And people wonder why folks get a little bit peeved...

[Domo Arigato]

2) I have an old price guide or CBM (for the life of me, I can't remember which, but I'm pretty sure it was an OSPG) with an article by Susan C. on restoration. In that article she discussed pressing and stated that it is undetectable. I'd like to know what changed so that she now feels it is.

You're going to have to post the article as proof or it doesn't exist.

[Dale Roberts]

I know because I've asked the dealers. Of course some people ask. I'm sure you do, and Chris, and Flaming Telepath(if he buys books that fall into the "might be pressed" category). But ask Richard, or Dale, or Rick, and they'll tell you that the question is asked so infrequently that one can only come to the conclusion that in the real world(meaning off the boards), it's a non-issue. There are probably more people put off by dust shadows than by pressing.

 

Because there is nothing like the level of awareness there is here on the boards in the general population.

 

Because there are huge swathes of the collecting population who only know pressing from Overstreet, where it was classified as restoration for decades, and assume that like any other form of restoration, it would be proactively disclosed at point of sale.

 

 

This is wrong. There is awareness among the collecting public. Most everyone who collects high grade comics knows about pressing. Most simply do not care. If CGC says it is NOT restoration, then that is what they go with.

 

I still don't think I have ever been asked by a customer if a book has been pressed. I have been asked by a couple of board members, who were looking to potentially upgrade a book themselves.

 

I know on one occasion I had a customer look at a raw early number Batman which had previously had a severe spine roll which I had pressed out(which to me screams conservation, as the book will maintain its integrity longer without the spine roll). He asked if the book had any restoration. I told him no it had no restoration, but it had been pressed. I showed him what had been done and he said " I don't care about that" and bought the book.

 

I honestly don't think it is a big deal to the public whatsoever. I don't pro-actively disclose, except here on the boards, simply because it makes an issue out of a non issue.

 

You want disclosure for real. Go to a convention and see who is talking to Joe and Matt. Then the truth comes out.

 

 

[october]

Good God, what a waste of time these threads are......

 

I disagree. I think it's pretty clear that a lot of the "usual suspects" have nothing better to do with their time. It's the only logical conclusion given the fact that they post every five minutes for eight hours straight during working hours on a topic as trivial as this.

 

In any case, these threads make me laugh, so keep them coming!

[Domo Arigato]

This is the reason that CGC give for not considering it restoration...it can't be detected...but that seems to be untrue.

That's not their reasoning for not considering it resto, Nick. They consider pressing a non-additive procedure, and that's why they don't consider it resto. It's right in their FAQ.

WRONG! Nick is referring to exactly what I was referring to earlier. CGC originally said they don't consider it restoration because they have no way of detecting it. They seem to have altered their "official" stance since originally saying that...but it doesn't change the fact that that was their original reason for not doing so. You are wrong, nearmint. Plain and simple.

I have no reason to believe that what you're saying is true. But it doesn't matter, I'm only interested in what CGC's stance is today under its present management. I think Nick is discussing the here and now.

Of course you have no reason to believe it...because it doesn't fit in with what you want to believe. But Nick obviously remembers the exact same thing I mentioned earlier about what they've said in the past. You can choose to believe what you want, but you're still wrong. And I am absolutely interested in what CGC's stance was in the past. Especially a stance that changes as the dollar amounts increase.

To be frank, I'm not all that interested in your opinion. My post was in response to Nick. It's his opinion that I'm interested in.

To be frank right back at you...I'm don't really care if you're interested in my opinion or not. I'm going to give it. You esentially called me a liar earlier regarding this specific issue and now a long time board member has said the same thing I mentioned that backs up what I said. If you want any respect from me...then show a little yourself and at least admit that you might have been mistaken about it.

[Paratrooper]

2) I have an old price guide or CBM (for the life of me, I can't remember which, but I'm pretty sure it was an OSPG) with an article by Susan C. on restoration. In that article she discussed pressing and stated that it is undetectable. I'd like to know what changed so that she now feels it is.

You're going to have to post the article as proof or it doesn't exist.

 

If a tree falls in the woods and no one is around, does it make a noise?

[Flaming_Telepath]

This is the reason that CGC give for not considering it restoration...it can't be detected...but that seems to be untrue.

 

That's not their reasoning for not considering it resto, Nick. They consider pressing a non-additive procedure, and that's why they don't consider it resto. It's right in their FAQ.

 

Jeff, to the best of my knowledge, CGC's original stance revolved around their inability to detect it (if a tree falls in the forest and there's nobody around...). This evolved...got finessed, if you will...over time and I would ask why this should be? Why did it need finessing?

[Foolkiller]

so, the most highly regarded, most experience comic book restorian considers pressing restoration...

 

That's not exactly breaking news. That declaration is years old, and she released it when she became involved in NOD.

But the fact still remains true and is appropriate for this discussion since many in here are claiming otherwise. Likely the most highly regarded, most experienced comic book restoration expert in the world considers pressing to be restoration and should be proactively disclosed.

 

If she had gone to work for CGC (a job for which she was turned down for per Borock) would her position be the same?

 

Susan is a highly regarded professional, I but I no longer consider her to be the most highly regarded, though I do believe she is obviously in the top tier.

How is anyone supposed to guess what someone elses position might have been if a particular situation had been different? After demanding specific proof from the other side of the room, that's the kind of silly question you come up with to try and make a point?

 

And you may not consider her to be the most highly regarded, but that doesn't mean you wouldn't be in the minority.

 

Brad,

 

While I realize that you love Susan and worship her, and while I hold her in high regard, you can no more support your assertion that she's considered the "best" than I can, so stop making it sound like you can.

 

I'm demanding specific proof because you're the one making the claim as you've been screaming for years. There's nothing new here. Do you know what's happened since you began your campaign?

 

More people have started pressing books.

 

 

[Flaming_Telepath]

Good God, what a waste of time these threads are......

 

I disagree. I think it's pretty clear that a lot of the "usual suspects" have nothing better to do with their time. It's the only logical conclusion given the fact that they post every five minutes for eight hours straight during working hours on a topic as trivial as this.

 

In any case, these threads make me laugh, so keep them coming!

 

Long-term unemployed!

[Domo Arigato]

This is the reason that CGC give for not considering it restoration...it can't be detected...but that seems to be untrue.

 

That's not their reasoning for not considering it resto, Nick. They consider pressing a non-additive procedure, and that's why they don't consider it resto. It's right in their FAQ.

 

Jeff, to the best of my knowledge, CGC's original stance revolved around their inability to detect it (if a tree falls in the forest and there's nobody around...). This evolved...got finessed, if you will...over time and I would ask why this should be? Why did it need finessing?

Exactly.

 

God Bless your superiour memory, Nick.

[scottish]

Good God, what a waste of time these threads are......

 

I disagree. I think it's pretty clear that a lot of the "usual suspects" have nothing better to do with their time. It's the only logical conclusion given the fact that they post every five minutes for eight hours straight during working hours on a topic as trivial as this.

 

In any case, these threads make me laugh, so keep them coming!

 

Long-term unemployed!

(thumbs u

 

[mica]

2) I have an old price guide or CBM (for the life of me, I can't remember which, but I'm pretty sure it was an OSPG) with an article by Susan C. on restoration. In that article she discussed pressing and stated that it is undetectable. I'd like to know what changed so that she now feels it is.

You're going to have to post the article as proof or it doesn't exist.

 

If a tree falls in the woods and no one is around, does it make a noise?

Yes. It's a tree.

 

Also for the sake of time, the glass is half full, and the chicken came first.

[Paratrooper]

2) I have an old price guide or CBM (for the life of me, I can't remember which, but I'm pretty sure it was an OSPG) with an article by Susan C. on restoration. In that article she discussed pressing and stated that it is undetectable. I'd like to know what changed so that she now feels it is.

You're going to have to post the article as proof or it doesn't exist.

 

If a tree falls in the woods and no one is around, does it make a noise?

Yes. It's a tree.

 

Also for the sake of time, the glass is half full, and the chicken came first.

 

You're wrong, the glass is always half empty

[Flaming_Telepath]

Do you know what's happened since you began your campaign?

 

More people have started pressing books.

 

 

Come on, Brian, that's weak, mate.

 

That's the old 'shut up or you'll make it worse' defence and I'm not swallowing that. Do you honestly think that's a good reason to not speak out against what you truly believe to be wrong?

[Domo Arigato]

so, the most highly regarded, most experience comic book restorian considers pressing restoration...

 

That's not exactly breaking news. That declaration is years old, and she released it when she became involved in NOD.

But the fact still remains true and is appropriate for this discussion since many in here are claiming otherwise. Likely the most highly regarded, most experienced comic book restoration expert in the world considers pressing to be restoration and should be proactively disclosed.

 

If she had gone to work for CGC (a job for which she was turned down for per Borock) would her position be the same?

 

Susan is a highly regarded professional, I but I no longer consider her to be the most highly regarded, though I do believe she is obviously in the top tier.

How is anyone supposed to guess what someone elses position might have been if a particular situation had been different? After demanding specific proof from the other side of the room, that's the kind of silly question you come up with to try and make a point?

 

And you may not consider her to be the most highly regarded, but that doesn't mean you wouldn't be in the minority.

 

Brad,

 

While I realize that you love Susan and worship her, and while I hold her in high regard, you can no more support your assertion that she's considered the "best" than I can, so stop making it sound like you can.

 

I'm demanding specific proof because you're the one making the claim as you've been screaming for years. There's nothing new here. Do you know what's happened since you began your campaign?

 

More people have started pressing books.

My name isn't Brad...so you're going to have to try barking up a different tree, FK.

 

And you must not be a morning person, because the arguments you were making last night were far more coherent than todays. And as I mentioned before, the pressers are the one manipulating the books and claiming little or no damage. The burden of proof lies on them to back up THEIR claims. Not us.

[october]

Good God, what a waste of time these threads are......

 

I disagree. I think it's pretty clear that a lot of the "usual suspects" have nothing better to do with their time. It's the only logical conclusion given the fact that they post every five minutes for eight hours straight during working hours on a topic as trivial as this.

 

In any case, these threads make me laugh, so keep them coming!

 

Long-term unemployed!

 

If you catalogued instead of posting about pressing, your site would have been up roughly 4.5 years ago.

 

I want to buy some books from you within the next decade!

[Foolkiller]

so, the most highly regarded, most experience comic book restorian considers pressing restoration...

 

That's not exactly breaking news. That declaration is years old, and she released it when she became involved in NOD.

But the fact still remains true and is appropriate for this discussion since many in here are claiming otherwise. Likely the most highly regarded, most experienced comic book restoration expert in the world considers pressing to be restoration and should be proactively disclosed.

 

If she had gone to work for CGC (a job for which she was turned down for per Borock) would her position be the same?

 

Susan is a highly regarded professional, I but I no longer consider her to be the most highly regarded, though I do believe she is obviously in the top tier.

How is anyone supposed to guess what someone elses position might have been if a particular situation had been different? After demanding specific proof from the other side of the room, that's the kind of silly question you come up with to try and make a point?

 

And you may not consider her to be the most highly regarded, but that doesn't mean you wouldn't be in the minority.

 

Brad,

 

While I realize that you love Susan and worship her, and while I hold her in high regard, you can no more support your assertion that she's considered the "best" than I can, so stop making it sound like you can.

 

I'm demanding specific proof because you're the one making the claim as you've been screaming for years. There's nothing new here. Do you know what's happened since you began your campaign?

 

More people have started pressing books.

My name isn't Brad...so you're going to have to try barking up a different tree, FK.

 

And you must not be a morning person, because the arguments you were making last night were far more coherent than todays. And as I mentioned before, the pressers are the one manipulating the books and claiming little or no damage. The burden of proof lies on them to back up THEIR claims. Not us.

 

No, you are the infamous Redhook. You can deny it Brad, but it's you.

[scottish]

so, the most highly regarded, most experience comic book restorian considers pressing restoration...

 

That's not exactly breaking news. That declaration is years old, and she released it when she became involved in NOD.

But the fact still remains true and is appropriate for this discussion since many in here are claiming otherwise. Likely the most highly regarded, most experienced comic book restoration expert in the world considers pressing to be restoration and should be proactively disclosed.

 

If she had gone to work for CGC (a job for which she was turned down for per Borock) would her position be the same?

 

Susan is a highly regarded professional, I but I no longer consider her to be the most highly regarded, though I do believe she is obviously in the top tier.

How is anyone supposed to guess what someone elses position might have been if a particular situation had been different? After demanding specific proof from the other side of the room, that's the kind of silly question you come up with to try and make a point?

 

And you may not consider her to be the most highly regarded, but that doesn't mean you wouldn't be in the minority.

 

Brad,

 

While I realize that you love Susan and worship her, and while I hold her in high regard, you can no more support your assertion that she's considered the "best" than I can, so stop making it sound like you can.

 

I'm demanding specific proof because you're the one making the claim as you've been screaming for years. There's nothing new here. Do you know what's happened since you began your campaign?

 

More people have started pressing books.

My name isn't Brad...so you're going to have to try barking up a different tree, FK.

 

And you must not be a morning person, because the arguments you were making last night were far more coherent than todays. And as I mentioned before, the pressers are the one manipulating the books and claiming little or no damage. The burden of proof lies on them to back up THEIR claims. Not us.

 

No, you are the infamous Redhook. You can deny it Brad, but it's you.

 

Just made me chuckle.

 

[Foolkiller]

Do you know what's happened since you began your campaign?

 

More people have started pressing books.

 

 

Come on, Brian, that's weak, mate.

 

That's the old 'shut up or you'll make it worse' defence and I'm not swallowing that. Do you honestly think that's a good reason to not speak out against what you truly believe to be wrong?

 

Nick,

 

I'm not suggesting anyone should shut up. I'm pointing out the facts: since this campaign has begun, more people press books now than before. And it's not just volume of books being pressed, but rather, more people pressing.

[nearmint]

so, the most highly regarded, most experience comic book restorian considers pressing restoration...

 

That's not exactly breaking news. That declaration is years old, and she released it when she became involved in NOD.

But the fact still remains true and is appropriate for this discussion since many in here are claiming otherwise. Likely the most highly regarded, most experienced comic book restoration expert in the world considers pressing to be restoration and should be proactively disclosed.

 

If she had gone to work for CGC (a job for which she was turned down for per Borock) would her position be the same?

 

Susan is a highly regarded professional, I but I no longer consider her to be the most highly regarded, though I do believe she is obviously in the top tier.

How is anyone supposed to guess what someone elses position might have been if a particular situation had been different? After demanding specific proof from the other side of the room, that's the kind of silly question you come up with to try and make a point?

 

And you may not consider her to be the most highly regarded, but that doesn't mean you wouldn't be in the minority.

 

Brad,

 

While I realize that you love Susan and worship her, and while I hold her in high regard, you can no more support your assertion that she's considered the "best" than I can, so stop making it sound like you can.

 

I'm demanding specific proof because you're the one making the claim as you've been screaming for years. There's nothing new here. Do you know what's happened since you began your campaign?

 

More people have started pressing books.

My name isn't Brad...so you're going to have to try barking up a different tree, FK.

 

And you must not be a morning person, because the arguments you were making last night were far more coherent than todays. And as I mentioned before, the pressers are the one manipulating the books and claiming little or no damage. The burden of proof lies on them to back up THEIR claims. Not us.

 

No, you are the infamous Redhook. You can deny it Brad, but it's you.

 

I don't know, Brian. I never felt that Brad talked in circles like Domo does. And Brad was emailing me yesterday when I brought him up in the thread.

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

I think I'm also correct in saying that Susan claims that she can tell you if a book has been pressed or not? As she has no monetary dog in the fight, as her reputation is unimpeachable, as her expertise is unsurpassed, let's accept that she can.

 

This is contrary to what we're being told by other individuals/bodies who, coincidentally, do have a monetary dog in the fight.

 

Let me put forward a theory...

 

Various forms of restoration are easier than others to spot. Colour touch, tear seals, cleaning...these are not quite as difficult to spot as trimming or, well, pressing.

 

Trimming, when done well, is almost impossible to detect...CGC know this all too well, as they've previously dropped the ball. However, they still attempt to detect it and note the slab accordingly when they are successful.

 

I would suggest that pressing is very, very similar, in that it can be detected, but maybe not in every case...the very, very good jobs might just slip the net.

 

This is the reason that CGC give for not considering it restoration...it can't be detected...but that seems to be untrue.

 

And they can't reliably detect trimming, either, so why not stop trying with this, too?

 

I suspect that the reason why pressing is not looked for is that they don't want to look for it. Not that they can't, but that they won't.

 

Why not? The premier restorer/conservator in the industry deems it restoration and says she can spot it...and not just the weak 'if it's a poor job, we'll see damage and downgrade it'. No, we're talking about the good jobs, the jobs that you're all happy with. Susan says she can still spot them.

 

So what has she got to gain by making these claims?

 

And what has CGC got to gain by denying them?

 

1) This summer, I sat in a hotel room with a couple of people who actively press. The topic of pressing came up with another dealer who had books pressed and did not consider it restoration. The two pressers both vigorously stated that pressing is absolutely restoration. To say that those who press don't consider it restoration is a patently wrong generalization.

 

2) I have an old price guide or CBM (for the life of me, I can't remember which, but I'm pretty sure it was an OSPG) with an article by Susan C. on restoration. In that article she discussed pressing and stated that it is undetectable. I'd like to know what changed so that she now feels it is.

 

I think I liked you better when you just called everyone a dirtbag.

 

Here is what a Pro-Presser thinks: Pressing is restoration. Most of us know it, and won't argue the point otherwise. If well done, it is difficult to detect, though certainly not impossible. However, most of the folks I know consider it to be so incredibly uninvasive as to make the whole point moot. Might one decent press take a few years off of the "life" of a book...possibly, I can accept that. But since that lifespan will still far exceed mine, or anyone else's on these Boards today, I'm willing to chance it. If I sell the book, I'll sell it with full Disclosure of what was done.

 

Do you think I would personally be sending my irreplacable Golden Age books (of which, I've only had a very small amount Pressed) off to be "worked" on if I for a minute thought it would come back looking like a scorched waffle? Or if those White pages would come back looking like they've sat in attic for 20 years? For some reason, its conveniently forgotten that not everyone who presses does it for profit...some of us will trade a higher grade and appeal for our personal books for what might be a shorter lifespan.

 

As for CGC, it is 100% in CGC's best interest to keep the game the way it currently is. We all know it. And as far as I'm concerned, if I'm a buyer of a high grade book, I need to assume its been pressed, with or without disclosure. Sadly, that fact has caused some of our brethren to pack it in and leave the hobby, or limit their enjoyment of it. And that sucks, it really does.

 

As for the Mound City books, you might've just witnessed one of the last few "unpressed" OO collections that will come to market for years. Could we say the same if the books went through C-Link or Heritage? I was surprised some of the books went for GPA or less, considering all the hub-bub around the issue of Pressing. I wouldn't be surprised if these books fetch premiums in the marketplace going forward...provided they remain in their original cases and with their original grades.