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VALPARAISO SPIDEY 55 9.8................SOLD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Started by drdonaldblake,

272 posts in this topic

mschmidt

mschmidt

Posted
Posted
Just went back and looked at the book...the middle spine transverse tick is actually in hand super-miniscule and you have to tilt and tilt the book to even begin to think that it's actually a mark...there is actually a more readily discernable super slight JBC 1/16" tick near the bottom staple...again, most people wouldn't even see it let alone comment on it unless the book was being put forth as an uber copy...the real "problem" is about 3 or 4 little dots of color loss at the very top of the spine that, again, if someone were just selling this book raw might not even be worth a mention...it's even a bit so subtle as to perhaps be wondered if it weren't somewhat production related...

 

Having said that, it still in my mind begets an interesting discussion. I think, given the opportunity, 9 out of 10 avid ASM collectors holding both these books in hand pick my book...it's just nicer looking and therefore a NICER book...the dots I refer to at the top spine are WAY more subtle than the 9.8's top right edge...

 

None of this would be worth much bluster to me until someone says hey that book is worth $16.5K and the nicer one's worth $2K...this is the stepping-off-the-gangplank point where, at any given moment in time, we've arrived... :insane:

 

:gossip: oh BTW...the dots on the top spine don't show up on the scan because they are dead-centered on the spine...

 

I'm confused - do you own both the 9.8 that just sold and a 9.6 copy as well?

 

Because you seem awfully sure of the superiority of your 9.6 copy, and I can't imagine you would be basing a "9 out of 10 avid ASM collectors holding both these books in hand pick my book"-claim purely on a small-ish front cover scan :screwy:

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trmoore54

trmoore54

Posted
Posted
Just went back and looked at the book...the middle spine transverse tick is actually in hand super-miniscule and you have to tilt and tilt the book to even begin to think that it's actually a mark...there is actually a more readily discernable super slight JBC 1/16" tick near the bottom staple...again, most people wouldn't even see it let alone comment on it unless the book was being put forth as an uber copy...the real "problem" is about 3 or 4 little dots of color loss at the very top of the spine that, again, if someone were just selling this book raw might not even be worth a mention...it's even a bit so subtle as to perhaps be wondered if it weren't somewhat production related...

 

Having said that, it still in my mind begets an interesting discussion. I think, given the opportunity, 9 out of 10 avid ASM collectors holding both these books in hand pick my book...it's just nicer looking and therefore a NICER book...the dots I refer to at the top spine are WAY more subtle than the 9.8's top right edge...

 

None of this would be worth much bluster to me until someone says hey that book is worth $16.5K and the nicer one's worth $2K...this is the stepping-off-the-gangplank point where, at any given moment in time, we've arrived... :insane:

 

:gossip: oh BTW...the dots on the top spine don't show up on the scan because they are dead-centered on the spine...

 

I'm confused - do you own both the 9.8 that just sold and a 9.6 copy as well?

 

Because you seem awfully sure of the superiority of your 9.6 copy, and I can't imagine you would be basing a "9 out of 10 avid ASM collectors holding both these books in hand pick my book"-claim purely on a small-ish front cover scan :screwy:

 

I just own the 9.6...along with other comments made, we were just commenting on what we could see in the scans...apples to apples...scans to scans...I believe my book is superior...as discussed previously on the boards, it is a belief...not necessarily a fact...kind of like religion... :insane:

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NewWorldOrder

NewWorldOrder

Posted
Posted
Just went back and looked at the book...the middle spine transverse tick is actually in hand super-miniscule and you have to tilt and tilt the book to even begin to think that it's actually a mark...there is actually a more readily discernable super slight JBC 1/16" tick near the bottom staple...again, most people wouldn't even see it let alone comment on it unless the book was being put forth as an uber copy...the real "problem" is about 3 or 4 little dots of color loss at the very top of the spine that, again, if someone were just selling this book raw might not even be worth a mention...it's even a bit so subtle as to perhaps be wondered if it weren't somewhat production related...

 

Having said that, it still in my mind begets an interesting discussion. I think, given the opportunity, 9 out of 10 avid ASM collectors holding both these books in hand pick my book...it's just nicer looking and therefore a NICER book...the dots I refer to at the top spine are WAY more subtle than the 9.8's top right edge...

 

None of this would be worth much bluster to me until someone says hey that book is worth $16.5K and the nicer one's worth $2K...this is the stepping-off-the-gangplank point where, at any given moment in time, we've arrived... :insane:

 

:gossip: oh BTW...the dots on the top spine don't show up on the scan because they are dead-centered on the spine...

 

I'm confused - do you own both the 9.8 that just sold and a 9.6 copy as well?

 

Because you seem awfully sure of the superiority of your 9.6 copy, and I can't imagine you would be basing a "9 out of 10 avid ASM collectors holding both these books in hand pick my book"-claim purely on a small-ish front cover scan :screwy:

 

I just own the 9.6...along with other comments made, we were just commenting on what we could see in the scans...apples to apples...scans to scans...I believe my book is superior...as discussed previously on the boards, it is a belief...not necessarily a fact...kind of like religion... :insane:

 

Your book is Superior! ^^

 

I would take your CGC 9.6 over that godly over graded, pen marked, production flawed CGC 9.4 at best copy.

 

:hi:

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1962

1962

Posted
Posted
Can we say that one scanner can also make a book look better than another scanner?

 

Perhaps.

 

Can I say that the one book sitting in the 9.8 holder isn't worth 10X the price of the other?

 

Yes and you are so, so, correct. :screwy:

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DarkKnightReturns

DarkKnightReturns

Posted
Posted
Just went back and looked at the book...the middle spine transverse tick is actually in hand super-miniscule and you have to tilt and tilt the book to even begin to think that it's actually a mark...there is actually a more readily discernable super slight JBC 1/16" tick near the bottom staple...again, most people wouldn't even see it let alone comment on it unless the book was being put forth as an uber copy...the real "problem" is about 3 or 4 little dots of color loss at the very top of the spine that, again, if someone were just selling this book raw might not even be worth a mention...it's even a bit so subtle as to perhaps be wondered if it weren't somewhat production related...

 

Having said that, it still in my mind begets an interesting discussion. I think, given the opportunity, 9 out of 10 avid ASM collectors holding both these books in hand pick my book...it's just nicer looking and therefore a NICER book...the dots I refer to at the top spine are WAY more subtle than the 9.8's top right edge...

 

None of this would be worth much bluster to me until someone says hey that book is worth $16.5K and the nicer one's worth $2K...this is the stepping-off-the-gangplank point where, at any given moment in time, we've arrived... :insane:

 

:gossip: oh BTW...the dots on the top spine don't show up on the scan because they are dead-centered on the spine...

 

I'm confused - do you own both the 9.8 that just sold and a 9.6 copy as well?

 

Because you seem awfully sure of the superiority of your 9.6 copy, and I can't imagine you would be basing a "9 out of 10 avid ASM collectors holding both these books in hand pick my book"-claim purely on a small-ish front cover scan :screwy:

 

I just own the 9.6...along with other comments made, we were just commenting on what we could see in the scans...apples to apples...scans to scans...I believe my book is superior...as discussed previously on the boards, it is a belief...not necessarily a fact...kind of like religion... :insane:

 

Your book is Superior! ^^

 

I would take your CGC 9.6 over that godly over graded, pen marked, production flawed CGC 9.4 at best copy.

 

:hi:

lol yeah, from my vantage point that 9.6 looks better, sweet book trmoore (thumbs u

 

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mschmidt

mschmidt

Posted
Posted
Just went back and looked at the book...the middle spine transverse tick is actually in hand super-miniscule and you have to tilt and tilt the book to even begin to think that it's actually a mark...there is actually a more readily discernable super slight JBC 1/16" tick near the bottom staple...again, most people wouldn't even see it let alone comment on it unless the book was being put forth as an uber copy...the real "problem" is about 3 or 4 little dots of color loss at the very top of the spine that, again, if someone were just selling this book raw might not even be worth a mention...it's even a bit so subtle as to perhaps be wondered if it weren't somewhat production related...

 

Having said that, it still in my mind begets an interesting discussion. I think, given the opportunity, 9 out of 10 avid ASM collectors holding both these books in hand pick my book...it's just nicer looking and therefore a NICER book...the dots I refer to at the top spine are WAY more subtle than the 9.8's top right edge...

 

None of this would be worth much bluster to me until someone says hey that book is worth $16.5K and the nicer one's worth $2K...this is the stepping-off-the-gangplank point where, at any given moment in time, we've arrived... :insane:

 

:gossip: oh BTW...the dots on the top spine don't show up on the scan because they are dead-centered on the spine...

 

I'm confused - do you own both the 9.8 that just sold and a 9.6 copy as well?

 

Because you seem awfully sure of the superiority of your 9.6 copy, and I can't imagine you would be basing a "9 out of 10 avid ASM collectors holding both these books in hand pick my book"-claim purely on a small-ish front cover scan :screwy:

 

I just own the 9.6...along with other comments made, we were just commenting on what we could see in the scans...apples to apples...scans to scans...I believe my book is superior...as discussed previously on the boards, it is a belief...not necessarily a fact...kind of like religion... :insane:

 

If it's so superior, why don't you send it in for regrading so it can sit in the 9.8 slab you so firmly believes it deserves? I mean, both you & soti keep talking about how loose CGC is grading right now, so wouldn't it be a no-brainer to see if you could get the grade bump?

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The Question?

The Question?

Posted
Posted
Just went back and looked at the book...the middle spine transverse tick is actually in hand super-miniscule and you have to tilt and tilt the book to even begin to think that it's actually a mark...there is actually a more readily discernable super slight JBC 1/16" tick near the bottom staple...again, most people wouldn't even see it let alone comment on it unless the book was being put forth as an uber copy...the real "problem" is about 3 or 4 little dots of color loss at the very top of the spine that, again, if someone were just selling this book raw might not even be worth a mention...it's even a bit so subtle as to perhaps be wondered if it weren't somewhat production related...

 

Having said that, it still in my mind begets an interesting discussion. I think, given the opportunity, 9 out of 10 avid ASM collectors holding both these books in hand pick my book...it's just nicer looking and therefore a NICER book...the dots I refer to at the top spine are WAY more subtle than the 9.8's top right edge...

 

None of this would be worth much bluster to me until someone says hey that book is worth $16.5K and the nicer one's worth $2K...this is the stepping-off-the-gangplank point where, at any given moment in time, we've arrived... :insane:

 

:gossip: oh BTW...the dots on the top spine don't show up on the scan because they are dead-centered on the spine...

 

I'm confused - do you own both the 9.8 that just sold and a 9.6 copy as well?

 

Because you seem awfully sure of the superiority of your 9.6 copy, and I can't imagine you would be basing a "9 out of 10 avid ASM collectors holding both these books in hand pick my book"-claim purely on a small-ish front cover scan :screwy:

 

I just own the 9.6...along with other comments made, we were just commenting on what we could see in the scans...apples to apples...scans to scans...I believe my book is superior...as discussed previously on the boards, it is a belief...not necessarily a fact...kind of like religion... :insane:

 

If it's so superior, why don't you send it in for regrading so it can sit in the 9.8 slab you so firmly believes it deserves? I mean, both you & soti keep talking about how loose CGC is grading right now, so wouldn't it be a no-brainer to see if you could get the grade bump?

 

 

 

 

I'm flummoxed as to why the idea that a 9.6 can look and BE a better book overall than a 9.8? Are you serious? it's a 1/4 grade dude? I have a plethora of CGC 9.6 books that in MY estimation (and that's 30 years of collecting and looking at books) are hands down better LOOKING books than many 9.8 copies i've seen?

 

This is incredulous for you? REALLY? are you seriously this flawed in perception? I'm sorry, but your contention about that 9.6 seems rather bizarre. After all, we ALL know there are CGC 9.8 books that have miscuts to throw up on, books in a gazzillion years I personally would NEVER own, yet there they are, 9.8 copies. I think you protest too much for the grading prowess of other human beings.

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fantastic_four

fantastic_four

Posted
Posted
You never really change, do you Crusty? Still hoarding those ASM #36 10.0s? You know, they're only 1/5 of a point from being 9.8s. (thumbs u

 

TheQuestion = procrustean?

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trmoore54

trmoore54

Posted
Posted

I'm not saying my book is a 9.8...I believe it is accurately graded as a 9.6...I'm saying the 9.8 is a 9.6 at best...which takes us to the other aspect of this discussion, on any given day when does a 9.6 get a 9.8 grade and vice-versa...Roy is so adamant that the 9.8 is a 9.8...which is kind of ridiculous as don't we have a constant discussion going of people sending in books and getting grade bumps...and in some cases grade-drops...

 

I'm a fan of CGC but believe there are many factors for books above 9.0 that ultimately determine their final .2 designation one way or the other...didn't someone in the other thread say they just sent in an X-Men 1 8.5 and got a 9.0 back...now that is huge and I'm sure if 10 of us looked at the book half or more would say it's an 8.5 and some would say it's a 9.0...and then we get into the "borderline" 8.5 or "borderline" 9.0...

 

I'd love to get a 9.8 on this book and perhaps some others...obviously it would be a huge payday if I were to sell the book...but I'm more pragmatic in general and probably won't waste my time and risk damage to the book... 2c

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The Question?

The Question?

Posted
Posted
You never really change, do you Crusty? Still hoarding those ASM #36 10.0s? You know, they're only 1/5 of a point from being 9.8s. (thumbs u

 

TheQuestion = procrustean?

 

 

 

 

I've been here a LONG time folks...longer than most :headbang:

 

well, here, gone, and back again...over and over.... hm

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jeBailey

jeBailey

Posted
Posted
I'm not saying my book is a 9.8...I believe it is accurately graded as a 9.6...I'm saying the 9.8 is a 9.6 at best...which takes us to the other aspect of this discussion, on any given day when does a 9.6 get a 9.8 grade and vice-versa...Roy is so adamant that the 9.8 is a 9.8...which is kind of ridiculous as don't we have a constant discussion going of people sending in books and getting grade bumps...and in some cases grade-drops...

 

I'm a fan of CGC but believe there are many factors for books above 9.0 that ultimately determine their final .2 designation one way or the other...didn't someone in the other thread say they just sent in an X-Men 1 8.5 and got a 9.0 back...now that is huge and I'm sure if 10 of us looked at the book half or more would say it's an 8.5 and some would say it's a 9.0...and then we get into the "borderline" 8.5 or "borderline" 9.0...

 

I'd love to get a 9.8 on this book and perhaps some others...obviously it would be a huge payday if I were to sell the book...but I'm more pragmatic in general and probably won't waste my time and risk damage to the book... 2c

 

Tom your a voice of reason as always.

 

John

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VintageComics

VintageComics

Posted
Posted
I'm not saying my book is a 9.8...I believe it is accurately graded as a 9.6...I'm saying the 9.8 is a 9.6 at best...which takes us to the other aspect of this discussion, on any given day when does a 9.6 get a 9.8 grade and vice-versa...Roy is so adamant that the 9.8 is a 9.8...which is kind of ridiculous as don't we have a constant discussion going of people sending in books and getting grade bumps...and in some cases grade-drops...

 

 

Tom, I think you might be missing what I was trying to say and part of the reason is likely because I'm not as eloquent as most.

 

What I was trying to say was that I can see why the Valparaiso ASM #55 graded a CGC 9.8 and why your book graded a CGC 9.6 based on the facts at hand. That's not saying which book I prefer.

 

Understand that we are having a discussion about a subjective subject, using partial information (grading notes on one book and a lower res scan of the other book), opinions and emotion (because where there is big $$ involved there is always emotion).

 

I was not adamant that a 9.8 is a 9.8. I am adamant that the ASM #55 9.8 is an accurately graded CGC 9.8 based on what we know about it.

 

Overstreet allows for 2-3 tiny flaws in 9.8 condition based on the Overstreet Grading Guide that I own. We know that CGC does not discount for common production defects like that rough right edge (which is as common to Marvels as Stan Lee is common to Marvels) and they do NOT discount for arrival dates as long as they are not overly obtrusive. Knowng that we can only judge the book based on the flaws we know about. The spine stress and slight flecking that are visible in the scan are likely minimal enough for CGC to give this book a CGC 9.8 regardless of what anyone else will grade it as.

 

We'll always be able to argue if one book has nicer eye appeal than another. that's not the discussion here. The discusion is, will this book grade a 9.8 second time around. Very likely.

 

I personally would choose your 9.6 over the 9.8. At least I think I would, but I'm not in a position to collect Spidey in highest grades so I can't say for sure what I'd do unless I was already doing it.

 

 

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ChasingKingKirby

ChasingKingKirby

Posted
Posted
I'm not saying my book is a 9.8...I believe it is accurately graded as a 9.6...I'm saying the 9.8 is a 9.6 at best...which takes us to the other aspect of this discussion, on any given day when does a 9.6 get a 9.8 grade and vice-versa...Roy is so adamant that the 9.8 is a 9.8...which is kind of ridiculous as don't we have a constant discussion going of people sending in books and getting grade bumps...and in some cases grade-drops...

 

 

Tom, I think you might be missing what I was trying to say and part of the reason is likely because I'm not as eloquent as most.

 

What I was trying to say was that I can see why the Valparaiso ASM #55 graded a CGC 9.8 and why your book graded a CGC 9.6 based on the facts at hand. That's not saying which book I prefer.

 

Understand that we are having a discussion about a subjective subject, using partial information (grading notes on one book and a lower res scan of the other book), opinions and emotion (because where there is big $$ involved there is always emotion).

 

I was not adamant that a 9.8 is a 9.8. I am adamant that the ASM #55 9.8 is an accurately graded CGC 9.8 based on what we know about it.

 

Overstreet allows for 2-3 tiny flaws in 9.8 condition based on the Overstreet Grading Guide that I own. We know that CGC does not discount for common production defects like that rough right edge (which is as common to Marvels as Stan Lee is common to Marvels) and they do NOT discount for arrival dates as long as they are not overly obtrusive. Knowng that we can only judge the book based on the flaws we know about. The spine stress and slight flecking that are visible in the scan are likely minimal enough for CGC to give this book a CGC 9.8 regardless of what anyone else will grade it as.

 

We'll always be able to argue if one book has nicer eye appeal than another. that's not the discussion here. The discusion is, will this book grade a 9.8 second time around. Very likely.

 

I personally would choose your 9.6 over the 9.8. At least I think I would, but I'm not in a position to collect Spidey in highest grades so I can't say for sure what I'd do unless I was already doing it.

 

 

 

I suspect that several of the guys reading this thread have handled and graded more high-end books than I could ever hope to in my lifetime, that includes you Roy and Tom as well. But judging ONLY by the scans, which is the only point I have attempted to make (Which in itself is merely conversational, as we all know that you cannot accurately grade a book from a scan, or for that matter through a slab.), is that Tom's book is just flat-out a much more attractive book and rightfully should be sitting in a 9.6 slab. The 9.8, unless something very odd happened when this book was scanned, has two defects VISIBLE that should eliminate it from 9.8 consideration, a soft URC and a large spine tick. That creases is easily an 1/8 of an inch and probably closer to a 1/4 and fully breaks color. These flaws are 100% visible, and does not include anything that isn't visible. Tom's book on the other hand, according to the notes you retrieved Roy, has some NCB creases. With that information, for me the choice is clear. Tom's book is the better book.

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DrWatson

DrWatson

Posted
Posted
You never really change, do you Crusty? Still hoarding those ASM #36 10.0s? You know, they're only 1/5 of a point from being 9.8s. (thumbs u

 

TheQuestion = procrustean?

Yes sir, and just like McDonald's, he's been serving the same BIGPILEOFPOOP.gif for years.

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VintageComics

VintageComics

Posted
Posted
You never really change, do you Crusty? Still hoarding those ASM #36 10.0s? You know, they're only 1/5 of a point from being 9.8s. (thumbs u

 

TheQuestion = procrustean?

Yes sir, and just like McDonald's, he's been serving the same BIGPILEOFPOOP.gif for years.

 

lol

 

 

(worship)

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supapimp

supapimp

Posted
Posted
You never really change, do you Crusty? Still hoarding those ASM #36 10.0s? You know, they're only 1/5 of a point from being 9.8s. (thumbs u

 

TheQuestion = procrustean?

Yes sir, and just like McDonald's, he's been serving the same BIGPILEOFPOOP.gif for years.

 

why hasn't she been banned like bug? (shrug)

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DrWatson

DrWatson

Posted
Posted
You never really change, do you Crusty? Still hoarding those ASM #36 10.0s? You know, they're only 1/5 of a point from being 9.8s. (thumbs u

 

TheQuestion = procrustean?

Yes sir, and just like McDonald's, he's been serving the same BIGPILEOFPOOP.gif for years.

 

why hasn't she been banned like bug? (shrug)

I dunno. The same reason Lego is still here, I guess.

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