PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[Bosco685]

As far as Frankenstein - he is accused of de-slabbing a book, having it pressed and dry cleaned and offering it raw at a higher grade. Now here is the thing. CGC does not penalize for dry cleaning or pressing. There is certainly controversy about pressing and dry cleaning but CGC does not recognize (penalize) for it. How many people here have trashed NOD? Tons. Well one of NOD's biggest shtick was insuring all members disclose any alterations they knew of, including pressing and dry cleaning. Now many here sound like former NOD members.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the book had already been pressed before slabbing - so Frank merely cracked the case, upped the grade and digitally manipulated the back cover scan to make the book look whiter ...

[PovertyRow]

Not referencing you, Bosco.

 

My Sicilian brother.

 

Speaking oif Sicilian, I am watching the quirky cool film THINGS CHANGE as I type. Netflix finally put it up on Instant!

[PovertyRow]

As far as Frankenstein - he is accused of de-slabbing a book, having it pressed and dry cleaned and offering it raw at a higher grade. Now here is the thing. CGC does not penalize for dry cleaning or pressing. There is certainly controversy about pressing and dry cleaning but CGC does not recognize (penalize) for it. How many people here have trashed NOD? Tons. Well one of NOD's biggest shtick was insuring all members disclose any alterations they knew of, including pressing and dry cleaning. Now many here sound like former NOD members.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the book had already been pressed before slabbing - so Frank merely cracked the case, upped the grade and digitally manipulated the back cover scan to make the book look whiter ...

 

I seek truth. Was the book pressed pre or post slabbing? Was the back dry cleaned and if so before or after? Was it digitally manipulated? Who can actually confirm this? It DOES make a diff. (I thought I had read through all of the Frank posts).

[Speedy-D]

I believe it was pressed before DF got his mitts on it. And I don't think we ever got an answer about digital manipulation vs. cleaning of the back cover.

[mschmidt]

As far as Frankenstein - he is accused of de-slabbing a book, having it pressed and dry cleaned and offering it raw at a higher grade. Now here is the thing. CGC does not penalize for dry cleaning or pressing. There is certainly controversy about pressing and dry cleaning but CGC does not recognize (penalize) for it. How many people here have trashed NOD? Tons. Well one of NOD's biggest shtick was insuring all members disclose any alterations they knew of, including pressing and dry cleaning. Now many here sound like former NOD members.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the book had already been pressed before slabbing - so Frank merely cracked the case, upped the grade and digitally manipulated the back cover scan to make the book look whiter ...

 

I seek truth. Was the book pressed pre or post slabbing? Was the back dry cleaned and if so before or after? Was it digitally manipulated? Who can actually confirm this? It DOES make a diff. (I thought I had read through all of the Frank posts).

 

Kryptospidey said in his first post that the book was pressed prior to slabbing.

 

People started discussing dry-cleaning because krypto put up a scan of the back cover (prior to slabbing) which was darker & dirtier than the back cover scan used by Frankenstein - after a while the matter of digital manipulation was brought up and BrianR posted pictures of an ASM that had been altered by Frank:

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showthreaded&Number=3956712

 

But the only one that knows for sure is Frankenstein. And he, of course, denies any wrong-doing.

[PovertyRow]

I believe it was pressed before DF got his mitts on it. And I don't think we ever got an answer about digital manipulation vs. cleaning of the back cover.

 

MsSchmidt says "Correct me if I am wrong." regarding the pre/post slab pressing.

 

See this is the thing. Do you know it was pressed prior to it being slabbed? And I am by no means defending Frankenstein. The HOS and the Prob List are excellent resources here and to remain so they must be truly credible. And if there are rules they must be followed. And if it appears the rules need altering or tuning they should be altered or tuned.

 

But, and it is a big but, if the rules do not preclude certain things, then making new inclusions retroactive is something I would not agree with.

 

The grey area is a definite possibility but needs some real discussion well beyond what has been discussed here.

[mschmidt]

I believe it was pressed before DF got his mitts on it. And I don't think we ever got an answer about digital manipulation vs. cleaning of the back cover.

 

MsSchmidt says "Correct me if I am wrong." regarding the pre/post slab pressing.

 

See this is the thing. Do you know it was pressed prior to it being slabbed?

 

Yes, kryptospidey said so in his very first post:

 

I'm really sad to see stuff like this going on in the forum sales area,especially when it's tied to a book i sold here on the boards with full disclosure as PRESSED and sold as a CGC graded 8.5.

Now the book,"RAW" was being offered as a 9.2,no mention of it being previously slabbed,pressed,and now with a "cleaned" back cover.

And here's a link to the sales thread where he discloses the book has been pressed:

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3887119&fpart=1

[PovertyRow]

I believe it was pressed before DF got his mitts on it. And I don't think we ever got an answer about digital manipulation vs. cleaning of the back cover.

 

MsSchmidt says "Correct me if I am wrong." regarding the pre/post slab pressing.

 

See this is the thing. Do you know it was pressed prior to it being slabbed?

 

Yes, kryptospidey said so in his very first post:

 

I'm really sad to see stuff like this going on in the forum sales area,especially when it's tied to a book i sold here on the boards with full disclosure as PRESSED and sold as a CGC graded 8.5.

Now the book,"RAW" was being offered as a 9.2,no mention of it being previously slabbed,pressed,and now with a "cleaned" back cover.

And here's a link to the sales thread where he discloses the book has been pressed:

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3887119&fpart=1

 

Thanks. It was so far back I forgot that part. In re-reading I do remember it.

 

We still need to deal with the back cover - manipulated or cleaned?

 

So the question is how is this to be dealt with? Just take the known factor: the book was pressed, disclosed as pressed on the boards, bought on the boards, and re-posted in Forum Selling without disclosing anything.

 

Should we now include in a set of rules that non-disclosure, including pressing and dry cleaning (two things not recognized by CGC as defects) will get someone on the list, or on a currently non-existent other list?

 

Again I am not defending Frank's actions. I am saying there are realities to deal with if the lists are going to be altered or modified as time goes by and as various situations present themselves.

[Silver Surfer]

Doc Frank should be in the HOS for the dirty dealing you spoke of, but even more so for the attempted cover up, failed lies, and repeated verbal abuse. If the rules preclude inclusion for that type of behavior, maybe they should amended.

 

The constant classless verbal attacks is what bothers me the most. Clearly he has shown a disturbing pattern of malicious denial even when caught red handed.

[NewEnglandGothic]

Didn't want to have to do this, Nick ... but you've left me no choice.

[Speedy-D]

I believe it was pressed before DF got his mitts on it. And I don't think we ever got an answer about digital manipulation vs. cleaning of the back cover.

 

MsSchmidt says "Correct me if I am wrong." regarding the pre/post slab pressing.

 

See this is the thing. Do you know it was pressed prior to it being slabbed?

 

Yes, kryptospidey said so in his very first post:

 

I'm really sad to see stuff like this going on in the forum sales area,especially when it's tied to a book i sold here on the boards with full disclosure as PRESSED and sold as a CGC graded 8.5.

Now the book,"RAW" was being offered as a 9.2,no mention of it being previously slabbed,pressed,and now with a "cleaned" back cover.

And here's a link to the sales thread where he discloses the book has been pressed:

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3887119&fpart=1

 

Thanks. It was so far back I forgot that part. In re-reading I do remember it.

 

We still need to deal with the back cover - manipulated or cleaned?

 

So the question is how is this to be dealt with? Just take the known factor: the book was pressed, disclosed as pressed on the boards, bought on the boards, and re-posted in Forum Selling without disclosing anything.

 

Should we now include in a set of rules that non-disclosure, including pressing and dry cleaning (two things not recognized by CGC as defects) will get someone on the list, or on a currently non-existent other list?

 

Again I am not defending Frank's actions. I am saying there are realities to deal with if the lists are going to be altered or modified as time goes by and as various situations present themselves.

You keep focusing on the non-disclosure, but there's more to it. I care a lot more about the voluminous lies, insulting disdain, and verbal attacks than the possibility that he had a comic cleaned. The guy has zero class and is a liability. It's not a technicality, and I don't think it starts anyone down any slippery slopes. We're a community and I'd say we're free to deal with his kind of grossly unwarranted behavior.

 

The bottom line is he's here to get over on us however he can. He's shown time and again that he has no respect for anyone, doesn't care about the folks here, and will pull his lameness again.

[Bosco685]

The bottom line is he's here to get over on us however he can. He's shown time and again that he has no respect for anyone, doesn't care about the folks here, and will pull his lameness again.

That's what's really bothering me. His actions show it is all about the sales, and not about relationships.

 

Sad, but true.

[skypinkblu]

The bottom line is he's here to get over on us however he can. He's shown time and again that he has no respect for anyone, doesn't care about the folks here, and will pull his lameness again.

That's what's really bothering me. His actions show it is all about the sales, and not about relationships.

 

Sad, but true.

 

There are lots of people (unfortunately) just here for sales, you can go to the marketplace and pull up any number of sellers and when you look at started topics, it's sale sale sale sale. However, I agree with Speedy. This is someone who basically thinks all the other members are insufficiently_thoughtful_persons, and he's looking to make a profit by trying to take ad vantage. People like him are easily fooled into to thinking kindness is stupidity and the way to get past being caught is to yell and scream and stamp your foot and threaten.

[Speedy-D]

So it sounds like yannis is off the hook then? I still don't really know what to make of that situation.

[8milemax]

I have sold to Frank a couple of times, and never had any problems, but what he did was wrong and he acted Immature when caught . Should he be on list list What bothers me about the vote is that if someone doesn't like someone he could try to get that person voted in for no reason. Have to be careful about that.

[8milemax]

So it sounds like yannis is off the hook then? I still don't really know what to make of that situation.

Thats sad IMO. Yannis is more guilty that Frank IMO, but he has nice books and people don't want him on the list because of that.

[mschmidt]

I have sold to Frank a couple of times, and never had any problems, but what he did was wrong and he acted Immature when caught . Should he be on list list What bothers me about the vote is that if someone doesn't like someone he could try to get that person voted in for no reason. Have to be careful about that.

 

That's a bit of a giant leap of logic, though - it's not "someone" who doesn't like Frank who's trying to get him on the list; it's 60+ board members who are doing so and for very good reason.

[8milemax]

I have sold to Frank a couple of times, and never had any problems, but what he did was wrong and he acted Immature when caught . Should he be on list list What bothers me about the vote is that if someone doesn't like someone he could try to get that person voted in for no reason. Have to be careful about that.

 

That's a bit of a giant leap of logic, though - it's not "someone" who doesn't like Frank who's trying to get him on the list; it's 60+ board members who are doing so and for very good reason.

Why hasn't there been a vote about yannis then? He acted horribly also.

[mschmidt]

I have sold to Frank a couple of times, and never had any problems, but what he did was wrong and he acted Immature when caught . Should he be on list list What bothers me about the vote is that if someone doesn't like someone he could try to get that person voted in for no reason. Have to be careful about that.

 

That's a bit of a giant leap of logic, though - it's not "someone" who doesn't like Frank who's trying to get him on the list; it's 60+ board members who are doing so and for very good reason.

Why hasn't there been a vote about yannis then? He acted horribly also.

 

Because, like it's been said numerous times, there's a specific wronged party in that transaction - and it's up to that person to decide whether Yannis goes on the probation list or not.

 

I know you want to draw parallels between these two situations, but they're really not the same ... Yannis reneged on a deal, apologized publicly & seems to be making it up to the buyer. Frank was caught trying to pass off a book as something it wasn't, responded with a web of lies & convoluted cover stories, and continued with threats of physical violence & litigation - and it's not the first time he's done this either.

[8milemax]

This is a vote about yannis on the major transaction thread. Looking at the results on the probation thread vote I can see how quick people forget.