What are the top ten copper keys if we started a portfolio?

[Bosco685]

Probably the most underrated copper book out there...

 

Megaton #3: a very underrated early Copper Age book with a fantastic cover and the first appearance of a very key Image character. Featuring the first full appearance of the Savage Dragon with very early Eric Larson art as well as the first Angel Medina art. Savage Dragon is one of only two original Image comics still running today, the other being Todd McFarlane's Spawn. He's been featured in his own cartoon series on the USA Network and is over issue #150 already. VERY underrated book...just my 2-cents

 

 

 

I hear this book is rare.

 

Well, rare because somebody pretty much bought up every copy they could find. So yes, rare.

[sckao]

Probably the most underrated copper book out there...

 

Megaton #3: a very underrated early Copper Age book with a fantastic cover and the first appearance of a very key Image character. Featuring the first full appearance of the Savage Dragon with very early Eric Larson art as well as the first Angel Medina art. Savage Dragon is one of only two original Image comics still running today, the other being Todd McFarlane's Spawn. He's been featured in his own cartoon series on the USA Network and is over issue #150 already. VERY underrated book...just my 2-cents

 

 

 

I hear this book is rare.

 

Well, rare because somebody pretty much bought up every copy they could find. So yes, rare.

 

And that's NOT a fantastic cover. Dragon's body is borderline Liefeldesque...

 

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

One more thing....if you'd asked me, in early 1990, if Amazing Spiderman #129 would have been a "good investment"...I would have said "heck no."

 

Even though it was the hottest book in the back issue market, it had already achieved most of its potential.

 

Yes, the book HAS gone up in value, quite a bit, since then.

 

But you know what the annualized rate of return is on that book, since 1990, just going OPG to OPG? Say 1990 to 2008 (since I don't have a 2009 OPG.)

 

Approximately 7.7%

 

Not great.

 

And this is assuming you purchased a properly graded Spiderman #129, and most people did not.

 

What performed far, far better in those years?

 

Defenders #1. Marvel Spotlight #5. Iron Man #55. New Gods #1. Forever People #1. Amazing Spiderman #100, 121, 122.

 

And thousands more.

[AGGIEZ]

Probably the most underrated copper book out there...

 

Megaton #3: a very underrated early Copper Age book with a fantastic cover and the first appearance of a very key Image character. Featuring the first full appearance of the Savage Dragon with very early Eric Larson art as well as the first Angel Medina art. Savage Dragon is one of only two original Image comics still running today, the other being Todd McFarlane's Spawn. He's been featured in his own cartoon series on the USA Network and is over issue #150 already. VERY underrated book...just my 2-cents

 

 

 

I hear this book is rare.

 

Well, rare because somebody pretty much bought up every copy they could find. So yes, rare.

 

And that's NOT a fantastic cover. Dragon's body is borderline Liefeldesque...

 

 

 

 

Hater

 

 

[DocGo]

After 10 hours, how am I the first person to mention Bone #1?

 

If TMNT #1 is #1, Bone #1 is definitely #2.

[Jeffro.]

Probably the most underrated copper book out there...

 

Megaton #3: a very underrated early Copper Age book with a fantastic cover and the first appearance of a very key Image character. Featuring the first full appearance of the Savage Dragon with very early Eric Larson art as well as the first Angel Medina art. Savage Dragon is one of only two original Image comics still running today, the other being Todd McFarlane's Spawn. He's been featured in his own cartoon series on the USA Network and is over issue #150 already. VERY underrated book...just my 2-cents

 

 

 

 

C'mon... I like Savage Dragon... but he's green and he's strong. Image's Hulk character... same as Pitt.

 

 

And has another huge drawback, Larsen art.

[jjonahjameson1]

Probably the most underrated copper book out there...

 

Megaton #3: a very underrated early Copper Age book with a fantastic cover and the first appearance of a very key Image character. Featuring the first full appearance of the Savage Dragon with very early Eric Larson art as well as the first Angel Medina art. Savage Dragon is one of only two original Image comics still running today, the other being Todd McFarlane's Spawn. He's been featured in his own cartoon series on the USA Network and is over issue #150 already. VERY underrated book...just my 2-cents

 

 

 

 

C'mon... I like Savage Dragon... but he's green and he's strong. Image's Hulk character... same as Pitt.

 

 

And has another huge drawback, Larsen art.

 

+ 1

[seanfingh]

 

But you know what the annualized rate of return is on that book, since 1990, just going OPG to OPG? Say 1990 to 2008 (since I don't have a 2009 OPG.)

 

 

Using annualized OPG returns to make a point about investment returns, knowing full well what CGC and the internet have done to prices, is like using horse and buggy land speed records to make a point about the Indy 500.

[Sal]

it's valid-ish, though

[seanfingh]

it's valid-ish, though

 

Just like you are clever-ish.

[Sal]

i make no claims to the contrary

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

But you know what the annualized rate of return is on that book, since 1990, just going OPG to OPG? Say 1990 to 2008 (since I don't have a 2009 OPG.)

 

 

Using annualized OPG returns to make a point about investment returns, knowing full well what CGC and the internet have done to prices, is like using horse and buggy land speed records to make a point about the Indy 500.

 

(Ugh. What a terribly exaggerated simile. Cute. But TERRIBLY exaggerated.)

 

Please quote me the 1990 GPA average for Spidey #129 in 9.2.

 

I'll wait.

 

(Now, do I have to add a smiley so you know I'm just giving you a hard time, and am not "butthurt"...?)

 

(thumbs u

 

But seriously, you have to compare like with like...and since CGC and GPA did not exist in 1990, you have to work with what you have. The argument could be made for using OPG data THEN, and GPA data NOW, but I think that's a relatively faulty argument.

 

Anddddd.....when you DO look up GPA averages for this book in 9.2, what do you discover? Last sale = $650, 90 day avg = $689, 12 month = $747, and the 2008 avg = $736.

 

2008 OPG = $700.

 

Funny, no?

 

I have been underestimated yet again....

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

But you know what the annualized rate of return is on that book, since 1990, just going OPG to OPG? Say 1990 to 2008 (since I don't have a 2009 OPG.)

 

 

Using annualized OPG returns to make a point about investment returns, knowing full well what CGC and the internet have done to prices, is like using horse and buggy land speed records to make a point about the Indy 500.

 

But the main point of my post, without getting bogged down in the details of the particular example (which you know I will happily do....details: ), is that buying books that are at or near their peak values NOW is a very bad idea if one is going to "invest" in comics.

 

It's far better to buy what people are ignoring, but which have a resonance to the collecting community.

 

TMNT #1 in the 1990's, for example. Or Cerebus #1.

 

Key Marvel Silver Age in the mid 80's. (yes, folks, there really was a time when Silver Age Marvels were "cooling.")

 

Etc.

[seanfingh]

 

But you know what the annualized rate of return is on that book, since 1990, just going OPG to OPG? Say 1990 to 2008 (since I don't have a 2009 OPG.)

 

 

Using annualized OPG returns to make a point about investment returns, knowing full well what CGC and the internet have done to prices, is like using horse and buggy land speed records to make a point about the Indy 500.

 

(Ugh. What a terribly exaggerated simile. Cute. But TERRIBLY exaggerated.)

 

Please quote me the 1990 GPA average for Spidey #129 in 9.2.

 

I'll wait.

 

(Now, do I have to add a smiley so you know I'm just giving you a hard time, and am not "butthurt"...?)

 

(thumbs u

 

But seriously, you have to compare like with like...and since CGC and GPA did not exist in 1990, you have to work with what you have. The argument could be made for using OPG data THEN, and GPA data NOW, but I think that's a relatively faulty argument.

 

Anddddd.....when you DO look up GPA averages for this book in 9.2, what do you discover? Last sale = $650, 90 day avg = $689, 12 month = $747, and the 2008 avg = $736.

 

2008 OPG = $700.

 

Funny, no?

 

I have been underestimated yet again....

 

I underestimate you at my own peril. And i don't experience butthurt except when i decide to go "Thai hot" with my Pad Wun Sen. I think the main problem that I have, is that the top tier grades artificially elongate the risk/return curve, whereas, as you demonstrated, the 9.2 have behaved relative consitently, even in the postCGC/Ebay era.

 

So I guess my real problem is in thinking that no one would buy these books in 9.2 for investment purposes. That is probably a false assumption. 9.2s end up being nice BBB rated municipals and 9.8s are like growth stocks with untenable P/E ratios. We are all old enough to remember that phenomenon, are we not?

 

Pick your poison.

[seanfingh]

 

And I'm going to reply to myself in the hope that you find it as annoying as I do.

[sckao]

Using 9.2 values when this thread is about starting a " copper portfolio" is disingenuous. You'd probably go for the highest grades you can or go for a minimum grade of 9.4 if we were in Silver. As we're talking about Copper, we're probably talking about 9.8 quality books usually.

 

(So I agree with seanfingh.)

 

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

But you know what the annualized rate of return is on that book, since 1990, just going OPG to OPG? Say 1990 to 2008 (since I don't have a 2009 OPG.)

 

 

Using annualized OPG returns to make a point about investment returns, knowing full well what CGC and the internet have done to prices, is like using horse and buggy land speed records to make a point about the Indy 500.

 

(Ugh. What a terribly exaggerated simile. Cute. But TERRIBLY exaggerated.)

 

Please quote me the 1990 GPA average for Spidey #129 in 9.2.

 

I'll wait.

 

(Now, do I have to add a smiley so you know I'm just giving you a hard time, and am not "butthurt"...?)

 

(thumbs u

 

But seriously, you have to compare like with like...and since CGC and GPA did not exist in 1990, you have to work with what you have. The argument could be made for using OPG data THEN, and GPA data NOW, but I think that's a relatively faulty argument.

 

Anddddd.....when you DO look up GPA averages for this book in 9.2, what do you discover? Last sale = $650, 90 day avg = $689, 12 month = $747, and the 2008 avg = $736.

 

2008 OPG = $700.

 

Funny, no?

 

I have been underestimated yet again....

 

I underestimate you at my own peril. And i don't experience butthurt except when i decide to go "Thai hot" with my Pad Wun Sen. I think the main problem that I have, is that the top tier grades artificially elongate the risk/return curve, whereas, as you demonstrated, the 9.2 have behaved relative consitently, even in the postCGC/Ebay era.

 

So I guess my real problem is in thinking that no one would buy these books in 9.2 for investment purposes. That is probably a false assumption. 9.2s end up being nice BBB rated municipals and 9.8s are like growth stocks with untenable P/E ratios. We are all old enough to remember that phenomenon, are we not?

 

Pick your poison.

 

Mmmmm....I want some satay. Chicken or beef, doesn't matter...

 

Again...just comparing like with like to get a relatively reliable and meaningful result. I truly understand the difficulty in trying to compare BCGC with ACGC data.

 

There simply was no concept of "9.2" or "9.8" as it applied to buying comics in 1990 (or, really, anything before...I would say 2000, but CGC was in infancy, so I'll go with 2003 as the year the general collecting public started to notice.)

 

So using grades like 9.6 and 9.8 to explain rate of return from 1990 is like using the Hubble to explain Saturn to Galileo.

 

Those concepts simply did not exist, and, in an era where what would eventually be a 9.8 sold for the exact same price as what would eventually be an 8.0, and everything in between, trying to discuss "investment" return in those terms is like trying to compare cashmere with apricots. So, we do the best we can with as close to "like" information as we have.

 

And the amount of buyers who could tell the difference between what would be an 8.0 and what would be a 9.8 in 1990? What, maybe 10? 15?

[RockMyAmadeus]

And I'm going to reply to myself in the hope that you find it as annoying as I do.

 

Me? Finding ANY aspect of posting annoying..?

 

That's like...

 

No, no, there have been far too many terrible similes in this thread already....

 

 

(and I was technically just responding to your post twice, not replying to myself...technically....)

[RockMyAmadeus]

Using 9.2 values when this thread is about starting a " copper portfolio" is disingenuous. You'd probably go for the highest grades you can or go for a minimum grade of 9.4 if we were in Silver. As we're talking about Copper, we're probably talking about 9.8 quality books usually.

 

(So I agree with seanfingh.)

 

 

That's not what we were discussing at all.

 

It has absolutely nothing to do with investing in copper in 2009.

 

It was, as already pointed out, merely an example demonstrating that buying "the hottest thing in any particular market" is always a bad idea for "investment purposes."

 

That's all.

 

The "9.2" bears no relation to anything else besides that side discussion.

 

 

[seanfingh]

 

And the amount of buyers who could tell the difference between what would be an 8.0 and what would be a 9.8 in 1990? What, maybe 10? 15?

 

The only thing I can say with certainty is that I had an eye for books destined to be nice looking 9.0s