Looking for opinions

[Domo Arigato]

And Joe: with 29 press jobs in your possession, I hope you'll give strong consideration to disclosing this work to prospective buyers when it comes time to sell any of these comics.

 

I didn't see any note on your Hulk 181 9.6 on CLink that it was pressed.

 

Ka-

[Bosco685]

That smiley is just this side of vulgar.

 

Fits the thread results.

[DarkKnightReturns]

Surprise, the presser is me. Joe emailed a couple of days ago informing me of his plans to post this to the boards. I told him he was free to use my name, and I'd be interested to hear what everybody thought.

 

When the Spidey #17 damage came to light several weeks ago, it was not until the book had been graded by CGC and returned to Joe. I didn't remember seeing the damage when I sent his books off. Yes, it's possible the book was damaged here. It's also possible it was damaged at CGC. Either way, Joe, myself and a rep at CGC had a discussion then, and I decided to reimburse Joe the difference between 7.5 and 8.0 value plus refund his pressing fee. He thought he should have gotten the value between 7.5 and 9.0.

 

After several more weeks (and the results of his last CGC invoice of pressed books) He emailed me Thursday with his plans to go to the boards. He tried again to argue his point about getting reimbursed up to 9.0, maybe to give me one more chance to "right" the situation so he would not come here. I stood my ground.

 

I'd like to add a couple of points to what is being said here. Yes, books get damaged here every once it a while. It's rare, though. Same is true at CGC, Heritage, Metro, and probably every other place that handles comic books. For me it's more precarious because I'm actually working on the books as opposed to just normal handling. But I take extreme care with the books I handle, and have designed my process over the years to minimize damage to as close to zero as possible.

 

I do have my disclaimer on the website that Joe, and everyone else who submits to me, acknowledged when he submitted the books.

 

One other point that I'd like to make--I realize that this point has nothing to do with the Spidey #17 situation in one regard, but in the big picture I think it is quite relevant. In Joe's order I pressed 29 books for him, with my estimates and the results below. I removed the titles and issues for his privacy:

 

book #1est. 9.0 grade 9.0 match

book #2 est. 9.0 grade 7.5 low

book #3 est. 7.5 grade 8.0 high

book #4 est. 9.0+ grade 9.0 match

book #5 est. 8.5+ grade 9.0 high

book #6 est. 7.0 grade 7.0 match

book #7 est. 9.0+ grade 9.0 match

book #8 est. 9.0+ grade 9.0 match

book #9 est. 9.4 grade 9.2 low

book #10 est. 8.5 grade 9.0 high

book #11 est. 8.0 grade 8.5 high

book #12 est. 9.2 grade 9.0 low

book #13 est. 9.0 grade 9.0 match

book #14 est. 9.4 grade 9.4 match

book #15 est. 9.0 grade 9.0 match

book #16 est. 9.4- grade 9.4 match

book #17 est. 9.4 grade 9.4 match

book #18 est. 9.6 grade 9.6 match

book #19 est 9.2 grade 9.2 match

book #20 est. 8.0 grade 8.5 high

book #21 est. 9.2 grade 9.0 low

book #22 est. 9.2 grade 9.2 match

book #23 est. 9.4 grade 9.6 high

book #24 est. 9.0 grade 9.4 high

book #25 est. 9.2 grade 9.4 high

book #26 est. 9.2 grade 9.4 high

book #27 est. 9.4- grade 9.2 low

book #28 est. 7.5 grade 8.0 high

book #29 est 8.0 grade 8.5 high

 

13 CGC grades matched my estimate, 10 graded one point higher than estimate, 1 graded 2 points higher, 4 graded one point lower than estimate, and finally the Spidey #17. This was a particularly good batch, a bit higher than usual.

 

Besides the fact that the pressings made Joe thousands of dollars, if I had adjusted the fees based on his results, he would have paid more for pressing. Of course I do not do this, but this was money he saved based on my conservative estimates.

 

The main reason I bring this up is to illustrate the mindset that one should have when pressing. You are taking a risk. Not all books work out. In fact, the more you do, the greater chance you're going to get a downgrade, whether it's CGC's grading that particular day, my proscreen being off, or even damage.

 

All of my long time clients know the risks involved, and every single one of them has lost money on a downgrade. But overall they are way ahead, and they don't hesitate for a second to use me. As shown above, Joe is way ahead right out the gate, but despite that he is still not willing to accept the risks involved with pressing. You can't win on every book every time. Net positive is the end goal.

 

Matt

 

 

 

Here is Matts response which seems most others on here agree is a fair one.

Here to lern doesn't want to seem to accept this and as some have said is being greedy by trying to get the 9.0 value

 

So my question is to "Here to Lern", Will you now accept this? after pages and pages of banter?

 

[faster friends]

I'll tell you what I would have done if it was me.

 

I would have kept my mouth shut after scoring on 28 other books instead of moaning about 1 book that got damaged.

 

It's true what they say, you can never please some people all the time and this situation proves it to a tee.

 

Ditto

[icefires]

You sent a book to be pressed.

The presser makes it clear there is a possibility of damage.

You accept that risk.

The book does get damaged.

The presser pays you for the damage (difference in value from 8.0 and 7.5) and waives the fees.

Sounds fair to me and I don't know why you even posted here.

 

[joeypost]

After a final inspection, the book was forwarded to CGC. Both the pressing and CGC fees reflected a 9.0 book.

 

 

 

See if you left this part in your opening post, I probably would have though a little different.

 

Nik, I was trying to get thoughts on a specific point. I never intended to bring Matt, CGC, or any terms of the settlement to the board. I didn't think they were pertinent, and I was doing my best to respect the other parties privacy.

 

Did you honestly expect to accomplish that in a public forum such as this one?

 

Having had multiple discussions with Matt, and never having him acknowledge the legitimacy of a claim on CGC, I was left with few options. CGC appropriately said I should work thru Matt. I chose Matt's services because of this Board. It seemed appropriate to ask my question here. My other options were legal or to walk away. What would you have done?

Repeating again. The book was submitted to CGC and priced as a 9.0. No expectation that it had to come back as such. Had it been destroyed in transit, a claim would surely be for a 9.0. Had the book been returned to me in as expected condition, and I had submitted to CGC. The damage would based on a 9.0 as well. My logic may be flawed, but there it is.

 

What does priced as a 9.0 mean? Was it under a specific tier or part of a 30 book submission value tier submission?

[Matt Nelson]

the thread originator answered every query, page after page, EXCEPT the two times he was asked about the results of the other pressed books. i had a suspicion then, and now it is confirmed. assuming those anonymous books above are good books, looks like he made out real fine.

Are you suggesting the end justifies the means? That isn't the point.

 

i'm suggesting it's curious those were the two questions that went unanswered.

 

Most importantly, I do not feel it has anything to do with the issue. This is a point Matt and I have discussed repeatedly. Second, the first individual who asked the question had just gotten off the phone with Matt and was privy to info the board was not. A response was not appropriate, although there were numerous more PMs. I don't recall who asked the second time, but it still wasn't pertinent, IMHO. I might point out that Matt said as much this morning. Unfortunately, this thread has become so long, that researching specific comments is next to impossible.

 

Would you have felt the same way about their relevance to this conversation had they all come back one or more points lower than my estimate?

[here to lern]

the thread originator answered every query, page after page, EXCEPT the two times he was asked about the results of the other pressed books. i had a suspicion then, and now it is confirmed. assuming those anonymous books above are good books, looks like he made out real fine.

Are you suggesting the end justifies the means? That isn't the point.

 

i'm suggesting it's curious those were the two questions that went unanswered.

That's because the information is irrelevant.

 

he answered many "irrelevant" questions with "but what does that have to do with it?" he didn't even touch those two. it is because once it was spilled, he would look greedy to the point of derision. and you know it, just as i do.

 

See post (somewhere) above for your answer

[Bosco685]

Would you have felt the same way about their relevance to this conversation had they all come back one or more points lower than my estimate?

[DrWatson]

the thread originator answered every query, page after page, EXCEPT the two times he was asked about the results of the other pressed books. i had a suspicion then, and now it is confirmed. assuming those anonymous books above are good books, looks like he made out real fine.

Are you suggesting the end justifies the means? That isn't the point.

 

i'm suggesting it's curious those were the two questions that went unanswered.

That's because the information is irrelevant.

 

he answered many "irrelevant" questions with "but what does that have to do with it?" he didn't even touch those two. it is because once it was spilled, he would look greedy to the point of derision. and you know it, just as i do.

Whether he is a greedy SOB or not doesn't negate the idea that he should he be entitled to a fair reimbursement on his damaged book. It's just like trying to paint a victim of sexual assault as "asking for it" because she had on a mini skirt and a tube top. Neither should have any reflection on the outcome of the case.

[Monstro]

I for one hope these books all you guys press dry up and fall apart with in 5 years.

[topofthetotem]

They won't

 

Pressing has been around for decades.

[NewWorldOrder]

Honestly? You took a gamble at trying to score big in having the book pressed; it turned out the results were not what you were hoping for. I mean, I'm not trying to sound unsympathetic... but you took a risk and it didn't pay off. That sucks, but it's part and parcel of the game I guess....

Mac,

what does that have to do with anything? That he took a chance on getting the book pressed and it got damaged is his fault? That logic doesnt hold water bro.

 

Arex,

 

Admittedly, my initial response isn't as clearly laid out as it should have been. My assumption is that the abrasion probably took place while opening up the case (as I can't think of any other reason why or how it might have happened). And again, my understanding is that the buyer takes the risk upon him/herself of having their book damaged when they have someone else open it up.

 

SO, it's not actually so much the act of pressing that I think he lost the gamble but having someone else open the case for him. Is that a little more clear?

 

I don't think if the book was damaged while removing the 8.0 CGC case the Presser would have continued to even bother to press the book.

[seanfingh]

Whether he is a greedy SOB or not doesn't negate the idea that he should he be entitled to a fair reimbursement on his damaged book. It's just like trying to paint a victim of sexual assault as "asking for it" because she had on a mini skirt and a tube top.

 

[insert graemlin that rolls its eyes and then explodes]

[here to lern]

Surprise, the presser is me. Joe emailed a couple of days ago informing me of his plans to post this to the boards. I told him he was free to use my name, and I'd be interested to hear what everybody thought.

 

When the Spidey #17 damage came to light several weeks ago, it was not until the book had been graded by CGC and returned to Joe. I didn't remember seeing the damage when I sent his books off. Yes, it's possible the book was damaged here. It's also possible it was damaged at CGC. Either way, Joe, myself and a rep at CGC had a discussion then, and I decided to reimburse Joe the difference between 7.5 and 8.0 value plus refund his pressing fee. He thought he should have gotten the value between 7.5 and 9.0.

 

After several more weeks (and the results of his last CGC invoice of pressed books) He emailed me Thursday with his plans to go to the boards. He tried again to argue his point about getting reimbursed up to 9.0, maybe to give me one more chance to "right" the situation so he would not come here. I stood my ground.

 

I'd like to add a couple of points to what is being said here. Yes, books get damaged here every once it a while. It's rare, though. Same is true at CGC, Heritage, Metro, and probably every other place that handles comic books. For me it's more precarious because I'm actually working on the books as opposed to just normal handling. But I take extreme care with the books I handle, and have designed my process over the years to minimize damage to as close to zero as possible.

 

I do have my disclaimer on the website that Joe, and everyone else who submits to me, acknowledged when he submitted the books.

 

One other point that I'd like to make--I realize that this point has nothing to do with the Spidey #17 situation in one regard, but in the big picture I think it is quite relevant. In Joe's order I pressed 29 books for him, with my estimates and the results below. I removed the titles and issues for his privacy:

 

book #1est. 9.0 grade 9.0 match

book #2 est. 9.0 grade 7.5 low

book #3 est. 7.5 grade 8.0 high

book #4 est. 9.0+ grade 9.0 match

book #5 est. 8.5+ grade 9.0 high

book #6 est. 7.0 grade 7.0 match

book #7 est. 9.0+ grade 9.0 match

book #8 est. 9.0+ grade 9.0 match

book #9 est. 9.4 grade 9.2 low

book #10 est. 8.5 grade 9.0 high

book #11 est. 8.0 grade 8.5 high

book #12 est. 9.2 grade 9.0 low

book #13 est. 9.0 grade 9.0 match

book #14 est. 9.4 grade 9.4 match

book #15 est. 9.0 grade 9.0 match

book #16 est. 9.4- grade 9.4 match

book #17 est. 9.4 grade 9.4 match

book #18 est. 9.6 grade 9.6 match

book #19 est 9.2 grade 9.2 match

book #20 est. 8.0 grade 8.5 high

book #21 est. 9.2 grade 9.0 low

book #22 est. 9.2 grade 9.2 match

book #23 est. 9.4 grade 9.6 high

book #24 est. 9.0 grade 9.4 high

book #25 est. 9.2 grade 9.4 high

book #26 est. 9.2 grade 9.4 high

book #27 est. 9.4- grade 9.2 low

book #28 est. 7.5 grade 8.0 high

book #29 est 8.0 grade 8.5 high

 

13 CGC grades matched my estimate, 10 graded one point higher than estimate, 1 graded 2 points higher, 4 graded one point lower than estimate, and finally the Spidey #17. This was a particularly good batch, a bit higher than usual.

 

Besides the fact that the pressings made Joe thousands of dollars, if I had adjusted the fees based on his results, he would have paid more for pressing. Of course I do not do this, but this was money he saved based on my conservative estimates.

 

The main reason I bring this up is to illustrate the mindset that one should have when pressing. You are taking a risk. Not all books work out. In fact, the more you do, the greater chance you're going to get a downgrade, whether it's CGC's grading that particular day, my proscreen being off, or even damage.

 

All of my long time clients know the risks involved, and every single one of them has lost money on a downgrade. But overall they are way ahead, and they don't hesitate for a second to use me. As shown above, Joe is way ahead right out the gate, but despite that he is still not willing to accept the risks involved with pressing. You can't win on every book every time. Net positive is the end goal.

 

Matt

 

 

 

Here is Matts response which seems most others on here agree is a fair one.

Here to lern doesn't want to seem to accept this and as some have said is being greedy by trying to get the 9.0 value

 

So my question is to "Here to Lern", Will you now accept this? after pages and pages of banter?

First, let me say that I don't really consider it any of your business. But, that doesn't seem to much matter. I sent an email to Matt this morning (before any of this got started) that I would forego any settlement. My basis was that based on opinions here that the book had been damaged in the pressing process. Therefore, CGC never received a 9.0. End of story.

[DrWatson]

I for one hope these books all you guys press dry up and fall apart with in 5 years.

Sweet, a new level of maturity has been brought to the thread.

[DrWatson]

Whether he is a greedy SOB or not doesn't negate the idea that he should he be entitled to a fair reimbursement on his damaged book. It's just like trying to paint a victim of sexual assault as "asking for it" because she had on a mini skirt and a tube top.

 

[insert graemlin that rolls its eyes and then explodes]

What? Too OTT? Come on man, it's Billy Parker.

[DarkKnightReturns]

Why bring this to the boards if you didn't want it public?

[here to lern]

After a final inspection, the book was forwarded to CGC. Both the pressing and CGC fees reflected a 9.0 book.

 

 

 

See if you left this part in your opening post, I probably would have though a little different.

 

Nik, I was trying to get thoughts on a specific point. I never intended to bring Matt, CGC, or any terms of the settlement to the board. I didn't think they were pertinent, and I was doing my best to respect the other parties privacy.

 

Did you honestly expect to accomplish that in a public forum such as this one?

 

Having had multiple discussions with Matt, and never having him acknowledge the legitimacy of a claim on CGC, I was left with few options. CGC appropriately said I should work thru Matt. I chose Matt's services because of this Board. It seemed appropriate to ask my question here. My other options were legal or to walk away. What would you have done?

Repeating again. The book was submitted to CGC and priced as a 9.0. No expectation that it had to come back as such. Had it been destroyed in transit, a claim would surely be for a 9.0. Had the book been returned to me in as expected condition, and I had submitted to CGC. The damage would based on a 9.0 as well. My logic may be flawed, but there it is.

 

What does priced as a 9.0 mean? Was it under a specific tier or part of a 30 book submission value tier submission?

 

It was submitted on the Express tier. The submission form shows $2000. Matt's fee were also for a book >$1000 (that would be a 9.0 min)

[Monstro]

They won't

 

Pressing has been around for decades.

 

 

yeah well now the same books are probably being pressed over and over by these greedy sob's and or collectors of grades, that maybe it will start happening