And people wonder why folks get a little bit peeved...

[towards2112]

so, the most highly regarded, most experience comic book restorian considers pressing restoration...

 

That's not exactly breaking news. That declaration is years old, and she released it when she became involved in NOD.

But the fact still remains true and is appropriate for this discussion since many in here are claiming otherwise. Likely the most highly regarded, most experienced comic book restoration expert in the world considers pressing to be restoration and should be proactively disclosed.

 

If she had gone to work for CGC (a job for which she was turned down for per Borock) would her position be the same?

 

Susan is a highly regarded professional, I but I no longer consider her to be the most highly regarded, though I do believe she is obviously in the top tier.

How is anyone supposed to guess what someone elses position might have been if a particular situation had been different? After demanding specific proof from the other side of the room, that's the kind of silly question you come up with to try and make a point?

 

And you may not consider her to be the most highly regarded, but that doesn't mean you wouldn't be in the minority.

 

Brad,

 

While I realize that you love Susan and worship her, and while I hold her in high regard, you can no more support your assertion that she's considered the "best" than I can, so stop making it sound like you can.

 

I'm demanding specific proof because you're the one making the claim as you've been screaming for years. There's nothing new here. Do you know what's happened since you began your campaign?

 

More people have started pressing books.

My name isn't Brad...so you're going to have to try barking up a different tree, FK.

 

And you must not be a morning person, because the arguments you were making last night were far more coherent than todays. And as I mentioned before, the pressers are the one manipulating the books and claiming little or no damage. The burden of proof lies on them to back up THEIR claims. Not us.

 

Brad,

I'm a turd head when it comes to proper debate, but if memory serves,

from my high school days, that burden of proof must be demonstrated by those

forwarding the arguement counter to the standard accepted norm.

If you are saying, as 40+ pages continue, that pressing IS detrimental,

then, where is that proof ? Sorry, Susan's opinion or Brian's, or anyone

else's OPINION doesn't matter. Where is the physical evidence ?

CapFreak,

I agree with the part about you being a turd head. You are claiming that the "pressing causes no harm" is the standard accepted norm. Per your own specifications, the burden of proof now lies on you to back that claim up. Where is your evidence?

Brad,

Evidence is in my third bedroom in my personal collection of comic books

and many many many were pressed 30 years ago. I don't see any problems

with them today. And they have not decayed. I'm especially proud of the

Tom and Jerry's and Our Gang. Sorry, I see no problem.

CapFreak,

Please post the proof.

 

Linky poo Spine roll, pressed out circa 1980 by the wife of a roadshow dealer

that did conventions here in the Texas area for 20 years or so. Still flat and

not falling apart. Rebut:

[towards2112]

Clearly the pro pressers have lost this debate. The evidence is mounting against them, by the day.

Both sides are silly for declaring the other side has lost the debate. An ongoing debate is by definition ongoing.

 

Kinda like Congress. God forbid they ever solve all our problems. What

would they do then.

[Dale Roberts]

Clearly the pro pressers have lost this debate. The evidence is mounting against them, by the day.

Both sides are silly for declaring the other side has lost the debate. An ongoing debate is by definition ongoing.

 

Kinda like Congress. God forbid they ever solve all our problems. What

would they do then.

 

Congress creates the problem, not resolves them. They would do the same thing they do now, screw around with interns, pat themselves on the back, and give themselves a raise. The more they get involved, the more screwed up things get.

 

If Congress would just protect our country, fix our roads and bridges, and leave everything else to the people, everything would be fine.

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

Clearly the pro pressers have lost this debate. The evidence is mounting against them, by the day.

Both sides are silly for declaring the other side has lost the debate. An ongoing debate is by definition ongoing.

 

Kinda like Congress. God forbid they ever solve all our problems. What

would they do then.

 

Congress creates the problem, not resolves them. They would do the same thing they do now, screw around with interns, pat themselves on the back, and give themselves a raise. The more they get involved, the more screwed up things get.

 

If Congress would just protect our country, fix our roads and bridges, and leave everything else to the people, everything would be fine.

 

But Dale, what ever would we do without our professional politicans-for-life, if not entrust them to address our every need and whim?

[Flaming_Telepath]

Whether or not CGC has set itself up on an unsafe premise is for the public to decide, not you. Yours is strictly an opinion, as is mine. The public as a whole has accepted CGC and with them their definition of pressing as a non restorative process. The majority has spoken already on this, and whether or not you accept it, the majority of people agree with CGC and disagree with you. Doesn't make it "right", but it does make it how it is.

 

Actually, the 'public' got sold a bill of goods, Dale.

 

CGC was accepted long before the public revelation that they did not consider pressing to be restoration. You weren't on the boards at the time, but when it became clear that the crack, press and resub game was afoot, and Borock finally admitted it was with CGC's blessing, there was outrage.

 

But by then it was too late. Too many people had money tied up in slabs. Too many people were hugely invested in the game to back out.

 

This motion was passed without a vote, it slid in through the back door, and there appears to be no repealling it.

 

What would be very interesting is if we were able to discover how many people would have 'agreed' with CGC's stance before they had 273 slabs cluttering up their play rooms?

[Domo Arigato]

Brad,

Evidence is in my third bedroom in my personal collection of comic books

and many many many were pressed 30 years ago. I don't see any problems

with them today. And they have not decayed. I'm especially proud of the

Tom and Jerry's and Our Gang. Sorry, I see no problem.

CapFreak,

Please post the proof.

 

Linky poo Spine roll, pressed out circa 1980 by the wife of a roadshow dealer

that did conventions here in the Texas area for 20 years or so. Still flat and

not falling apart. Rebut:

Looks more decayed than it should be.

[Domo Arigato]

And to correct something you said, pressing is not the least invasive form of anything. It is completely 100% non invasive.

That's not going to be true, no matter how many times you keep posting it.

[conditionfreak]

"Doesn't make it "right", but it does make it how it is."

 

Same could be said for Congress. So, let's just accept it and go with it.

 

[1koko]

The heat generated by this debate we are having here is in reality not whether something is invasive or not.

 

It really is due to the differentiation in value between a blue label book and a "PLOD" and the massive differentiation in prices due to slight increases in grade.

 

A "Universal" label book is NOT an unrestored book - there are and always have been books with slight color touch or glue carrying blue labels (I have had many and do still own some).

 

As CGC notes color touch and glue on universal labels they could do the same when it detects pressing.

 

The back of a CGC label notes that detection of restoration procedures is not exhaustive (i.e. they only note what they have discovered and that any book in a blue label with no notes doesn't preclude there being any restoration on the book).

 

Furthermore, it may make sense just to eliminate the major issue - the universal versus restored labels and just have the notes that are already on the books.

 

This would allow each buyer to determine what work the book has had done that has been detected and determine a price on whether the work bothers them or not.

 

Those not concerned about pressing will be able to bid for books accordingly and the "true price" of a pressed book can be determined.

 

 

[conditionfreak]

Makes sense but won't happen. Too much investment in the status quo already out there.

[Paratrooper]

Clearly the pro pressers have lost this debate. The evidence is mounting against them, by the day.

Both sides are silly for declaring the other side has lost the debate. An ongoing debate is by definition ongoing.

 

No. Not really.

They have lost. It is ongoing only out of pride. It is ongoing only in the aspect that who killed JFK is ongoing. Not really in dispute any longer but humans like to require confessions, and even then, will not accept an opposing view if they have made up their minds. It's like some guy sitting in his easy chair watching a football game. He decides that a coach made a dumb call and chides him for a year about it (to his buddies). But the coach didn't make a dumb call. It just happened to not work out the way the coach and the fan wanted it to. If it would have worked out, it would have been a great call.

 

I am the fan. The consumer of many of these comic book thingys, and I say that the debate is over "for me". I started out with an open mind about it when I joined this forum. Prior to that, I really didn't have a clue about pressing and had no opionion one way or the other. I collect, buy and sell comic books. My opinion counts. My OPINION now is that this debate is no longer a legitimate debate. Just noise.

 

The debate is won. But, it is a minor thing IMO. I do not believe that pressing is that pressing.

 

What exactly was the debate, again?

 

Who has the biggest schlong.

[whisp]

And to correct something you said, pressing is not the least invasive form of anything. It is completely 100% non invasive.

That's not going to be true, no matter how many times you keep posting it.

 

Humidty aka water has to penetrate the book when some applications of pressing are done. Would this not be invasive?

[Domo Arigato]

 

Does the pro-pressing crowd always get this bent out of shape when they can't shout somebody into submission with insults and name calling?

 

 

 

[KingOfRulers]

And to correct something you said, pressing is not the least invasive form of anything. It is completely 100% non invasive.

That's not going to be true, no matter how many times you keep posting it.

 

Why don't you just make your own grading company? Then you can make the status quo, whatever you want it to be. Don't that sound exciting? Label "pressing" as restoration. Maybe, put a little devil sticker in the corner of the label so that it will be easily identified? With so many complaints towards how CGC conducts their business, you would think that someone would make a company and do things their own way. As it is, it's just a bunch of "yakkity-yak, yakkity-yak, yakkity, yak, yak, yak" that will change nothing.

[Domo Arigato]

And to correct something you said, pressing is not the least invasive form of anything. It is completely 100% non invasive.

That's not going to be true, no matter how many times you keep posting it.

Why don't you just make your own grading company? Then you can make the status quo, whatever you want it to be. Don't that sound exciting? Label "pressing" as restoration. Maybe, put a little devil sticker in the corner of the label so that it will be easily identified? With so many complaints towards how CGC conducts their business, you would think that someone would make a company and do things their own way. As it is, it's just a bunch of "yakkity-yak, yakkity-yak, yakkity, yak, yak, yak" that will change nothing.

It still wouldn't make the statement true.

[Dale Roberts]

Whether or not CGC has set itself up on an unsafe premise is for the public to decide, not you. Yours is strictly an opinion, as is mine. The public as a whole has accepted CGC and with them their definition of pressing as a non restorative process. The majority has spoken already on this, and whether or not you accept it, the majority of people agree with CGC and disagree with you. Doesn't make it "right", but it does make it how it is.

 

Actually, the 'public' got sold a bill of goods, Dale.

 

CGC was accepted long before the public revelation that they did not consider pressing to be restoration. You weren't on the boards at the time, but when it became clear that the crack, press and resub game was afoot, and Borock finally admitted it was with CGC's blessing, there was outrage.

 

But by then it was too late. Too many people had money tied up in slabs. Too many people were hugely invested in the game to back out.

 

This motion was passed without a vote, it slid in through the back door, and there appears to be no repealling it.

 

What would be very interesting is if we were able to discover how many people would have 'agreed' with CGC's stance before they had 273 slabs cluttering up their play rooms?

 

I don't like referring to it as a game, seems a little condescending to me.

 

I don't know that I disagree with you Nick. If CGC could distinguish between books that had been pressed and not pressed, then it would be different. But to me, here is the rub, CGC can see damage caused by improper pressing, whether it be page quality, color and gloss loss, or creasing at the spine or overhang. And they downgrade for that. I believe that is the type of book that can be distinguished from the others.

 

I fully believe that since pressing is NON invasive, CGC determined it not to be restoration. And I happen to agree with them. If you look at intent, it is no different than stacking encylopedias on a book or taking bread and cleaning the book, both of which have been done 1000s of times.

 

Regardless, you can't unbreak the egg, and that makes all of this an exercise in futility.

[Dale Roberts]

And to correct something you said, pressing is not the least invasive form of anything. It is completely 100% non invasive.

That's not going to be true, no matter how many times you keep posting it.

 

Humidty aka water has to penetrate the book when some applications of pressing are done. Would this not be invasive?

 

Humidity penetrates the book every time it is removed from the mylar.

[Domo Arigato]

And to correct something you said, pressing is not the least invasive form of anything. It is completely 100% non invasive.

That's not going to be true, no matter how many times you keep posting it.

 

Humidty aka water has to penetrate the book when some applications of pressing are done. Would this not be invasive?

 

Humidity penetrates the book every time it is removed from the mylar.

So does sunlight in many instances. Might as well store all you books out on the sidewalk.

 

[whisp]

And to correct something you said, pressing is not the least invasive form of anything. It is completely 100% non invasive.

That's not going to be true, no matter how many times you keep posting it.

 

Humidty aka water has to penetrate the book when some applications of pressing are done. Would this not be invasive?

 

Humidity penetrates the book every time it is removed from the mylar.

 

So why add more humidty on purpose if that is what we are trying to stop? I am assuming that is why we are putting our collections in mylars and fullbacks with a dehumidifier if needed.

[KingOfRulers]

And to correct something you said, pressing is not the least invasive form of anything. It is completely 100% non invasive.

That's not going to be true, no matter how many times you keep posting it.

Why don't you just make your own grading company? Then you can make the status quo, whatever you want it to be. Don't that sound exciting? Label "pressing" as restoration. Maybe, put a little devil sticker in the corner of the label so that it will be easily identified? With so many complaints towards how CGC conducts their business, you would think that someone would make a company and do things their own way. As it is, it's just a bunch of "yakkity-yak, yakkity-yak, yakkity, yak, yak, yak" that will change nothing.

It still wouldn't make the statement true.

 

I am not responding to whatever "statement" you are talking about. I am responding to general flood of this: coming from you.

 

If you don't like the way things are categorized by the status quo, than change the status quo. You can be the champion for the good and just DIY (Do It Yourself).