It's official, you're a second tier character

[JohnBull]

The distinction between first and second tier was discussed somewhere else and questions were asked about Captain America's status. Public awareness became an issue, so I decided to ask my wife.

 

Mrs. gpcove knows nothing about comics, apart from the fact that she hates them and only insufficiently_thoughtful_persons read them.

 

She has heard of the following - Superman, Batman, Robin, Spiderman, the Incredible Hulk (her words) and Wonder Woman.

 

She doesn't know - Fantastic Four, Captain America, Green Lantern, Flash, X-Men or Daredevil. Her awareness doesn't go as far as modern films/TV, just the older stuff. I also asked "Captain Marvel/Shazam" and she said "oh, yes", but I think she was fibbing here.

 

The only other comic related knowledge she knew was that Batman had a utility belt and that his scret identity was Bruce Kent (presumably after he gave up running CND).

 

I imagine if you ask any 30-something who doesn't like modern/action movies, that you'll get a similar answer.

[goldust40]

Mrs. gpcove knows nothing about comics, apart from the fact that she hates them and only insufficiently_thoughtful_persons read them.

 

Sounds about right - most of the general public in GB sneer at and despise comics as the domain of the friendless geek. This despite the fact that most people only ever read mind-numbing trash anyway (Heat, Loaded, TV Quick, most tabloids).

 

My missus doesn't rabidly detest them, but apart from one or two conversations about the Watchmen, Batman, Mad magazine and various EC comics (none of which she ever bothered to investigate) she'll swiftly change the subject if I broach it. I can honestly say that in the entire time we've been together (10 years) she's never read a single comic or comic related item.

 

As for second tier characters being those that are important but the unwashed masses aren't familiar with, I'd say your other half is about typical in her knowledge.

 

Despite the big-budget Daredevil film, hardly any non-comic fan if pressed would know who the character was. There's only enough room for a handful of archetypes in most people's minds - even the Silver Surfer and Captain America are too much for them.

 

 

[RedRaven]

Im guessing the X-Men movies weren't very popular in the UK ??

[Freiherr]

Hmmm

 

I was not into comics when I was a kid, but I was very familiar with Captain America and even the Red Skull. When watching the FF cartoon, I wanted to know where the Human Torch was. Other noticeable characters before I got into comics included Hulk, Thor, Punisher, Spider-Man, Iron Man and for some odd reason Silver Surfer.

 

Who I didn’t know about till I was 18 or so…

 

X-Men (including Wolverine)

DD

The Avengers (minus Cap, Thor, Iron Man and Hulk)

 

DC characters were much easier thanks to the Super Friends. Plastic Man had his own show. The only key DC hero I didn’t know about was Martian Manhunter.

 

[JohnBull]

Im guessing the X-Men movies weren't very popular in the UK ??

 

No, they were huge. But their impact on her scale of consciousness was zero, I doubt she ever realised they were comic characters. Two of her favourite films are Breakfast at Tiffany's and The Piano. Need I say more ?

[Freiherr]

My wife never really read any of my comic either. She just nagged at me all the time to put them away like my mom would about my toys.

 

She did go through a short Witchblade thing. She came to me with a Wizard add and asked me if I had any of “these comics” (I didn’t). She wanted the Wolverine crossover real bad, but I could never find it nor did I ever find out why. She settled for an action figure that stayed on top of the TV for a while.

 

 

But her favorite movies were Desperado and Mortal Kombat (another puzzler).

[DoubleCovaBrotha]

The distinction between first and second tier was discussed somewhere else and questions were asked about Captain America's status. Public awareness became an issue, so I decided to ask my wife.

 

Mrs. gpcove knows nothing about comics, apart from the fact that she hates them and only insufficiently_thoughtful_persons read them.

 

She has heard of the following - Superman, Batman, Robin, Spiderman, the Incredible Hulk (her words) and Wonder Woman.

 

She doesn't know - Fantastic Four, Captain America, Green Lantern, Flash, X-Men or Daredevil. Her awareness doesn't go as far as modern films/TV, just the older stuff. I also asked "Captain Marvel/Shazam" and she said "oh, yes", but I think she was fibbing here.

 

The only other comic related knowledge she knew was that Batman had a utility belt and that his scret identity was Bruce Kent (presumably after he gave up running CND).

 

I imagine if you ask any 30-something who doesn't like modern/action movies, that you'll get a similar answer.

 

But then by that logic, the X-Men are also a second tier superhero.

[mrwoogieman]

When's someone going to start the "You know you're a second tier character when...." thread? (I would but I'm not being funny today)

[goldust40]

I was not into comics when I was a kid, but I was very familiar with Captain America and even the Red Skull. When watching the FF cartoon, I wanted to know where the Human Torch was. Other noticeable characters before I got into comics included Hulk, Thor, Punisher, Spider-Man, Iron Man and for some odd reason Silver Surfer.

 

If all this knowledge was accrued before you got into comics, then that is impressive. Although I suspect that an incipient interest in the medium was there from early on. I think that people in the U.S. would, by rights, have a greater knowledge of and interest in Marvel and DC characters than the U.K. because:-

 

1) It's your heritage, it's one of the great American artforms, like Jazz and Rock n' Roll. All right it wasn't invented by America, but you guys certainly pushed the envelope much further than we did, from the GA onwards.

 

2) As a baby boomer growing up in the '70s, I never got to see any Marvel related cartoons or the Super Friends. They weren't broadcast at that time (up until 1982 we only had three T.V. channels in the U.K.). We got the Adam West Batman series and the Banana Splits, and that was about it. We were deprived of that nostalgia. Could be that's why there's less interest generally.

[JohnBull]

2) As a baby boomer growing up in the '70s, I never got to see any Marvel related cartoons or the Super Friends. They weren't broadcast at that time (up until 1982 we only had three T.V. channels in the U.K.). We got the Adam West Batman series and the Banana Splits, and that was about it. We were deprived of that nostalgia. Could be that's why there's less interest generally.

 

They definitely showed the Spiderman cartoon and also the Superman cartoon when I was a kid, but that might have been very late 60's or very early 70's. Actually, I'd have thought it was around the time of the Banana Splits. Loved that show, "Size of a BSD". Great stuff.

[Freiherr]

Dangit…

 

Unfortunately I can be one of those Americans that forgets that people in other countries are present in forums. (My apologies)

 

I guess I knew about Captain America just because of the name. I honestly do not know how I knew about him because I do not recall him being in any media other than comics. The only thing that sticks out are the Mego toys. As I said before, the Silver Surfer is anyone’s guess.

 

Hulk and Spider-Man were huge in the 70s. The probably had as much merchandise out then as they do today in America. FF had a cartoon in the late 60s (I think) and then another revamped one in the late 70s or early 80s that excluded the Human Torch.

 

[RedRaven]

you know youre a second tier character when not only is your team name a ripoff of another team but it also has a direction in front if it!

 

West Coast Avengers

[goldust40]

I remember on a recent trip to the U.S. seeing an old Iron Man cartoon from the '60s which had zero production values, i.e. the makers had taken Don Heck's artwork, cut figures out of it and had them move feebly against the backgrounds that the animators had again pinched from the comic.

 

Meanwhile, how could I have forgotten the Spiderman '60s cartoon series which was actually pretty good, with a memorable theme tune. And Marine Boy.

 

A friend who is ten years younger than me recalls Space Ghost and Battle Of The Planets.

 

But no Captain America etc. I rate Cap as a great character simply because of his name and what he symbolizes. No-one in England seems to have heard of him. IMO, deserves a big budget movie.

[Freiherr]

Did Captain Britain, Union Jack or Excaliber have greater success across the pond?

 

How about the Marvel UK series? (which I enjoyed).

 

[JohnBull]

Did Captain Britain, Union Jack or Excaliber have greater success across the pond?

 

 

Sorry, I can control myself now.

 

 

No honestly, I'm almost there.

 

[JohnBull]

I remember on a recent trip to the U.S. seeing an old Iron Man cartoon from the '60s which had zero production values, i.e. the makers had taken Don Heck's artwork, cut figures out of it and had them move feebly against the backgrounds that the animators had again pinched from the comic.

 

Stan Lee talks about these early cartoons in some depth in a contemporaneous interview that was reprinted in a mid-90's Comic Journal. He claims that the style of using the art and animating around it, was designed to accurately reflect the comics. I suspect the truth is somewhere in the middle, a try at authenticity and a good dose of Cheepnis.

[goldust40]

Captain Britain and Excalibur were definitely successful in England. Always enjoyed Excalibur, especially. As for the Marvel UK stuff, that started promisingly and was well publicised, but interest faltered quickly. There were some good titles, but I recall that there was a lot of filler, too.

 

By the time of Marvel UK, Direct Distribution and established comic shops meant that that imprint was surplus to requirements -people on limited budgets tended to go for the established U.S. stuff, which was easily accessible.

[RedRaven]

errr, Ive got 30 issues of Excalibur 1 sitting in a box... is it time to release them on an unsuspecting world ....?

[goldust40]

Oh all right, Marvel UK was rubbish. Overhyped trite rubbish. I've removed the rose-tinted specs. 'Scuse me, gp.

[goldust40]

errr, Ive got 30 issues of Excalibur 1 sitting in a box... is it time to release them on an unsuspecting world ....?

 

I've got loads of unprocessed Excaliburs sitting in boxes that I can't be bothered to price as no-one wants them. Alan Davis was good, but the book just sticks.

 

I'd wait a few years. Until they make a movie of the comic. Sillier things have happened - Keanu Reeves as Constantine, anyone?