Cartoon cels / Animation Art

[wurstisart]

I come accross these Cartoon cells, etc. all the time and was wondering what the story of those is.

When were they a big collecter item, or were they a big collector item ?

What does the market look like now, etc.

 

Can someone sum this up and post it here ?

Never really had an interest in them and was wondering how they are valued, etc.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

[chrisco37]

Not too familiar with it.

 

I've seen them in Heritage catalogs. There's still a market, for sure. But, I don't think it's what it used to be.

 

My guess is that Disney stuff would be the tops. Movies first, then the shorts.

 

After that, maybe Warner Bros Looney Toon stuff.

[spider9698]

Animation art collecting is on life-support these days. The highs were in the late 80s and early 90s and it was not uncommon to see six-figure sales at Heritage and Sothebys. Today all the animation art galleries have gone the way of the Edsel. Heritage does have some animation sales but prices are a fraction of their highs two decades ago.

Vintage Disney can do well but it needs to be exceptional. In other words, key setups on production backgrounds with iconic imagery.

There are still a few die-hard Warner collectors but you can count them on one hand. All agree that prices are in the toilet.

In addition, todays animation is computer generated and todays kids are focused on Spongebob not Mickey.

 

[wurstisart]

So how many animation pieces were there, i guess they were used for movies ?

So there are thousands from each movie ? Or am I thinking in the wrong direction.

[comicartcom]

24 per second

 

makes it easy to figure

 

one minute = 1440

one hour = 86,640

 

 

[wurstisart]

how can that be valuable ?

[westform]

how can that be valuable ?

 

bingo.

[comicartcom]

how can that be valuable ?

 

bingo.

 

 

[Brian Peck]

You have to remember Disney regularly (and other studios) reused the cels back in the 40s and 50s. They would have them cleaned and used for another film. Many studios would also just dump the cels in the trash. It wasn't until the 70s that Disney started selling the cels to many of the animated films at their parks for $5 each. It was the 80s where the prices sky rocketed. But then that could be said about original comic art. I have heard of a publisher using original art to insulate his house. Newspaper publishers in the 40s would tear strips in half so they would be reused by another publisher.

So there are alot fewer cels from classic films than you would think even with 24 frames (cels) a sec.

[comicartcom]

not entirely correct Brian

 

Couvoisier was selling Disney cels through their Los Angeles galleries from about 1941 as well as through Disneyland in the 50s

[Brian Peck]

OK, I am not that well versed in the animation field, so I am probably wrong there. Though alot of cels were destroyed and reused so it does limit what is out there. Besides there may be 1000s of cels from an animated film available but only a small amount of that has main characters or are from favorite scenes in the film. Alot are just background or minor characters.

 

 

[NelsonAI]

A vintage cel from Steamboat Willie (1st Mickey) would bring in big $ IMHO.

 

However, the speculation in the "modern era cels" (comic book analogy anyone?) was often fueled by the studios themselves.

 

As Brian pointed out, prices spiked in the 1980's. Disney carefully controlled the supply chain and distribution by selling the cels at their theme parks.

 

An average cel from "A Little Mermaid" for example would be priced between $2,000 - $3,000 each. People visiting Disney theme parks bought them. Better quality cels with original backgrounds were sold at auction by the studios themselves.

 

Disney carefully released a few cels at a time so they could control the price.

 

WB through their retail stores began doing the same for their TV cartoon shows. However these were usually priced between $250 - $500 fully matted and framed. Something with an original handpainted background would be priced at $1K.

 

(Full disclosure - I own WB Batman/Superman cels).

 

WB also had an incentive program where if you spent $500, you would get a $50 store credit (which didn't have an expiration date at the time).

 

IMHO, the problem was when AOL bought out Time Warner. Shortly thereafter, AOL closed down all the retail stores and flooded the marketplace with animation cels. Hell, I bought stuff up at 75% off at one point. The owners at one well known animation gallery did the same.

 

Clampett Studios has since bought out the WB warehouse and has gone back to controlling the supply in the marketplace.

 

Just go to any major convention like SDCC and you will see animation dealers selling production cels and limited edition specialty cels. There is a demand for the product, just not at the sky high speculative prices.

 

btw - Rich is correct. At one point Disney sold off their best stuff through Courvoisier. Buying a "Courvoisier cel" is like buying a "Mile High" comic.

 

Cheers!

N

 

[ShaneTurgeon]

I've been lurking for quite some time, so forgive me for not making a proper introduction just yet (i'm hoping to do so fairly soon once i get some of my art all framed up and in my CAF gallery) but i've been dabbling a bit in animation art over the past few years.

 

It's quite remarkable that there really is not online community to speak of for animation collectors to either discuss animation or show it off in a CAF-style gallery. It does sort of feel like there's nothing but crickets out there in the hobby.

 

That said, while modern-era (post-1950) cels seem to be somewhat abundant, there seems to be a growing movement of collectors who are more actively seeking out good animation art and taking advantage of the lull in market activity and prices. Granted, there's a glut of cels from any number of shows from the last 30-40 years but as Brian stated before, finding good marquee master or key cel set-ups can be somewhat daunting. Most of what's on the market is, more or less, garbage and that's why it seems like there's so much out there.

 

I've primarily been focusing on cels from the early episodes of the Star Wars Droids cartoons (if you have access to it, please feel free to read my article on Nelvana, the Canadian animation company that produced the series in Star Wars Insider #73) and many of the early cels were lost or destroyed. Finding master cel set-ups has taken years and many of the early ones that do show up now don't match properly. An eBay search for Droids cels will turn up a glut of material from the last 4 episodes, but finding anything from the first 8 is pretty tough and they can go from anywhere from $250-$750 for a proper set-up. Good Sunbow GI Joe set-ups can also reach those prices as well.

 

But i digress. My point being that if it's a marquee cel from a popular series, especially one with a fanboy-type following, they can command alright prices (though nothing like what marquee comic art can command) so we may yet see a resurgence in hobby activity - just not what prices used to command.

 

Edit: I just caught up on the other thread discussing cels and just wanted to state that in no way do i think these "chump chage" cels i'm discussing above are in the same league as the older Disney/Warner pieces that topped $100K-$200K back in the day. I was merely pointing out that a new generation of collectors might be coming along now and grabbing some of the better, modern era stuff, and hopefully breathing some life into the hobby.

[spider9698]

I have been an animation art fan/collector since the late 1970s. Back in the day, you could call an old animator and he would send you an envelop full of art. When prices went through the roof, old animators and their heirs went digging through closets and attics trying to find old cels and backgrounds. The supply quickly entered the marketplace. I have not seen a "fresh" piece of vintage Warner art in nearly a decade. It is ALL out there eiither in collectors hands or with the well established dealers (Clampett, Jones etc).

Although there were thousands of cels for each cartoon, only a minute fraction from the golden age has survived. Combine an ideal image (main character, full body, eyes open) with a key background and you have an A+++ piece. In my 20+ years of collecting vintage Warner pieces, the amount of key vintage setups that I have seen are likely in the single digits. If those pieces were to come to market you would see a bit of a bidding war with the small handful of diehard collectors. Everything else would be sold for cents on the dollar.

 

[CollectingFool]

WB also had an incentive program where if you spent $500, you would get a $50 store credit (which didn't have an expiration date at the time).

 

Unfortunately the stores DID have an expiration date. Who are the "big" cell dealers today?

 

Ruben

http://www.collectingfool.com

 

[DStorm]

I used to be a big animation cel collector but I sold most of my big stuff back in 1993 when I needed a downpayment for my house. I still regret one sale from the Legend of Sleepy Hollow. I've bought a cel here and there over the years, but mostly just stuff that I liked from my childhood that wasn't very expensive (under $300). I still have about 10-12 cels left but nothing major, just "cool". Like a black and white Tony The Tiger cereal commercial cel and the conductor from "Conjunction Junction".

 

Actually many of the "big dealers" are still around. Cricket Gallery, Animation Celection, Van Eaton Galleries. The biggies survived, the mom and pops closed up.

 

I'm still on the look out for 2-3 cels, but I wouldn't call me a collector anymore. I'm actually still trying to unload a couple originals. Hong Kong Phooey, Ren and Stimpy on a production background and a cel from a Halloween Disney short called TRICK OR TREAT.

 

If you are still a collector, lucky you, because there are definitely deals to be had now, but many of the big time collectors are still out there and they still drive up the prices on the premium pieces, like Disney.

 

Brian, you were mostly right though.

[Lebowski]

A Ren & Stimpy cel, you say?

[rob_allan]

This is semi-OT but I have a question that kind of fits here.

 

What about these cels that come with DVDs-- were they actually used or were they replicas? I have one that came with my Transformers Season One set and it's pretty cool but I always assumed it to be a replica or something. Are these actually legit and they can just be included because of how many it takes to make a single toon?

 

-Rob-

[DStorm]

A Ren & Stimpy cel, you say?

 

Multi-cel setup with Ren, Stimpy and the Sarge on cels. This is the matching production background as well, which is quite hard to find. Selling for exactly what I paid $250. Obviously there is a flash from my camera on it.

 

[NelsonAI]

Welcome to the CGC Boards Shane.

 

I have seen a few cels here and there for the Droid series but couldn't tell you which episodes they were from as it's not what I follow. However, you can check with some of the vendors DStorm mentioned in his post as they all were at SDCC.

 

When it comes to animation, "lost" often means the animators took them home with them. It will be just as Stephen described with the vintage Warner pieces. If prices creep up, the cels and master set ups will come out into the marketplace.

 

I would also check specialty conventions that focus in on Star Trek as many of the Star Wars items fall into the Sci-fi category rather than "comics".

 

Cheers!

N