Signed Pedigrees.....Good, Bad, or Just Plain Ugly?

[MedicAR]

The backstory is what makes the collection special. And Frazetta is a great artist, who wouldnt want a SS book from him? But I just ask why that one book? Why not another example? The pedigree is just another part of the hobby, and like SS collectors some people just like those books. There is nothing wrong with either one. But in all honesty when asked the original question of would I, I say no. If someone else wants to, thats fine. But I stated the same thing about pressing a ped, remove the designation. If you really need to alter the state of the book, go for it. But it should no longer be viewed any different than any other copy.

 

I think the book in question is one of two of the highest graded. One Universal, one Signature Series. If I had one of the two highest graded copies, regardless of pedigree, I'd say get that puppy signed!

 

I will give all of the pedigree defenders here this: You've opened my eyes to a very different part of the hobby. In the interest of full disclosure, I do own one pedigree book that I bought on the cheap just to see what it was all bout. I'm pretty ambivilent about keeping it. Yeah it's neat, but big deal. I don't plan on doing anything other than keeping it just as it is, like I do with all my comics that I don't submit for CGC SS.

 

I don't see me searching out pedigreed books any more today than I would have a week ago, but they are interesting. I suppose if they were interesting enough to me to search them out, I might feel as you do about having them signed.

 

I'm willing to agree to disagree before this turns ugly and let the poll stand on its own.

[Lebowski]

Does everyone here know the story of the Reilly collection? It was a young man who collected. When he enlisted to fight in WWII, he asked his parents to continue buying comics for him. They did. He was KIA. His parents locked his room up for years.

 

Take for example the Okajima ped that was collected by a young girl in an internment camp. So lets say you have all these books piled in front of you with this incredible story and one of them has been signed. WTF? Who signed her book? Oh no she didn't get it signed, Joe Smith did years and years later.

 

Here are two examples of pedigrees I've never heard of. In all fairness, I'm not a pedigree collector or fan, so I don't delve into the different pedigrees that exist.

 

Both are interesting. Both add something special to the book, but how many books out there have similar histories without a special designation? If the dealer who originally purchased these books from the family hadn't taken note of the stories behind them, they would just be another HG copy that we consider ourselves lucky to have available.

There are many other collections like this, or others that have been lost. That is why you see guys who really pay attention to this stuff get bothered. It is like the Mass. collection. Many of these books were sold before the master list was created, effectively making them lost to future generations. Or another good one is the Green River books which Brad is constantly searching out, and has made decent headway in locating copies put up for auction as well as defrauding copies that are not really part of the collection.

 

Patrick: I appreciate you putting up the good fight, but I tried it a couple of days ago and got blasted for it, so I stop arguing about it.

 

BTW all your examples have been correct so far :thumbsup:

 

Jim

 

That was blasting?

 

I thought it was one of the more civil threads that involved a big discussion. There was no name-calling or hissy-fits. :shrug:

[DarkKnightReturns]

Does everyone here know the story of the Reilly collection? It was a young man who collected. When he enlisted to fight in WWII, he asked his parents to continue buying comics for him. They did. He was KIA. His parents locked his room up for years.

 

Take for example the Okajima ped that was collected by a young girl in an internment camp. So lets say you have all these books piled in front of you with this incredible story and one of them has been signed. WTF? Who signed her book? Oh no she didn't get it signed, Joe Smith did years and years later.

 

Here are two examples of pedigrees I've never heard of. In all fairness, I'm not a pedigree collector or fan, so I don't delve into the different pedigrees that exist.

 

Both are interesting. Both add something special to the book, but how many books out there have similar histories without a special designation? If the dealer who originally purchased these books from the family hadn't taken note of the stories behind them, they would just be another HG copy that we consider ourselves lucky to have available.

There are many other collections like this, or others that have been lost. That is why you see guys who really pay attention to this stuff get bothered. It is like the Mass. collection. Many of these books were sold before the master list was created, effectively making them lost to future generations. Or another good one is the Green River books which Brad is constantly searching out, and has made decent headway in locating copies put up for auction as well as defrauding copies that are not really part of the collection.

 

Patrick: I appreciate you putting up the good fight, but I tried it a couple of days ago and got blasted for it, so I stop arguing about it.

 

BTW all your examples have been correct so far :thumbsup:

 

Jim

 

That was blasting?

 

I thought it was one of the more civil threads that involved a big discussion. There was no name-calling or hissy-fits. :shrug:

 

hey someones selling some walking dead in the sales thread

[Lebowski]

hey someones selling some walking dead in the sales thread

 

A Goon thread would be much more distracting.

[Guardian Comics]

It's your book, do as you will (thumbs u

 

Exactly - the fact that it's a pedigree that was later signed doesn't take away or even diminish the fact that it is still the same pedigree copy.

 

 

 

-slym

 

 

It kind of does. A pedigree will usually share the same state of preservation and characteristics with all the other books in the collection. By getting one book done and not all of them, they lose their uniformity as all are no longer the same. That's why people feel that getting a book signed is to "orphan" it from the rest of the collection.

 

A purist will also agree that Peds shouldn't be pressed either, but I can count those people on one hand and realize that it is wishful thinking.

 

Jim

[Guardian Comics]

Does everyone here know the story of the Reilly collection? It was a young man who collected. When he enlisted to fight in WWII, he asked his parents to continue buying comics for him. They did. He was KIA. His parents locked his room up for years.

 

Take for example the Okajima ped that was collected by a young girl in an internment camp. So lets say you have all these books piled in front of you with this incredible story and one of them has been signed. WTF? Who signed her book? Oh no she didn't get it signed, Joe Smith did years and years later.

 

Here are two examples of pedigrees I've never heard of. In all fairness, I'm not a pedigree collector or fan, so I don't delve into the different pedigrees that exist.

 

Both are interesting. Both add something special to the book, but how many books out there have similar histories without a special designation? If the dealer who originally purchased these books from the family hadn't taken note of the stories behind them, they would just be another HG copy that we consider ourselves lucky to have available.

There are many other collections like this, or others that have been lost. That is why you see guys who really pay attention to this stuff get bothered. It is like the Mass. collection. Many of these books were sold before the master list was created, effectively making them lost to future generations. Or another good one is the Green River books which Brad is constantly searching out, and has made decent headway in locating copies put up for auction as well as defrauding copies that are not really part of the collection.

 

Patrick: I appreciate you putting up the good fight, but I tried it a couple of days ago and got blasted for it, so I stop arguing about it.

 

BTW all your examples have been correct so far :thumbsup:

 

Jim

 

That was blasting?

 

I thought it was one of the more civil threads that involved a big discussion. There was no name-calling or hissy-fits. :shrug:

 

I thought so but I'm rediculously sensitive

 

Jim

[MedicAR]

Which will bring more at auction?

 

Now don't get off onto how DaVinci had died before 40 years had passed or whatever. It's a fictional example.....

 

I'm sure the signed one will but thats not the point. The point is about maintaining a well preserved OO collection of books in its original state after leaving OO

 

That's fair.

 

I seriously (I mean it, seriously....it's not a jab at ped collectors) thought that a big part of pedigrees and the designation was bringing in more money. "It's not just a rare book, it's not just a high grade rare book, but it's a high grade rare book that was part of a collection of similar books put together by one person at the time of publication. So, I'm charging an extra 10% for that." That's how I saw them.

 

The two examples cited above, Reilly and Okajima, are certainly special examples and while my mind isn't changed yet, you've certainly given me more to think about.

[MedicAR]

That was blasting?

 

I thought it was one of the more civil threads that involved a big discussion. There was no name-calling or hissy-fits. :shrug:

 

That's what I've enjoyed about this topic. Obviously people are very passionate about it, but we've done well in maintaining civility.

[Old Fashion PB and J]

The whole point IMO of the designation is that it brings something special to that ONE book. If as stated before there were 50,000 copies printed why use that ONE? And just because there are only two graded does NOT mean others will not surface. If you do not like pedigrees that is fine, if you dont care about the history. That is also fine. But I would advise people who have no knowledge of the pedigree to read up, just for insight and decide after that. There are some really cool backstories to the books. And the designation is rarely awarded, so by altering the book you have unfortunately taken away what was special about that book from that collection.

 

The original book IMO is no longer an Edgar Church book, it's some guy who uses an ebay handles book. The history is lost, something was done to change that. Same as the Pacific Coast Daredevil 7, the book was pressed multiple times to achieve a 9.6 grade. What is so special about that book now? The designation was given because these books were preserved so well over the years, but the almighty dollar ruined that because a CGC 9.2 was not good enough. Its really a shame. And I am not saying SS guys are in the same camp as the press for profit, so please dont get confused. I am just saying what made the book special has been lost.

[MedicAR]

It's your book, do as you will (thumbs u

 

Exactly - the fact that it's a pedigree that was later signed doesn't take away or even diminish the fact that it is still the same pedigree copy.

 

 

 

-slym

 

 

It kind of does. A pedigree will usually share the same state of preservation and characteristics with all the other books in the collection. By getting one book done and not all of them, they lose their uniformity as all are no longer the same. That's why people feel that getting a book signed is to "orphan" it from the rest of the collection.

 

A purist will also agree that Peds shouldn't be pressed either, but I can count those people on one hand and realize that it is wishful thinking.

 

Jim

 

I've just had what my paramedic instructor called an "A-HA! Moment."

 

That one phrase made it clear to me. I understand uniformity and the desire to maintain it. While I don't care about who owned the book before, I can see wanting to maintain a uniform pedigree.

 

Again, I'm not sure I agree, but I can at least understand it much better.

 

More to mull over.......

[DarkKnightReturns]

hey someones selling some walking dead in the sales thread

 

A Goon thread would be much more distracting.

 

that was my try at teasing, being uncivil. Its gets boring when everyone is always getting along and not namecalling

[Old Fashion PB and J]

Which will bring more at auction?

 

Now don't get off onto how DaVinci had died before 40 years had passed or whatever. It's a fictional example.....

 

I'm sure the signed one will but thats not the point. The point is about maintaining a well preserved OO collection of books in its original state after leaving OO

 

That's fair.

 

I seriously (I mean it, seriously....it's not a jab at ped collectors) thought that a big part of pedigrees and the designation was bringing in more money. "It's not just a rare book, it's not just a high grade rare book, but it's a high grade rare book that was part of a collection of similar books put together by one person at the time of publication. So, I'm charging an extra 10% for that." That's how I saw them.

 

The two examples cited above, Reilly and Okajima, are certainly special examples and while my mind isn't changed yet, you've certainly given me more to think about.

I hate paying the premium. But enjoy the history. Another one that strucke me is the Don Rosa collection. Not the most amazing collection, but very nice. The books were actually sent to him by DC and Marvel over the years, aroundthe 80's they stopped sending but he continued buying off the racks. So the 80's book that are being brought to surface are not as steady in grade. The SA portion is yet to be released, but has been seen and will have some of the highest graded copies when released. Don Rosa to me is a guy who drew "duck" books.

[DarkKnightReturns]

It's your book, do as you will (thumbs u

 

Exactly - the fact that it's a pedigree that was later signed doesn't take away or even diminish the fact that it is still the same pedigree copy.

 

 

 

-slym

 

 

It kind of does. A pedigree will usually share the same state of preservation and characteristics with all the other books in the collection. By getting one book done and not all of them, they lose their uniformity as all are no longer the same. That's why people feel that getting a book signed is to "orphan" it from the rest of the collection.

 

A purist will also agree that Peds shouldn't be pressed either, but I can count those people on one hand and realize that it is wishful thinking.

 

Jim

 

I've just had what my paramedic instructor called an "A-HA! Moment."

 

That one phrase made it clear to me. I understand uniformity and the desire to maintain it. While I don't care about who owned the book before, I can see wanting to maintain a uniform pedigree.

 

Again, I'm not sure I agree, but I can at least understand it much better.

 

More to mull over.......

 

Hearts and minds

[skinny_white_boy]

I do not agree with pedigrees being altered in ANY way. If the book is altered the designation should become a moot point since the history of the book has been altered.

So it is your opinion that all the restored Church books should lose their designation too?

[Old Fashion PB and J]

I do not agree with pedigrees being altered in ANY way. If the book is altered the designation should become a moot point since the history of the book has been altered.

So it is your opinion that all the restored Church books should lose their designation too?

Before or after Church owned them?

[MedicAR]

hey someones selling some walking dead in the sales thread

 

A Goon thread would be much more distracting.

 

that was my try at teasing, being uncivil. Its gets boring when everyone is always getting along and not namecalling

 

Goon and Walking Dead are dumb. And they'll never be pedigreed books.

 

 

That should get the hate and discontent train a rollin'.

 

[DarkKnightReturns]

hey someones selling some walking dead in the sales thread

 

A Goon thread would be much more distracting.

 

that was my try at teasing, being uncivil. Its gets boring when everyone is always getting along and not namecalling

 

Goon and Walking Dead are dumb. And they'll never be pedigreed books.

 

 

That should get the hate and discontent train a rollin'.

 

 

[MedicAR]

I've just had what my paramedic instructor called an "A-HA! Moment."

 

That one phrase made it clear to me. I understand uniformity and the desire to maintain it. While I don't care about who owned the book before, I can see wanting to maintain a uniform pedigree.

 

Again, I'm not sure I agree, but I can at least understand it much better.

 

More to mull over.......

 

Hearts and minds

 

Slowly but surely.......

 

I'll do more research, time permitting, and see if any of it actually changes my mind. I was very much set agains CGC books at one time. Then I was against CGC SS for awhile. Who knows? This could be the thread that created another pedigree collector.

[Old Fashion PB and J]

I've just had what my paramedic instructor called an "A-HA! Moment."

 

That one phrase made it clear to me. I understand uniformity and the desire to maintain it. While I don't care about who owned the book before, I can see wanting to maintain a uniform pedigree.

 

Again, I'm not sure I agree, but I can at least understand it much better.

 

More to mull over.......

 

Hearts and minds

 

Slowly but surely.......

 

I'll do more research, time permitting, and see if any of it actually changes my mind. I was very much set agains CGC books at one time. Then I was against CGC SS for awhile. Who knows? This could be the thread that created another pedigree collector.

I started because of these threads. Not the SS on peds, but just reading about them. If I wasnt so lazy I would send scans so you could see what Jim means about the uniformity of the runs.

[DarkKnightReturns]

I've just had what my paramedic instructor called an "A-HA! Moment."

 

That one phrase made it clear to me. I understand uniformity and the desire to maintain it. While I don't care about who owned the book before, I can see wanting to maintain a uniform pedigree.

 

Again, I'm not sure I agree, but I can at least understand it much better.

 

More to mull over.......

 

Hearts and minds

 

Slowly but surely.......

 

I'll do more research, time permitting, and see if any of it actually changes my mind. I was very much set agains CGC books at one time. Then I was against CGC SS for awhile. Who knows? This could be the thread that created another pedigree collector.

creating competition - oh wait, like I said earlier I can't afford most anyways