Brittle Pages - How Much Life Left?

[innocuous]

For most of you, I know you would never purchase a book with brittle pages, that is NOT what this thread is about.

 

How much longer does a book with brittle pages have left?

 

Assume I put the book in mylar with an acid free board. Store it in a cool, dark place. 5 years? 10, 25? What I mean by how much life left, is when I take it out, the pages break apart when being turned, that's the end of its life.

[G.A.tor]

For most of you, I know you would never purchase a book with brittle pages, that is NOT what this thread is about.

 

How much longer does a book with brittle pages have left?

 

Assume I put the book in mylar with an acid free board. Store it in a cool, dark place. 5 years? 10, 25? What I mean by how much life left, is when I take it out, the pages break apart when being turned, that's the end of its life.

if stored properly, and if the pages are only brittle at the extreme edges, will out last us all

[Thegoldenage]

Well said. It all depends on the storage.

[ciorac]

For most of you, I know you would never purchase a book with brittle pages, that is NOT what this thread is about.

 

How much longer does a book with brittle pages have left?

 

Assume I put the book in mylar with an acid free board. Store it in a cool, dark place. 5 years? 10, 25? What I mean by how much life left, is when I take it out, the pages break apart when being turned, that's the end of its life.

if stored properly, and if the pages are only brittle at the extreme edges, will out last us all

 

Only if never touched, opened or read. Which is, IMO, opposite of why I collect.

[G.A.tor]

You can open them

Read them etc

Just have to handle with a bit more care

[143ksk]

It really depends on the degree of brittleness.

 

There are books that are brittle at the edges or in one particular area that was exposed to conditions that the rest of the book wasn't. These books, if handled carefully, are often readable for years to come.

 

Then there are books that are extremely brittle throughout most or all of the book. These are the ones that crumble when you read them and are essentially worthless IMO.

 

 

[TheEyeSees]

Brittle spines ... the silent, invisible menace. Tough to detect sometimes.

[Ze-man]

Brittle spines ... the silent, invisible menace. Tough to detect sometimes.

 

Reminds me of a certain book.

 

 

And is actually a perfect example of brittle pages that are only brittle in one area. I should upload some photos.

 

 

[Ze-man]

It really depends on the degree of brittleness.

 

There are books that are brittle at the edges or in one particular area that was exposed to conditions that the rest of the book wasn't. These books, if handled carefully, are often readable for years to come.

 

Then there are books that are extremely brittle throughout most or all of the book. These are the ones that crumble when you read them and are essentially worthless IMO.

 

I think this is spot on, the term brittle pages conjures up all kinds of horrible images but depending on the book can mean completely different things. I would never buy a book that had badly tanned pages to the point of looking almost burnt but would consider a book that had brittle aspects but was not totally shot.

 

 

And to answer the OP, I honestly think it depends on the book. The damage to most brittle books was done 30-40 years ago from improper storage. Yes the paper will continue to age over the decades, but as mentioned already if stored properly today even brittle paged books will outlast us all.

 

Handling them on the other hand is another story. You can take it out now, or in ten years and the damage would be the same if mishandled imho.

 

[batman_fan]

It really depends on the degree of brittleness.

 

There are books that are brittle at the edges or in one particular area that was exposed to conditions that the rest of the book wasn't. These books, if handled carefully, are often readable for years to come.

 

Then there are books that are extremely brittle throughout most or all of the book. These are the ones that crumble when you read them and are essentially worthless IMO.

 

I think this is spot on, the term brittle pages conjures up all kinds of horrible images but depending on the book can mean completely different things. I would never buy a book that had badly tanned pages to the point of looking almost burnt but would consider a book that had brittle aspects but was not totally shot.

 

 

And to answer the OP, I honestly think it depends on the book. The damage to most brittle books was done 30-40 years ago from improper storage. Yes the paper will continue to age over the decades, but as mentioned already if stored properly today even brittle paged books will outlast us all.

 

Handling them on the other hand is another story. You can take it out now, or in ten years and the damage would be the same if mishandled imho.

 

My major experience with a book that had brittle pages was that although the pages were only brittle on the edges, they were still flaking and the book had to be handled very carefully. I owned it for about 10 years and the pages definitely degraded even though it was stored in a dark cool room in mylar with an acid free backing board.

[50YrsCollctngCmcs]

I have a Vacation Parade #1 that I got in a very unwise trade as a kid. It had flaking pages at the time, such that it actually had lost portions of the edges of many pages in a diagonally increasing fashion. Really should post pictures I suppose.

 

Anyway, back in those early days of collecting someone was selling Vapor Deacidification Paper (VPD paper I think) which I treated the book with in some prescribed manner. I then have stored that book in plastic and mylar for over 35 years.

 

I have witnessed almost no change in it's condition and the deacidification odor still lingers!

 

Jay, if we can connect at Long Beach I will try to bring the book with me and you can take a look.

 

The long term prognosis on the VPD paper must have been bad; I certainly don't hear about it anymore. - - Just went out and grabbed my Overstreet #13 '82-'83 and it was already recommending to stay away from this product.

[ciorac]

You can open them

Read them etc

Just have to handle with a bit more care

 

I was proceeding on the premise of the OP, who said "brittle pages", not slightly brittle on the edges as you qualified.

 

Brittle paged books have already reached maximum degradation and should be avoided, IMO

[G.A.tor]

You can open them

Read them etc

Just have to handle with a bit more care

 

I was proceeding on the premise of the OP, who said "brittle pages", not slightly brittle on the edges as you qualified.

 

Brittle paged books have already reached maximum degradation and should be avoided, IMO

I have cracked 2 cgc "brittle" paged designated books... both books only had problems in the corners (chipping)... the rest of the book was 99% A ok...

 

now, a brittle spine would not be handleable (is that a word ) and a brittle throughout (the kinds that disinegrates in your hand) is not ok, but if he is refereing to cgc designated "brittle", well, many are fine to handle and will outlast us all!

[ciorac]

You can open them

Read them etc

Just have to handle with a bit more care

 

I was proceeding on the premise of the OP, who said "brittle pages", not slightly brittle on the edges as you qualified.

 

Brittle paged books have already reached maximum degradation and should be avoided, IMO

I have cracked 2 cgc "brittle" paged designated books... both books only had problems in the corners (chipping)... the rest of the book was 99% A ok...

 

now, a brittle spine would not be handleable (is that a word ) and a brittle throughout (the kinds that disinegrates in your hand) is not ok, but if he is refereing to cgc designated "brittle", well, many are fine to handle and will outlast us all!

 

I don't see the word CGC in his premise:

 

"How much longer does a book with brittle pages have left?"

 

If you have ever had the misfortune, I have, of having a BRITTLE book, it is not an experience you want to relive. I figured we'd give the OP the straight dope without the qualifiers......call me crazy...

 

[TheWatcher]

If you see little pieces of the book (pages, in particular) in the mylar, then best to leave it be. If you take it out and try to read, who knows how much more damage may be done. if you don't handle it, it may last a while. I guess it all depends how long it's been in a brittle state.

[innocuous]

Thanks for all the responses. The book in particular is my Action 21 (which I was unsuccessful in selling). I can turn the pages, taking extra care when doing so. It is the outer edges of maybe the first and last ten pages that I'm really nervous about.

 

The responses seem to point that any handling is taking a risk of cracking, which seems to be the case.

 

It would be ugly if the spine was brittle, as described by someone else. Should CGC designate what and the extent of how brittle a book is?

 

When I bought the book, the clean resto work and nice cover appeal is what drove my purchase. But, from now on, I think I would have to agree, brittle, in any regards is not worth it.

 

RE: VPD - are there any other treatments to save the paper?

[PokerKid]

It seems very likely CGC would give it the Brittle designation, but slabbing it could be the best thing for it. Once in place, it would have the microchamber paper and be immobilized, possibly maximizing the life of the book. (I realize you know much more than I about these classic books than I, just offering my 2cents)

[Ze-man]

Should CGC designate what and the extent of how brittle a book is?

 

When I bought the book, the clean resto work and nice cover appeal is what drove my purchase. But, from now on, I think I would have to agree, brittle, in any regards is not worth it.

 

RE: VPD - are there any other treatments to save the paper?

 

Sorry to break down your post but wanted to address a few points.

 

Yes, I think CGC could convey better how brittle an interior/cover is because the term "semi brittle or brittle" is the kiss of death. So knowing what part of the book, or to what extent it is brittle might come into play when making an informed purchase. If the outer 3 wraps on an interior were brittle at the spine, or top edge but the rest of the book was solid I would want to know.

 

I think if the book you bought already had resto work done the interior should have also been addressed as well. Interiors can greatly benefit from being washed and re sized. Washing away bad things and introducing things already present in paper can give brittle paper new legs. Of course it would be restored and a turn off to many, even over the brittle original.

 

VPD was bad long term because it could discolor the paper if I remember correctly, anybody? But regarding saving brittle paper..see my above paragraph. Comics are just now being treated like historical documents. And the processes documents have undergone for years to protect/prolong their life can benefit comics greatly, but unfortunately ours is a cost driven hobby wrapped in stigma.

 

 

 

 

 

[PreHero]

Should CGC designate what and the extent of how brittle a book is?

 

When I bought the book, the clean resto work and nice cover appeal is what drove my purchase. But, from now on, I think I would have to agree, brittle, in any regards is not worth it.

 

RE: VPD - are there any other treatments to save the paper?

 

Sorry to break down your post but wanted to address a few points.

 

Yes, I think CGC could convey better how brittle an interior/cover is because the term "semi brittle or brittle" is the kiss of death. So knowing what part of the book, or to what extent it is brittle might come into play when making an informed purchase. If the outer 3 wraps on an interior were brittle at the spine, or top edge but the rest of the book was solid I would want to know.

 

I think if the book you bought already had resto work done the interior should have also been addressed as well. Interiors can greatly benefit from being washed and re sized. Washing away bad things and introducing things already present in paper can give brittle paper new legs. Of course it would be restored and a turn off to many, even over the brittle original.

 

VPD was bad long term because it could discolor the paper if I remember correctly, anybody? But regarding saving brittle paper..see my above paragraph. Comics are just now being treated like historical documents. And the processes documents have undergone for years to protect/prolong their life can benefit comics greatly, but unfortunately ours is a cost driven hobby wrapped in stigma.

 

 

 

 

 

I've always assumed that once a book becomes brittle (pages or cover), that it! You might be able to stop it from degrading further, but nothing can be done to reverse the condition. Then again, I know nothing about paper conservation.

 

Does the washing and re-sizing mentioned above just stop the process or can it actually put some life back into the book? What does "new legs" mean? Would be great if process could be reversed even a tiny bit.

[Ze-man]

Basically it beefs up the paper giving it added tensile strength. The pages are de acidified as well.

 

Areas that are already chipped, split, or near split still need to be reinforced but after wards the page just feels less brittle. It's hard to describe but an interior that has had this done just feels stronger and less chippy. It has not reversed the brittleness but rather supported what is left.(hence my "new legs" comment.)

 

Every book is different of course with many being too far gone to really do anything with. But many otherwise unreadable books can benefit greatly from this process.

 

The book would now be restored of course.