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PROBATION DISCUSSIONS
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Started by alwaysbronze,

36,203 posts in this topic

comix4fun

comix4fun

Posted
Posted
I can barely see it on the back cover, its quite big actually. Goes into the green of the ad and starts at the bottom corner.

 

Can't see a thing on the inside back at all.... hm

 

That's not the stain. Graders note - "Right Bottom Back Cover Lite Smear"

 

AHHH k... sorry, I have NO experience with grading, just stating what I can see lol

 

That's OK, obviously I don't either :ohnoez:

 

 

I would have missed that unless I knew there was a stain and I was looking for it.

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Bio-Rupp

Bio-Rupp

Posted
Posted (edited)

Well Dan just stated that the larger "oval" was the smudge... which makes sense since there is nothing showing on the interior cover at that height.

 

So possibly they are just talking about the entire 1/4 inch bottom spine corner ?

 

Plus thanks to Chris for taking the time... ;)

 

 

Edited by Bio-Rupp
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comix4fun

comix4fun

Posted
Posted
Well Dan just stated that the larger "oval" was the smudge... which makes sense since there is nothing showing on the interior cover at that height.

 

So possibly they are just talking about the entire 1/4 inch bottom spine corner ?

 

 

 

Must be.

 

The coloring of the stain on the back cover is certainly different than the smudging and the smudging isn't visible at all inside.

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HarveySwick

HarveySwick

Posted
Posted
I can barely see it on the back cover, its quite big actually. Goes into the green of the ad and starts at the bottom corner.

 

Can't see a thing on the inside back at all.... hm

 

That's not the stain. Graders note - "Right Bottom Back Cover Lite Smear"

I thought it was mentioned somewhere that the stain bled through the entire book? ???

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comix4fun

comix4fun

Posted
Posted
Well Dan just stated that the larger "oval" was the smudge... which makes sense since there is nothing showing on the interior cover at that height.

 

So possibly they are just talking about the entire 1/4 inch bottom spine corner ?

 

Plus thanks to Chris for taking the time... ;)

 

 

 

You've exposed my inability to draw circles in photoshop....it looks like a toddler drew it. :frustrated:

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crassus

crassus

Posted
Posted
Both are somewhat misrepresentations to the buyer though?

 

The seller, who has the book IN HAND and can look at it closely, is saying that it doesn't appear to be a stain. The buyer, who is ONLY going on the pictures/scans/seller's word has no opportunity to examine the book in hand. (shrug)

 

If that was the end of it, I would easily side with the buyer. BUT Bob wanted out of hte deal before getting the grader's notes, so in that regard > I begin to take the seller's side.

 

It's really a tough call and I need Bob's argument.

 

That's the thing... I DIDNT have the book in hand. It was in transit from Florida. If I had it in hand, I would have taken and posted a pic and answered the question the best I could

 

Here is something I never understand. Why are things being sold before they are in hand?

 

If we were going to vote on rules, that would be my number one pick. No selling until you have the item in front of you.

 

 

I just never understand the rush.

 

I'd like to hear from Bob, but I have a question Dan. You said he offered to pay full price, if I'm reading correctly you didn't accept his offer because you thought the part trade/cash was a better deal for you. However you listed it as a cash deal. If you had accepted the cash, and then when it arrived, he didn't like the fact the book had a stain (not a light shadow), what would you have done?

 

 

As I understand the narrative, even if he had waited until the book returned from CGC, it was slabbed, he would have to crack it out to verify the extent of interior staining. The pics taken before submission were the only evidence of the condition of the interior, and I must say cast doubt on the accuracy of the CGC notes.

 

 

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Bio-Rupp

Bio-Rupp

Posted
Posted
Well Dan just stated that the larger "oval" was the smudge... which makes sense since there is nothing showing on the interior cover at that height.

 

So possibly they are just talking about the entire 1/4 inch bottom spine corner ?

 

Plus thanks to Chris for taking the time... ;)

 

 

 

You've exposed my inability to draw circles in photoshop....it looks like a toddler drew it. :frustrated:

 

Don't feel too bad about it... I destroyed this entire section of the boards yesterday with a misplaced " / "

 

:facepalm:

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mikenyc

mikenyc

Posted
Posted
Well Dan just stated that the larger "oval" was the smudge... which makes sense since there is nothing showing on the interior cover at that height.

 

So possibly they are just talking about the entire 1/4 inch bottom spine corner ?

 

Plus thanks to Chris for taking the time... ;)

 

 

 

You've exposed my inability to draw circles in photoshop....it looks like a toddler drew it. :frustrated:

 

:lol:

 

You know I love you so I didn't want to point out that my daughter could rock you on photoshop and she's in Pre-K.

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comix4fun

comix4fun

Posted
Posted
Well Dan just stated that the larger "oval" was the smudge... which makes sense since there is nothing showing on the interior cover at that height.

 

So possibly they are just talking about the entire 1/4 inch bottom spine corner ?

 

Plus thanks to Chris for taking the time... ;)

 

 

 

You've exposed my inability to draw circles in photoshop....it looks like a toddler drew it. :frustrated:

 

:lol:

 

You know I love you so I didn't want to point out that my daughter could rock you on photoshop and she's in Pre-K.

 

 

I was seconds away from asking my 10 year old create those circles for me.

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MetalPSI

MetalPSI

Posted
Posted

Yeah...you'd really have to be looking for it in order to see it.

 

I have had bordies bring things to my attention when doing a grade check that I didn't see when it was in my hand. Even went back to check it out again and took some time before I could really see it.

 

I guess it goes to show the graders are doing their job and well

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slym2none

slym2none

Posted
Posted
Well Dan just stated that the larger "oval" was the smudge... which makes sense since there is nothing showing on the interior cover at that height.

 

So possibly they are just talking about the entire 1/4 inch bottom spine corner ?

 

Plus thanks to Chris for taking the time... ;)

 

 

 

You've exposed my inability to draw circles in photoshop....it looks like a toddler drew it. :frustrated:

 

:lol:

 

You know I love you so I didn't want to point out that my daughter could rock you on photoshop and she's in Pre-K.

 

 

I was seconds away from asking my 10 year old create those circles for me.

 

There isn't a tool to make boxes, circles, etc.? Even MSPaint has that...

 

:P :lol: ;)

 

 

 

-slym

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Bio-Rupp

Bio-Rupp

Posted
Posted
Well Dan just stated that the larger "oval" was the smudge... which makes sense since there is nothing showing on the interior cover at that height.

 

So possibly they are just talking about the entire 1/4 inch bottom spine corner ?

 

Plus thanks to Chris for taking the time... ;)

 

 

 

You've exposed my inability to draw circles in photoshop....it looks like a toddler drew it. :frustrated:

 

:lol:

 

You know I love you so I didn't want to point out that my daughter could rock you on photoshop and she's in Pre-K.

 

 

I was seconds away from asking my 10 year old create those circles for me.

 

It's harder than you think... :o

 

pizapcom1068287563277408481390962182511_zps5999eee7.jpg

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djpinkpanther67

djpinkpanther67

Posted
Posted

What I was implying is maybe they detected the stain throughout the book with a black light or some other light that can detect stains. Not everyone has one of those. I for one don't :shrug:

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Speedy-D

Speedy-D

Posted
Posted
Well Dan just stated that the larger "oval" was the smudge... which makes sense since there is nothing showing on the interior cover at that height.

 

So possibly they are just talking about the entire 1/4 inch bottom spine corner ?

 

Plus thanks to Chris for taking the time... ;)

 

 

 

You've exposed my inability to draw circles in photoshop....it looks like a toddler drew it. :frustrated:

 

:lol:

 

You know I love you so I didn't want to point out that my daughter could rock you on photoshop and she's in Pre-K.

 

 

I was seconds away from asking my 10 year old create those circles for me.

 

It's harder than you think... :o

 

pizapcom1068287563277408481390962182511_zps5999eee7.jpg

lol

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comix4fun

comix4fun

Posted
Posted
Well Dan just stated that the larger "oval" was the smudge... which makes sense since there is nothing showing on the interior cover at that height.

 

So possibly they are just talking about the entire 1/4 inch bottom spine corner ?

 

Plus thanks to Chris for taking the time... ;)

 

 

 

You've exposed my inability to draw circles in photoshop....it looks like a toddler drew it. :frustrated:

 

:lol:

 

You know I love you so I didn't want to point out that my daughter could rock you on photoshop and she's in Pre-K.

 

 

I was seconds away from asking my 10 year old create those circles for me.

 

There isn't a tool to make boxes, circles, etc.? Even MSPaint has that...

 

:P :lol: ;)

 

 

 

-slym

 

 

I looked for, like, 30 seconds before saying "screw it" and grabbed that brush tool.

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skypinkblu

skypinkblu

Posted
Posted
Both are somewhat misrepresentations to the buyer though?

 

The seller, who has the book IN HAND and can look at it closely, is saying that it doesn't appear to be a stain. The buyer, who is ONLY going on the pictures/scans/seller's word has no opportunity to examine the book in hand. (shrug)

 

If that was the end of it, I would easily side with the buyer. BUT Bob wanted out of hte deal before getting the grader's notes, so in that regard > I begin to take the seller's side.

 

It's really a tough call and I need Bob's argument.

 

That's the thing... I DIDNT have the book in hand. It was in transit from Florida. If I had it in hand, I would have taken and posted a pic and answered the question the best I could

 

Here is something I never understand. Why are things being sold before they are in hand?

 

If we were going to vote on rules, that would be my number one pick. No selling until you have the item in front of you.

 

 

I just never understand the rush.

 

I'd like to hear from Bob, but I have a question Dan. You said he offered to pay full price, if I'm reading correctly you didn't accept his offer because you thought the part trade/cash was a better deal for you. However you listed it as a cash deal. If you had accepted the cash, and then when it arrived, he didn't like the fact the book had a stain (not a light shadow), what would you have done?

 

 

As I understand the narrative, even if he had waited until the book returned from CGC, it was slabbed, he would have to crack it out to verify the extent of interior staining. The pics taken before submission were the only evidence of the condition of the interior, and I must say cast doubt on the accuracy of the CGC notes.

 

 

The way I'm reading his response, Robert...is that he was trying to time the market.

 

 

While I agree with not selling before in hand, which I rarely do, in this case if the one in the CL January auction would have finished well below GPA (which it finished almost $1600 below) that would have affected the value of this one. Of course if it would have finished higher, it would have been in my favor. That's my reasoning for putting it up before having it in hand. As far as the other question, I cant answer that, because that's not what happened.

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Bomber-Bob

Bomber-Bob

Posted
Posted

Greetings all. Here's my side of the story. While what Dan says is technically true, some was taken out of context or embellished a little. Here is my view.

- I am collector, not a flipper. I wanted this book for my personal collection. I offered Dan a cash/trade deal and he took it.

- I immediately went to my Bank Vault and got the trade books. I had the books all packaged and ready to go. If Dan had the book ready to go, the deal would have been completed. While waiting day after day for the book to arrive from CGC, I started thinking too much and was feeling remorse about getting rid of one specific book in the trade, never about the trade as a whole.

- This is important. My attempts to alter the deal were never with intent to back out. Here's my preface to my first 'new' offer...

'Dan, I've got an idea that you might like regarding our deal.....

- First, the deal as structured is fine with me, no problems, I just think you may like this better = more cash.'

Here is my preface of a second offer....

'Dan, just thinking out loud here. Unfortunately, the delay in the execution of the transaction has me thinking too much. If I were to simply offer to pay the full cash amount for the book, and eliminate the trade portion, would you consider this a renege on the deal ? Just to be clear, the full 16K with no fees. '

Dan declined my cash offer and I responded with this....

'Is there any other ideas out there that can satisfy us both = another book that can take the place of the FF1 ? '.

 

Does the above sound like I was trying to back out completely ? I assure I was not.

 

The book arrives from CGC and Dan asks me if he can simply throw a label on the package and send it to me without opening it. I said I would like to see some pics of the book in the slab. Remember, all previous pics were raw. Dan sent me two pics.

- Upon looking at the pics I can see that the bottom corner, in a different 'light' is still there and looks like a stain to me. Dan already stated in the sales thread he thought it was just the light. I called for the notes, remember this is the first time I had a cert number. When I saw the 'whole book stain' note I contacted Dan with the following...

'Dan, here's the deal, that bottom right corner of the back cover looks like a stain. When asked about it in your sales thread you said it was just an odd light. Now that I know the cert number I just sent for notes.It is a book length stain. That's a killer flaw. Many would consider this book overgraded.'

Dan then replied that he only said he thought' it was the light.

I replied......

'Dan, yes, that is what you said. I didn't ask anymore about it because I assumed you were correct. However, it was really pronounced in the slab pic, hence I got the notes. All the history aside, now that we know it's a stain, IMO it's still a desirable book but not worthy of a 16K price.'

Dan replied ..................

So I guess you have 3 options

 

1 - The original cash/trade deal

 

2 - 16K cash

 

3 - Back out of the deal completely

 

Please LMK asap, as I may have to explore other selling avenues'

 

I replied that I will back out.

Remember Dan portrayed this book in the sales thread as an undergraded, never been pressed, no stain just funny light book.

I found out otherwise. I never tried to back out of the deal, just alter it.

Thanks for listening.

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