Do Kirby fourth world books sell?

[Dick Pontoon]

In NM+ or better you should be able to move them, but you'd be hard pressed in lesser condition unless they're discounted or sold in lots. Those books were hoarded like mad by everyone and their brother.

 

I was always had the impression that being second tier titles resulted in lots of overstock, too.

[Zonker]

In NM+ or better you should be able to move them, but you'd be hard pressed in lesser condition unless they're discounted or sold in lots. Those books were hoarded like mad by everyone and their brother.

interesting to know that even in 1971 hoarding was around. I guess hoarding stated in the mid-1960`s?

 

I've read Stan Lee say that hoarding began around '65 or '66. He would have people tell him that they bought multiple copies of comics. Probably why SA Marvels from that point forward are so common, especially in HG

 

To the extent they were hoarded, I assume it was because these were Kirby books and he was already a living legend. As can be seen from the relative uncommonness (in HG in particular) of GL 76 and a lot of other DCs from like 1970 - 1975, clearly not every DC was getting hoarded. You'd think the hoarders would have been all over Neal Adams stuff (given that a guy like Steranko was a big deal shortly after his arrival on the scene), but maybe it took a while to catch on that this guy was a big deal?

Most were into Marvels back then,it was a revoulution that Stan Lee created.Marvel Zombies,Stan had almost everyone believing in Not Brand Echh. So DC comics at the time were considered just a little above Archie but below his standard Marvel.

the irony is a good number of the valuable comics 1966 and up are not Marvel, the reason they were not hoarded. All-Star Western #10 first Jonah Hex comes to mind.

 

Also, the "New #1" syndrome was well in place by 1970. The Fourth World books were Kirby, and they were #1's. A lot today's DC Bronze Age keys were stealth keys, in the sense they were not telegraphed as #1's: GL 76, All-Star Western 10, HoS 92, or pick your favorite Adams Batman key: 232, 234, 251 or Detective 395, 400 or 411. Jimmy Olsen was the Kirby Fourth World exception in that it launched within an existing run, and that's one reason why I think JO 134 bucks the trend identified in this thread.

 

Look at some of the other 1970s DC #1's that were hoarded and now command no real premium: The Shadow, Shazam! and arguably Swamp Thing. I'd also put Tarzan 207 in this category, because while not a #1, it was loudly marketed on the front cover as "1st DC Issue!"

[GACollectibles]

Who is Kirby?

[DrWatson]

Who is Kirby?

Some hack artist from the early sixties... like Ditko. (thumbs u

[GACollectibles]

Who is Kirby?

Some hack artist from the early sixties... like Ditko. (thumbs u

 

Oooooooooo boy, can't wait til Ted logs in!

[Wrightson fan]

Uncouth heathens.

[TheShadowKnows]

Who is Kirby?

Some hack artist from the early sixties... like Ditko. (thumbs u

Wow.That really hurts.

[mschmidt]

Most were into Marvels back then,it was a revoulution that Stan Lee created.Marvel Zombies,Stan had almost everyone believing in Not Brand Echh. So DC comics at the time were considered just a little above Archie but below his standard Marvel.

the irony is a good number of the valuable comics 1966 and up are not Marvel, the reason was they were not hoarded. All-Star Western #10 first Jonah Hex and the Neal Adams Batman comes to mind.

DC outsold Marvel by a huge margin in the 60s - Marvel wasn't even in the Top 10 with any of their titles - so, no, "most were not into Marvels back then"

[GACollectibles]

Who is Kirby?

Some hack artist from the early sixties... like Ditko. (thumbs u

Wow.That really hurts.

 

Had to be there. Spirited discussion in NY. Was amusing.

[DrWatson]

I truly do not like Ditko.

[Dick Pontoon]

Most were into Marvels back then,it was a revoulution that Stan Lee created.Marvel Zombies,Stan had almost everyone believing in Not Brand Echh. So DC comics at the time were considered just a little above Archie but below his standard Marvel.

the irony is a good number of the valuable comics 1966 and up are not Marvel, the reason was they were not hoarded. All-Star Western #10 first Jonah Hex and the Neal Adams Batman comes to mind.

DC outsold Marvel by a huge margin in the 60s - Marvel wasn't even in the Top 10 with any of their titles - so, no, "most were not into Marvels back then"

 

Umm, that's not correct. In the mid-60s, Marvel started clobbering DC's sales, and continued to sell more than DC throughout the 70s, even when circulation for both companies declined.

 

[the blob]

Most were into Marvels back then,it was a revoulution that Stan Lee created.Marvel Zombies,Stan had almost everyone believing in Not Brand Echh. So DC comics at the time were considered just a little above Archie but below his standard Marvel.

the irony is a good number of the valuable comics 1966 and up are not Marvel, the reason was they were not hoarded. All-Star Western #10 first Jonah Hex and the Neal Adams Batman comes to mind.

DC outsold Marvel by a huge margin in the 60s - Marvel wasn't even in the Top 10 with any of their titles - so, no, "most were not into Marvels back then"

 

To a certain extent this might be true, the difference being that Marvels had a big COLLECTOR audience, and thus people who were keeping and hoarding copies.

 

DCs might have been selling better to 8-year-olds who read them, shared with a friend, ultimately trashing them. Leaving fewer surviving copies.

 

Also, what were the actual circulation, rather than print-run, numbers. I like to check those annual statements and it "seemed" like DCs had vastly higher newstand return ratios. If those returns were getting pulped, while it seems from MH II a lot of the Marvel returns were getting stolen/hoarded, that's another factor.

[TheWatcher]

In NM+ or better you should be able to move them, but you'd be hard pressed in lesser condition unless they're discounted or sold in lots. Those books were hoarded like mad by everyone and their brother.

 

I was always had the impression that being second tier titles resulted in lots of overstock, too.

 

Palettes of the stuff. As was stated, the equation was easy: Kirby + #1= Huge speculation. Ask Beirbohm how many copies of New Gods #1 et al he bought at the time. Same goes for Conan #1, another book that was hugely speculated on. Dealers bought crates of the book (a bit of an over exaggeration, but you get my point)

[the blob]

.

[the blob]

Dealers bought crates of the book (a bit of an over exaggeration, but you get my point)

-----------

 

the difference being, the # of "dealers" in 1970 was vastly smaller than today. heck, you barely had any comic shops per se, a couple of folks doing mail order and a few shows around the country. so sure, you had a few guys buying a palette here and there, but it's not like 1992 when you had 5,000 dealers buying a palette of Spawn 1s and Youngblood 1s each.

 

But yes, those DC Kirby books and a couple of other #1s were hoarded like the Marvels of the day if not more.

[JohnT]

What's Fourth World? Is that what comes after a Third World country?

I was just about to ask!!! what's Fourth World??

 

I've read a lot of the books and I really have no idea what the Fourth World was. Jack had very little interest in explaining it or giving refreshers in later issues. It's amazing he got away with it. DC was so proud of having him that they let him go without an editor.

[Zonker]

Most were into Marvels back then,it was a revoulution that Stan Lee created.Marvel Zombies,Stan had almost everyone believing in Not Brand Echh. So DC comics at the time were considered just a little above Archie but below his standard Marvel.

the irony is a good number of the valuable comics 1966 and up are not Marvel, the reason was they were not hoarded. All-Star Western #10 first Jonah Hex and the Neal Adams Batman comes to mind.

DC outsold Marvel by a huge margin in the 60s - Marvel wasn't even in the Top 10 with any of their titles - so, no, "most were not into Marvels back then"

 

Umm, that's not correct. In the mid-60s, Marvel started clobbering DC's sales, and continued to sell more than DC throughout the 70s, even when circulation for both companies declined.

 

Its surprising how many people on here seem to think that. In fact, it was only in the Bronze Age that Marvel pulled ahead of DC (though the trend was clearly in Marvel's favor once the Batman TV show fad wore off)

 

1968

Avengers.....276,951

Batman.......533,450

JLA.............315,500

F.Four.........344,865

Superman....636,400

ASM...........373,303

 

1969

Avengers.....239,986

Batman.......365,782

JLA.............233,000

F.Four.........340,363

Superman....511,984

ASM...........372,352

 

1970

Avengers.....217,394

Batman.......293,897

JLA.............200,715

F.Four.........285,639

Superman....446,678

ASM...........322,195

 

1971

Avengers.....206,478

Batman.......244,488

JLA.............210,108

F.Four.........275,930

Superman....421,948

ASM...........307,550

 

1972

Avengers.....189,961

Batman.......185,283

JLA.............168,871

F.Four.........245,695

Superman....317,990

ASM...........288,379

 

1973

Avengers.....185,039

Batman.......200,574

JLA.............187,051

F.Four.........225,671

Superman....309,318

ASM...........273,204

 

1974

Avengers.....188,084

Batman.......193,223

JLA.............189,392

F.Four.........218,330

Superman....285,634

ASM...........288,232

 

1975

Avengers.....n/a

Batman.......154,000

JLA.............166,000

F.Four.........216,260

Superman....296,000

ASM...........273,773

 

1976

Avengers.....172,813

Batman.......178,000

JLA.............193,000

F.Four.........199,734

Superman....273,000

ASM...........282,159

 

1977

Avengers.....168,164

Batman.......168,164

JLA.............151,982

F.Four.........199,734

Superman.....235,436

ASM...........281,860

 

1978

Avengers.....162,996

Batman.......125,421

JLA.............126,809

F.Four.........177,802

Superman....223,222

ASM...........258,156

[mschmidt]

Most were into Marvels back then,it was a revoulution that Stan Lee created.Marvel Zombies,Stan had almost everyone believing in Not Brand Echh. So DC comics at the time were considered just a little above Archie but below his standard Marvel.

the irony is a good number of the valuable comics 1966 and up are not Marvel, the reason was they were not hoarded. All-Star Western #10 first Jonah Hex and the Neal Adams Batman comes to mind.

DC outsold Marvel by a huge margin in the 60s - Marvel wasn't even in the Top 10 with any of their titles - so, no, "most were not into Marvels back then"

 

Umm, that's not correct. In the mid-60s, Marvel started clobbering DC's sales, and continued to sell more than DC throughout the 70s, even when circulation for both companies declined.

 

 

[Zonker]

It's amazing he got away with it. DC was so proud of having him that they let him go without an editor.

 

Kind of like today with Grant Morrison. (Or Bendis & Loeb in the case of Marvel!)

[DrWatson]

What's Fourth World? Is that what comes after a Third World country?

I was just about to ask!!! what's Fourth World??

 

I've read a lot of the books and I really have no idea what the Fourth World was. Jack had very little interest in explaining it or giving refreshers in later issues. It's amazing he got away with it. DC was so proud of having him that they let him go without an editor.

We had the same lack of editor participation discussion on Saturday night.