VALPARAISO SPIDEY 55 9.8................SOLD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Sal]

Of all the ridiculous sales we have seen recently, to me this is the craziest.

 

Are bigtimers like DS and TB trying to manipulate the market and create artificial values...who effing knows...DS could've cut a deal to put this in TB's hands for $6K or $8K or whatever and agreed to post the price as we know it...

 

That is scary.

 

This whole consignment/CGC/ultra-high grade now has a stench if this is true.

 

Unfortuneately, it's not hard to believe. I am not agreeing with you on any of these questions but after some thought, strangely I believe something like this will inevitably happen.

 

There is just too much money to be made now in these books. Someone like DS, I'm not saying him exactly but perhaps someone in his position, who has a huge collection of ultra-high grades and also happens to be an auctioneer looking for consignment clients would have so much to gain that it almost outweighs any risk.

 

Those are pretty lofty accusations there gents.

 

yeah, but just the natural suspicion of these nosebleed prices combined with the fact the book sold outside of auction - or other "semi-transparent" venue.

 

it's a LOT more likely that someone of DS's influence - a fat rolodex, that is to say - might have had two or three potential buyers for the book and he just asked them who was willing to pay the most for it.

 

making semi-educated stabs at someone's sales methods isn't entirely to my liking mind you

[COI]

So that is the jumping-off point...$5400...how do you possibly get to $16500...$10K is already outlandish...

 

An ASM 69 in 9.8 just sold for 10K.

 

An ASM 14 in 9.6 recently sold for over 50K. I remember rolling my eyes when Doug Schmell first listed the pacific coast 9.6 in the vault for 25K.

 

An ASM 39 in 9.6 recently got close to 10K. I was offered a pair of 39 and 40 each in 9.6 for around 8K in 2001, but had to turn them down because I didn't have the scratch.

 

Top census Spideys and outlandish prices go hand in hand. Just when I think prices can't get any more ridiculous, another sale proves me wrong. As long as the numbers remain low, I think these top end prices will continue to defy logic, because the actual market for them may only be 2 or 3 very deep-pocketed individuals.

[Foolkiller]

Of all the ridiculous sales we have seen recently, to me this is the craziest.

 

Are bigtimers like DS and TB trying to manipulate the market and create artificial values...who effing knows...DS could've cut a deal to put this in TB's hands for $6K or $8K or whatever and agreed to post the price as we know it...

 

That is scary.

 

This whole consignment/CGC/ultra-high grade now has a stench if this is true.

 

Unfortuneately, it's not hard to believe. I am not agreeing with you on any of these questions but after some thought, strangely I believe something like this will inevitably happen.

 

There is just too much money to be made now in these books. Someone like DS, I'm not saying him exactly but perhaps someone in his position, who has a huge collection of ultra-high grades and also happens to be an auctioneer looking for consignment clients would have so much to gain that it almost outweighs any risk.

 

Those are pretty lofty accusations there gents.

 

yeah, but just the natural suspicion of these nosebleed prices combined with the fact the book sold outside of auction - or other "semi-transparent" venue.

 

it's a LOT more likely that someone of DS's influence - a fat rolodex, that is to say - might have had two or three potential buyers for the book and he just asked them who was willing to pay the most for it.

 

making semi-educated stabs at someone's sales methods isn't entirely to my liking mind you

 

I get the sense that Brulato is genuinely plunking down the price when he buys a book -- since he bought the FF 1 in 9.6 from Schmell, I'm pretty sure that was not a manipulated transaction... while I am no longer shocked by anything in the comic hobby, I just don't think these two are manipulating the market with their transactions and then reporting higher prices to run the whole market up.

[ChasingKingKirby]

Not really. I'm not talking about the picture portion of the grading guide. I'm talking about an article at the beginning. Basically there is a chart and a graph. The chart tells you how many defects and how large those defects can be in each grade. The graph plots out visually how many defects per grade are allowed.

 

If you look at the graph you are allowd 1-2 defects in 9.8. By cross referencing the chart you can see that these defects can be up to 1/8" in length. Since a spine tic is a defect you would be allowed one according to this chart.

 

I would think that the reason that CGC does not publish their grading criteria is because they don't want every oen of us calling and arguing the grades they assigned. They just couldn't run a viable business that way.

 

I think the pages below are very very close to representing how CGC grades a book with common defects, notwistanding specific or special cases.

 

 

 

Sure. I saw this to. BUT that spine tic, judging by the scan, is bigger than an 1/8 and thus should be eliminated as being a 9.8 contender. It would be lovely to see this book in hand in all it's glory, but of course that isn't possible. (At least for those of us, who don't have top 5 registry sets in the ASM 1-100 group. )

[VintageComics]

Of all the ridiculous sales we have seen recently, to me this is the craziest.

 

Are bigtimers like DS and TB trying to manipulate the market and create artificial values...who effing knows...DS could've cut a deal to put this in TB's hands for $6K or $8K or whatever and agreed to post the price as we know it...

 

That is scary.

 

This whole consignment/CGC/ultra-high grade now has a stench if this is true.

 

Unfortuneately, it's not hard to believe. I am not agreeing with you on any of these questions but after some thought, strangely I believe something like this will inevitably happen.

 

There is just too much money to be made now in these books. Someone like DS, I'm not saying him exactly but perhaps someone in his position, who has a huge collection of ultra-high grades and also happens to be an auctioneer looking for consignment clients would have so much to gain that it almost outweighs any risk.

 

Those are pretty lofty accusations there gents.

 

yeah, but just the natural suspicion of these nosebleed prices combined with the fact the book sold outside of auction - or other "semi-transparent" venue.

 

it's a LOT more likely that someone of DS's influence - a fat rolodex, that is to say - might have had two or three potential buyers for the book and he just asked them who was willing to pay the most for it.

 

making semi-educated stabs at someone's sales methods isn't entirely to my liking mind you

 

I get the sense that Brulato is genuinely plunking down the price when he buys a book -- since he bought the FF 1 in 9.6 from Schmell, I'm pretty sure that was not a manipulated transaction... while I am no longer shocked by anything in the comic hobby, I just don't think these two are manipulating the market with their transactions and then reporting higher prices to run the whole market up.

 

Couldn't agree more. Every time I've ever had a SA Marvel in highest grade and offered it for sale the general discussion is

 

1) How much?

2)Can I see a scan

3) I'll take it.

 

That's it.

 

There may be a few words thrown around on price give or take a few $$ but in general those that want the best will pay for it with little discussion.

 

That's been my experience with many of the "elite" collectors that I have personally dealt with including Tom Brulato.

 

R.

[Ogami]

Give me a f*@&ing break...wherever serious money shows up corruption is sure to follow...I could be overly cynical...just re-read Vonnegut's Cat's Cradle yesterday... out

 

great author, great book.

 

 

and I think past performances have proven that your'e not paranoid.

[Ogami]

Of all the ridiculous sales we have seen recently, to me this is the craziest.

 

Are bigtimers like DS and TB trying to manipulate the market and create artificial values...who effing knows...DS could've cut a deal to put this in TB's hands for $6K or $8K or whatever and agreed to post the price as we know it...

 

That is scary.

 

This whole consignment/CGC/ultra-high grade now has a stench if this is true.

 

Unfortuneately, it's not hard to believe. I am not agreeing with you on any of these questions but after some thought, strangely I believe something like this will inevitably happen.

 

There is just too much money to be made now in these books. Someone like DS, I'm not saying him exactly but perhaps someone in his position, who has a huge collection of ultra-high grades and also happens to be an auctioneer looking for consignment clients would have so much to gain that it almost outweighs any risk.

 

Those are pretty lofty accusations there gents.

 

those are speculations, not accusations, Roy. (thumbs u

[VintageComics]

Wrong word.

 

[Foolkiller]

The "elite" and those with a ton of money are operating on a different plane as Roy alludes to in buying their books. Whether I agree with the wisdom of this is irrelevant -- as many have the $ and are willing to pay pretty much no matter what.

 

I analogize this to people who go into comic book stores to buy their back issues. For the most part, their client base looks at the book, sees whether they have the money, and they buy it. It isn't a negotiation, it isn't hemming and hawing about the grade, it isn't citing to GPA, it's do I have the money, do I want the book, and boom, it's mine.

 

 

[Ogami]

[VintageComics]

 

I'm not as edumacated or as elokuent as most.

 

(thumbs u

[Ogami]

 

I'm not as edumacated or as elokuent as most.

 

(thumbs u

 

the most aren't as much as they want you to think they are.

 

and there are some plain talking folks wandering these halls chock full of wisdom.

[COI]

Wrong word.

 

 

So you meant to say "lofty speculations"? Interesting.

 

Get a haircut.

[Ogami]

the guy above me is one of the smart ones. ill distract him while you run.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[VintageComics]

 

I analogize this to people who go into comic book stores to buy their back issues. For the most part, their client base looks at the book, sees whether they have the money, and they buy it. It isn't a negotiation, it isn't hemming and hawing about the grade, it isn't citing to GPA, it's do I have the money, do I want the book, and boom, it's mine.

 

 

Brain that comic book store analogy is a really good one. I've got lots of friends who don't care about grade or price (within their means). All they care about is getting a copy.

 

That brings me round to a very interesting point. We have a bunch of different people on here with varied collecting interests.

 

The interests are so varied that what draws one person to a comic may have no influence or connection to what draws another person to a comic.

 

When I was run collecting I just wanted a copy. As my tastes changed to high grade, the number on the slab became the most important factor. My exposure to high grade eventually showed me how one book can be superior to another book in the same grade. This caused me to be conscious of eye appeal regardless of grade. Now that I collect GA sometimes I'm just glad to have a copy of some books in any grade whether low grade, restored...whatever.

 

I just find it interesting how different types of collectors try to box and categorize a specific books based on their experiences. There really is no right and wrong. It's all just personal preference.

 

R.

 

[VintageComics]

Wrong word.

 

 

So you meant to say "lofty speculations"? Interesting.

 

Get a haircut.

 

At this rate it'll fall out first.

 

[COI]

the guy above me is one of the smart ones. ill distract him while you run.

 

I really do have most of you fooled.

 

 

[Ogami]

 

When I was run collecting I just wanted a copy.....

 

....Now that I collect GA sometimes I'm just glad to have a copy of some books in any grade whether low grade, restored...whatever.

 

 

 

Interesting. You've come full circle.

[Ogami]

the guy above me is one of the smart ones. ill distract him while you run.

 

I really do have most of you fooled.

 

 

nah. I was just trying to earn some more Andrewpoints. I've had my eye on this tape deck for a while.

[VintageComics]

 

When I was run collecting I just wanted a copy.....

 

....Now that I collect GA sometimes I'm just glad to have a copy of some books in any grade whether low grade, restored...whatever.

 

 

 

Interesting. You've come full circle.

 

I was actually just realizing that as I wrote it...