, and a number of spine stress lines are detectable or otherwise this would be a 9.8 copy. Extremely small penciled, stamped, or inked arrival dates are acceptable as long as they are in an inconspicuous area. Pages can be cream to off-white, but generally fresh looking.

 

•VERY FINE/NEAR MINT (Rating Scale of 9.0 out of 10.0): A nice looking book, but with acceptable bindery defects and staples that start to show signs of minor wear. It is not uncommon to see a 1/8” corner bend, and very minor foxing. Spine stress lines will be apparent, but should not be excessive or otherwise this would be in the Very Fine or less category. Pages can be cream to off-white, but generally fresh looking. Extremely small penciled, stamped, or inked arrival dates are acceptable as long as they are in an inconspicuous area.

 

•VERY FINE (Rating Scale of 7.5 to 8.5 out of 10.0): A comic book falling into this category shows signs of being carefully handled but excessively read. Up to a ¼” corner bend is allowed, but not an extremely large bend that detracts from the eye appeal of the book too much. Slight staple tears are detectable, and staple discoloration may start to appear. Stress lines along the spine are very apparent, but not excessive to the point the book is more Fine/Very Fine. Pages can be tan to cream. Penciled, stamped, or inked arrival dates are detectable.

 

•FINE/VERY FINE (Rating Scale of 7.0 out of 10.0): What many would consider an above-average book, still slightly flat and clean. Minor cover wear is detectable, and can include bends, blunting, reduced color, minor spine roll, and staples clearly starting to show discoloration that may even start to transfer to the surrounding paper. Pages can be tan to cream, but not excessively dark. Interior tears can be apparent, but not excessive.

 

•FINE (Rating Scale of 5.5 to 6.5 out of 10.0): This is still a collectible book, but shows signs of being read many times. It is very common to perceive blunted corners, discoloration of the cover, spine stress lines, some minor staining, minor spine roll, and a ¼” spine split or severe color break. Staple rusting that may show slight transfer to the surrounding paper may be evident, but not too excessive. Pages can be brown to tan, but not brittle, along with slight page looseness.

 

•VERY GOOD/FINE (Rating Scale of 5.0 out of 10.0): This is where a comic starts to fall into the “well-read” category. The number of defects will detract from the eye appeal of the book, but can still be considered an above-average book. It is not uncommon to see excessive spine stress lines, corner bends, tears up to ½” present, and moderate spine roll. Pages can be brown to tan, but not brittle, along with slight page looseness, but not detached.

 

•VERY GOOD (Rating Scale of 3.5 to 4.5 out of 10.0): What the market considers an average used comic, with significant defects such as creases, blunted corners, fading, foxing, soiling, and at this point you start to see pieces of the cover that may be missing up to ¼” is acceptable. You may also run across minor amateur repair work such as tape.

 

•GOOD/VERY GOOD (Rating Scale of 3.0 out of 10.0): What Overstreet calls “a used comic showing substantial wear.” Cover will have excessive wear, and may even be loose at this grade. It can have a book-length crease, corners may be blunted or rounded, soiling, and pieces missing up to ½” are acceptable. Amateur repairs with tape may be detected. Staples may be rusted, and up to moderate staple tears may be present. Pages can be brown but not brittle, and pages may be detached at one staple.

 

•GOOD (Rating Scale of 1.8 to 2.5 out of 10.0): This is a comic that shows substantial wear. It may have rounded corners, book creases, discoloration, foxing, missing pieces up to a ½” acceptable, and even up to 2” tears. Spine roll can be expected, along with tape repair, rusted staples, and loose pages. Pages will be brown but not brittle, and interior tears will most probably be present.

 

•There are lower grade ratings, but I do not sell books below Good as it can be tricky between a Fair/Good, Fair, and Poor rating.

[THE_BEYONDER]

Are we talking about books being sold without scans? How could one not see a rat chew?

[Boozad]

Where were the purchases from? Ebay by any chance?

 

My question is not about an ebay sellers. I can provide an instance of a book listed on these boards too, if you like. It is about seller's ommission and their intent whether innocent or malicious. Should certain flaws always be disclosed are is just a lower grade acceptable practice?

 

BTW - That is one of my favorite movies.

 

I wasn't hitting on the thread content, I've just seen it so many times on eBay. Is it ethical? I suppose if the defect is allowed in the grade the book was assigned then there is not a problem.

 

Personally I do list major defects though such as stains or detached covers/centrefolds etc. I just like people to know exactly what they're getting (thumbs u

[nocutename]

What you are stating below is that you have a perk list of defects in the VG grade that bother you. I am not picking on you since I have the same customers who I have to profile because of their perks with high grade (Staple placement, corners, page quality, arrival dates, etc etc). And until the seller knows this than you are asking that he be a mind reader. I have 26K books online, I don't write lengthy descriptions of defects when describing low grade.

 

"To be completely short-sighted here, there are a few flaws that bother me and while the grade may allow them, I think they should be disclosed".

 

It's not really a huge list, mostly rustly staples, foxing and mildewly smell which I normally ask these questions before buying even in higher grades.

 

I am aware that the grade allows and of course, I have passed up books when the seller does not response. I am kind of surprised that there is a tolerance of not having these type of flaws described.

[nocutename]

Are we talking about books being sold without scans? How could one not see a rat chew?

 

Because the front cover is not too affected. I bid on the book when it was listed as a fine because I did not think that type of flaw was allowable in that grade.

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/Sinister-House-of-Secret-Love-2-Gothic-romance-comic_W0QQitemZ350203722708QQihZ022QQcategoryZ165361QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[Bosco685]

Are you talking about the corner chew at the top right-hand side, as it is pretty apparent from that auction photo?

[nocutename]

Are you talking about the corner chew at the top right-hand side, as it is pretty apparent from that auction photo?

 

Sorry but to me it not. I don't have too much experience with chews from bugs or rodents. To me I just thought it was ripped. Again, in a Fine grade, I would not expect some snacking to be had on the book either.

[THE_BEYONDER]

Are you talking about the corner chew at the top right-hand side, as it is pretty apparent from that auction photo?

 

Sorry but to me it not. I don't have too much experience with chews from bugs or rodents. To me I just thought it was ripped. Again, in a Fine grade, I would not expect some snacking to be had on the book either.

 

Seller revised to VG which sounds about right....

 

[Bosco685]

Seller revised to VG which sounds about right....

That's what I thought too. If this was listed as a FINE, that wouldn't be allowed by Overstreet standards. In VERY GOOD, now this starts to account for some missing pieces of a book.

===================

•FINE (Rating Scale of 5.5 to 6.5 out of 10.0): This is still a collectible book, but shows signs of being read many times. It is very common to perceive blunted corners, discoloration of the cover, spine stress lines, some minor staining, minor spine roll, and a ¼” spine split or severe color break. Staple rusting that may show slight transfer to the surrounding paper may be evident, but not too excessive. Pages can be brown to tan, but not brittle, along with slight page looseness.

 

•VERY GOOD/FINE (Rating Scale of 5.0 out of 10.0): This is where a comic starts to fall into the “well-read” category. The number of defects will detract from the eye appeal of the book, but can still be considered an above-average book. It is not uncommon to see excessive spine stress lines, corner bends, tears up to ½” present, and moderate spine roll. Pages can be brown to tan, but not brittle, along with slight page looseness, but not detached.

 

•VERY GOOD (Rating Scale of 3.5 to 4.5 out of 10.0): What the market considers an average used comic, with significant defects such as creases, blunted corners, fading, foxing, soiling, and at this point you start to see pieces of the cover that may be missing up to ¼” is acceptable. You may also run across minor amateur repair work such as tape.

[FlyingDonut]

This is a thread about a $4 slightly over graded book with a huge scan, right?

 

Just checking.

[THE_BEYONDER]

This is a thread about a $4 slightly over graded book with a huge scan, right?

 

Just checking.

 

Lighten up Francis

[FlyingDonut]

This is a thread about a $4 slightly over graded book with a huge scan, right?

 

Just checking.

 

Lighten up Francis