Looking for opinions

[Mr.Diggler]

I for one hope these books all you guys press dry up and fall apart with in 5 years.

 

I keep hoping the same thing about your board membership, but I guess we're both SOL.

 

Of course you do, I don't make you feel better about f-ing up the hobby.

 

 

Not really.

I'm reaching a tad. This thread has me in a vegetative state.

[COI]

Mr. Lern, you brought this on yourself.

 

Quote from Here to Lern 10/12/08

 

 

 

"I have absolutely no problem with anyone pressing or performing any other restoration on their own books. If you think it looks better that way, it's your book to do with as you please. The rub comes when you choose to sell it to someone else. As serious collectors or dealers you would be bound only by your own ethics to disclose any work done to the book. CGC has enabled a new layer of comfort in detection. But, it seems to me the concept that pressing should not be considered restoration, nor be revealed, simply because it is not always detectable, is reprehensible. It is merely self serving. Where did the ethics go? A dealer buys a book from a collector based on one grade, fully expecting to receive a higher grade after a minimal expense. Is that so different than fudging the grade in the first place?

What really chaps my is that I trusted CGC to protect me in grading. I paid a premium to purchase CGC graded books, and have paid a considerable amount to submit others. Now, I find out I should have pressed everything first. I just sold a book for $2k and after a press job and resubmit the owner is looking for $6500-7500. 7.5 to 9.0 for a press job! Bull. Some will say they are merely playing within the rules. Maybe so. I'm not angry with the buyer. But, the system needs fixing. If pressing can fix a defect, then a book shouldn't be graded down 1.5. And, as for disclosure, the fact that one dealer, or even CGC has said pressing is not resto doesn't make it so, nor give them the right to conceal the information from others who might. Its back to ethics."

 

[Mr.Diggler]

Mr. Lern, you brought this on yourself.

 

Quote from Here to Lern 10/12/08

 

 

 

"I have absolutely no problem with anyone pressing or performing any other restoration on their own books. If you think it looks better that way, it's your book to do with as you please. The rub comes when you choose to sell it to someone else. As serious collectors or dealers you would be bound only by your own ethics to disclose any work done to the book. CGC has enabled a new layer of comfort in detection. But, it seems to me the concept that pressing should not be considered restoration, nor be revealed, simply because it is not always detectable, is reprehensible. It is merely self serving. Where did the ethics go? A dealer buys a book from a collector based on one grade, fully expecting to receive a higher grade after a minimal expense. Is that so different than fudging the grade in the first place?

What really chaps my is that I trusted CGC to protect me in grading. I paid a premium to purchase CGC graded books, and have paid a considerable amount to submit others. Now, I find out I should have pressed everything first. I just sold a book for $2k and after a press job and resubmit the owner is looking for $6500-7500. 7.5 to 9.0 for a press job! Bull. Some will say they are merely playing within the rules. Maybe so. I'm not angry with the buyer. But, the system needs fixing. If pressing can fix a defect, then a book shouldn't be graded down 1.5. And, as for disclosure, the fact that one dealer, or even CGC has said pressing is not resto doesn't make it so, nor give them the right to conceal the information from others who might. Its back to ethics."

 

Nice.

[here to lern]

the thread originator answered every query, page after page, EXCEPT the two times he was asked about the results of the other pressed books. i had a suspicion then, and now it is confirmed. assuming those anonymous books above are good books, looks like he made out real fine.

Are you suggesting the end justifies the means? That isn't the point.

 

i'm suggesting it's curious those were the two questions that went unanswered.

 

Most importantly, I do not feel it has anything to do with the issue. This is a point Matt and I have discussed repeatedly. Second, the first individual who asked the question had just gotten off the phone with Matt and was privy to info the board was not. A response was not appropriate, although there were numerous more PMs. I don't recall who asked the second time, but it still wasn't pertinent, IMHO. I might point out that Matt said as much this morning. Unfortunately, this thread has become so long, that researching specific comments is next to impossible.

 

Would you have felt the same way about their relevance to this conversation had they all come back one or more points lower than my estimate?

 

Please answer this question, OP. I'm here to lern.

 

Joe,

 

I am suggesting you take the all the "FREE" money Matt just made you and chill out.

 

If I was in your situation I wouldn't have even cared about the mishap on one ASM book as it seems like you received a descent credit on the mistake.

 

If you made alot of money from this 29 book transaction do you really need to drag out a transaction for weeks on a book that not even rare? or a book you can repalce in 5 minutes?

 

The book went down by .5 of a grade, it seems to me that you should just sell the 7.5 and take that money, damage refunded fees, and all the "free" money and buy yourself a nice 9.0 and stop ranting about it.

 

IMO...I can even fathom how you would bring this up when you other results were very profitable. If this book was one of only like 3 books I would see your POV, not with 29 and Matt trying for weeks to help you out.

 

John

 

First, I walked away from any money this morning. Had nothing to do with all this. As for why, the answer is repeated several times above.

[Davenport]

 

Did you honestly expect to accomplish that in a public forum such as this one?

No, but I do have to commend Davenport for staying on topic. He has really impressed me by not pandering to the lowest common denominator unlike some of his contemporaries.

Wow. Between you and arexcrooke I'm getting...uncomfortable.

 

Just kidding. I have to say you're spot on with the irrelevance thing. If the crack out game were turning dollar bills into c-notes and the OP sent in 28 dollars, if he got back a whopping 27 hundred dollars, he's still out either a dollar bill or a c-note, depending on who goofed up what process.

 

And the OP has really impressed me by trying to respect both services, in spite of all the predictable boring mudslings. Got to give the man an "A" for effort, even if it's futile.

[Straw-Man]

Whether he is a greedy SOB or not doesn't negate the idea that he should he be entitled to a fair reimbursement on his damaged book. It's just like trying to paint a victim of sexual assault as "asking for it" because she had on a mini skirt and a tube top.

 

[insert graemlin that rolls its eyes and then explodes]

What? Too OTT? Come on man, it's Billy Parker.

 

I haven't had the pleasure of meeting Billy, yet. Although I did hear that he was a weenie.

 

that's mr. weenie to you, boy.

[Straw-Man]

the thread originator answered every query, page after page, EXCEPT the two times he was asked about the results of the other pressed books. i had a suspicion then, and now it is confirmed. assuming those anonymous books above are good books, looks like he made out real fine.

Are you suggesting the end justifies the means? That isn't the point.

 

i'm suggesting it's curious those were the two questions that went unanswered.

 

Most importantly, I do not feel it has anything to do with the issue. This is a point Matt and I have discussed repeatedly. Second, the first individual who asked the question had just gotten off the phone with Matt and was privy to info the board was not. A response was not appropriate, although there were numerous more PMs. I don't recall who asked the second time, but it still wasn't pertinent, IMHO. I might point out that Matt said as much this morning. Unfortunately, this thread has become so long, that researching specific comments is next to impossible.

 

Would you have felt the same way about their relevance to this conversation had they all come back one or more points lower than my estimate?

 

Please answer this question, OP. I'm here to lern.

 

Joe,

 

I am suggesting you take the all the "FREE" money Matt just made you and chill out.

 

If I was in your situation I wouldn't have even cared about the mishap on one ASM book as it seems like you received a descent credit on the mistake.

 

If you made alot of money from this 29 book transaction do you really need to drag out a transaction for weeks on a book that not even rare? or a book you can repalce in 5 minutes?

 

The book went down by .5 of a grade, it seems to me that you should just sell the 7.5 and take that money, damage refunded fees, and all the "free" money and buy yourself a nice 9.0 and stop ranting about it.

 

IMO...I can even fathom how you would bring this up when you other results were very profitable. If this book was one of only like 3 books I would see your POV, not with 29 and Matt trying for weeks to help you out.

 

John

 

i was waiting for the post i could finally say "EXACTLY" about. thanks, sir.

[icefires]

the thread originator answered every query, page after page, EXCEPT the two times he was asked about the results of the other pressed books. i had a suspicion then, and now it is confirmed. assuming those anonymous books above are good books, looks like he made out real fine.

Are you suggesting the end justifies the means? That isn't the point.

 

i'm suggesting it's curious those were the two questions that went unanswered.

 

Most importantly, I do not feel it has anything to do with the issue. This is a point Matt and I have discussed repeatedly. Second, the first individual who asked the question had just gotten off the phone with Matt and was privy to info the board was not. A response was not appropriate, although there were numerous more PMs. I don't recall who asked the second time, but it still wasn't pertinent, IMHO. I might point out that Matt said as much this morning. Unfortunately, this thread has become so long, that researching specific comments is next to impossible.

 

Would you have felt the same way about their relevance to this conversation had they all come back one or more points lower than my estimate?

 

Please answer this question, OP. I'm here to lern.

 

Joe,

 

I am suggesting you take the all the "FREE" money Matt just made you and chill out.

 

If I was in your situation I wouldn't have even cared about the mishap on one ASM book as it seems like you received a descent credit on the mistake.

 

If you made alot of money from this 29 book transaction do you really need to drag out a transaction for weeks on a book that not even rare? or a book you can repalce in 5 minutes?

 

The book went down by .5 of a grade, it seems to me that you should just sell the 7.5 and take that money, damage refunded fees, and all the "free" money and buy yourself a nice 9.0 and stop ranting about it.

 

IMO...I can even fathom how you would bring this up when you other results were very profitable. If this book was one of only like 3 books I would see your POV, not with 29 and Matt trying for weeks to help you out.

 

John

 

+1

[ciorac]

You sent a book to be pressed.

The presser makes it clear there is a possibility of damage.

You accept that risk.

The book does get damaged.

The presser pays you for the damage (difference in value from 8.0 and 7.5) and waives the fees.

Sounds fair to me and I don't know why you even posted here.

 

[here to lern]

Mr. Lern, you brought this on yourself.

 

Quote from Here to Lern 10/12/08

 

 

 

"I have absolutely no problem with anyone pressing or performing any other restoration on their own books. If you think it looks better that way, it's your book to do with as you please. The rub comes when you choose to sell it to someone else. As serious collectors or dealers you would be bound only by your own ethics to disclose any work done to the book. CGC has enabled a new layer of comfort in detection. But, it seems to me the concept that pressing should not be considered restoration, nor be revealed, simply because it is not always detectable, is reprehensible. It is merely self serving. Where did the ethics go? A dealer buys a book from a collector based on one grade, fully expecting to receive a higher grade after a minimal expense. Is that so different than fudging the grade in the first place?

What really chaps my is that I trusted CGC to protect me in grading. I paid a premium to purchase CGC graded books, and have paid a considerable amount to submit others. Now, I find out I should have pressed everything first. I just sold a book for $2k and after a press job and resubmit the owner is looking for $6500-7500. 7.5 to 9.0 for a press job! Bull. Some will say they are merely playing within the rules. Maybe so. I'm not angry with the buyer. But, the system needs fixing. If pressing can fix a defect, then a book shouldn't be graded down 1.5. And, as for disclosure, the fact that one dealer, or even CGC has said pressing is not resto doesn't make it so, nor give them the right to conceal the information from others who might. Its back to ethics."

 

Guilty as charged. I joined this board last year to facilitate the sale of my OO collection. I had never heard of pressing. I hadn't bought a book in 10+ years. After months of listening here I realized my ethics are irrelevant. I think it was when a NOD member bought one of my slabs and it showed up a few weeks later with a new cert and a 3 point bump. When in Rome....

But, I'm not sure how that applies here

[whisp]

I am going to press all my Moon Knight books and make $1000's muahhahaahahahah.

[NewWorldOrder]

the thread originator answered every query, page after page, EXCEPT the two times he was asked about the results of the other pressed books. i had a suspicion then, and now it is confirmed. assuming those anonymous books above are good books, looks like he made out real fine.

Are you suggesting the end justifies the means? That isn't the point.

 

i'm suggesting it's curious those were the two questions that went unanswered.

 

Most importantly, I do not feel it has anything to do with the issue. This is a point Matt and I have discussed repeatedly. Second, the first individual who asked the question had just gotten off the phone with Matt and was privy to info the board was not. A response was not appropriate, although there were numerous more PMs. I don't recall who asked the second time, but it still wasn't pertinent, IMHO. I might point out that Matt said as much this morning. Unfortunately, this thread has become so long, that researching specific comments is next to impossible.

 

No Problem. (thumbs u

Would you have felt the same way about their relevance to this conversation had they all come back one or more points lower than my estimate?

 

Please answer this question, OP. I'm here to lern.

 

Joe,

 

I am suggesting you take the all the "FREE" money Matt just made you and chill out.

 

If I was in your situation I wouldn't have even cared about the mishap on one ASM book as it seems like you received a descent credit on the mistake.

 

If you made alot of money from this 29 book transaction do you really need to drag out a transaction for weeks on a book that not even rare? or a book you can repalce in 5 minutes?

 

The book went down by .5 of a grade, it seems to me that you should just sell the 7.5 and take that money, damage refunded fees, and all the "free" money and buy yourself a nice 9.0 and stop ranting about it.

 

IMO...I can even fathom how you would bring this up when you other results were very profitable. If this book was one of only like 3 books I would see your POV, not with 29 and Matt trying for weeks to help you out.

 

John

 

i was waiting for the post i could finally say "EXACTLY" about. thanks, sir.

 

No Problem (thumbs u

 

 

[MCMiles]

I for one hope these books all you guys press dry up and fall apart with in 5 years.

 

I keep hoping the same thing about your board membership, but I guess we're both SOL.

 

Of course you do, I don't make you feel better about f-ing up the hobby.

 

 

[NewWorldOrder]

I for one hope these books all you guys press dry up and fall apart with in 5 years.

 

I keep hoping the same thing about your board membership, but I guess we're both SOL.

 

Of course you do, I don't make you feel better about f-ing up the hobby.

 

 

 

You are right Monstro me and other collectors who press books sometimes should be burned at the stake.

[Foolkiller]

I'm not anti pressing as you all know, but I am a little sad that things have evolved in the relatively short time that I've been a serious vintage buyer to being mostly about how high a grade a book can achieve and "potentializing" a book. I don't begrudge or vilify those who do, but it doesn't stop me from feeling sad about why we collect comics anymore and what is to love about them.

[namisgr]

I'm not anti pressing as you all know, but I am a little sad that things have evolved in the relatively short time that I've been a serious vintage buyer to being mostly about how high a grade a book can achieve and "potentializing" a book. I don't begrudge or vilify those who do, but it doesn't stop me from feeling sad about why we collect comics anymore and what is to love about them.

 

Time to step aside, old tymer, so that progress doesn't run you over.

[DrWatson]

Back on track just a little, I still think the damage looks like something that would have happened at CGC while the books where being unpacked.

 

I really don't see Matt sending the book to CGC in that condition.

[Matt Nelson]

I'm not anti pressing as you all know, but I am a little sad that things have evolved in the relatively short time that I've been a serious vintage buyer to being mostly about how high a grade a book can achieve and "potentializing" a book. I don't begrudge or vilify those who do, but it doesn't stop me from feeling sad about why we collect comics anymore and what is to love about them.

 

Don't confuse the collector mentality with the investor mentality! In all honesty, people have been trying to improve their comics in some form or fashion since they were worth more than cover price. Blame it on money if you will, but pressing this decade was not the start of it. True for all other hobbies as well, I'd imagine.

[here to lern]

Forgive me for bailing, but I have too many other things to do. Feel free to PM.

Joe

[faster friends]

Back on track just a little, I still think the damage looks like something that would have happened at CGC while the books where being unpacked.

 

I really don't see Matt sending the book to CGC in that condition.

 

Not an excuse for Matt, But He does have employees.