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Fraud from a seller -

Started by comicartfan,

142 posts in this topic

skypinkblu

skypinkblu

Posted
Posted
*Sigh*

 

Lesson #1...

 

COUNT the pages...I've missed clipped coupons because I tend to hold the book in the middle so I don't mess up the spine, but one of the first things I was taught..was COUNT the pages

 

Not that I haven't missed a few myself...but if you have the opportunity to buy a book in person, you really need to count them.

 

OK, back to Comics Court...I'm enjoying the intelligent viewpoints.

 

This only works if you know HOW MANY PAGES THERE SHOULD BE in the first place right? :baiting:

 

I've never actually owned a Hulk #181... :sorry:

 

 

 

 

 

Well, yes, but ...there are ways to look that up;) You have that fancy I phone thingy;) :baiting:

 

2 references, Comics. org and

http://twomorrows.com/alterego/media/Golden%20Age%20Index.pdf

 

With Silver Age it's very easy, GA, not so much, but there are ways

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Kevin76

Kevin76

Posted
Posted
Maybe I need to put this in comic book terms in case your mind can't handle a non comic book comparison. You buy a comic book from someone..send it to CGC, comes back a 7.5 Qualified "pages 11&12 missing" You email the seller and he say "you saw the book,I know nothing about any page missing,a deal is a deal" Wouldn't you be mad?

 

Nice insult. Smart.....How about this Kevin: You buy a book as NM 9.2. The book is nice and you love it. You send it to CGC and they call it an 8.5. You want a refund three months later? It was good enough for you the day it arrived but months later it's over-graded and you were cheated? Do you make any decisions on your own or do you want others to tell you when a deal is right or wrong? Do you wait for other people to tell you something is a good deal before you buy?

 

If that Hulk 181 was sent to CGC and they told you the stamp was missing would you hunt the seller down months later for a refund? I bet you would! He ripped you off and CGC had to tell you that?

 

Buy slabbed books only. It sounds like you have little or no confidence in your own grading skills.

 

No, your not paying attention and not seeing from a buyer's POV. If I buy a book that I think is a 9.2 and it comes back UNRESTORED 8.5 then I take it as is. If it comes back Restored (any gade) Then I want a refund. Wouldn't you? You don't see comic dealers like Bob,Ted,Harley or any other dealer selling raw books that if it comes back from CGC restored,the buyer is stuck with it. They don't tell you "Well you should of caught that,all sales final" Sounds like you don't mind getting ripped off.

 

 

Kevin I am paying complete attention. Your cheap shots are not helping your cause.

 

He didn't buy it from Harley or Bob. He bought it on Craiglist. You expect some knob on Craigslist to offer a return policy and treat customers like full time comic sellers? That's is why people pay more and buy from dealers with integrity. You get what you pay for. You went to the second hand shop looking for something new off the rack; you found out the item was missing parts. If the second hand shop takes returns you are OK, if they do not, you own it.

 

If I buy something on Craigslist, especially a $1000.00 comic, I expect it to be less than advertised. You cannot expect a first class no hassle guarantee from a guy that advertises for free and does not care about his reputation. Does Harley advertise on Craigslist? I doubt it. Heck even Craigslist tells you to buy local and know your seller.

 

 

Do me a big favor, avoid any of my sales threads. It's apparent you have no confidence in your own grading skills and complain the first chance anything goes wrong.You want everyone else to cover you arse, you likely assume no responsibility for your purchases. It's always the seller fault.

 

 

 

Trust me, I don't want anything you sell..it's probably missing parts. Your acting like I was the one who bought the book,I'm trying to make a point of no matter what the item is,you should stand behind it,Comicartfan won't jump on here and fight with people...but I will..you seem to have this "tough ^&%" reasoning.The law is designed to protect people from this kind of transaction and local lawyers have told him he has a case,Now the seller has to prove in court that he has no known knowlage of the missing page,what evidence does the seller have? No &^%$ Sherlock he didn't buy it from Harley,Ted,Bob or the Boogyman. How can you make a claim that I have no confidence in my grading skills when..

 

1. You never met me nor ever will.

2. You never seen me grade anything.

 

So how can you even make this assumption? Please back this up,entertain me. Yes, I do expect people to stand behind what they sell. I hope when you buy something and lose a lot of money on it...I hope you lose your car,your comics, your house and your confidence in grading comics.

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skypinkblu

skypinkblu

Posted
Posted
I think we just curse Marvel til the end of days for putting coupons in a book which require clipping! :frustrated:

 

I know, I know, how could anyone have foreseen the value of a funny book back in 1974. hm

 

FWIW - counting pages wouldn't do me any good either though I probably could have just SEEN the freakin' stamp missing in my case. :eyeroll:

 

I did count pages, but I never saw the MVS missing since the page was torn out entirely. Not too mention, I've never looked at the book before...I mean, really, who reads comics !?

 

I AM really sorry about the problem, I don't mean to make light of it, but as to your 2nd question... lots of us, lol...

 

As for the page counting, it's not that hard, but it's amazing how many collectors have no clue how many pages the books should have...I know, because I have gotten too many of them missing pages. Recently a friend had a book CGC'd before noticing that 2 folds were missing.

 

Just figure some good should come out of this...

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nocutename

nocutename

Posted
Posted
Maybe I need to put this in comic book terms in case your mind can't handle a non comic book comparison. You buy a comic book from someone..send it to CGC, comes back a 7.5 Qualified "pages 11&12 missing" You email the seller and he say "you saw the book,I know nothing about any page missing,a deal is a deal" Wouldn't you be mad?

 

Nice insult. Smart.....How about this Kevin: You buy a book as NM 9.2. The book is nice and you love it. You send it to CGC and they call it an 8.5. You want a refund three months later? It was good enough for you the day it arrived but months later it's over-graded and you were cheated? Do you make any decisions on your own or do you want others to tell you when a deal is right or wrong? Do you wait for other people to tell you something is a good deal before you buy?

 

If that Hulk 181 was sent to CGC and they told you the stamp was missing would you hunt the seller down months later for a refund? I bet you would! He ripped you off and CGC had to tell you that?

 

Buy slabbed books only. It sounds like you have little or no confidence in your own grading skills.

 

Wrap your arms around that comic book comparison.

 

Well, I am not really about "changing the rules." I think I am more about, can I hold him accountable ?......Correct me if I am wrong, but I am reading in your post that me, as the buyer, should just accept the fact that I missed the page. I am to blame....Is that what you're saying ? - Should I have caught it ? Probably. But at the same time, there needs to be some sort of accountabilty on the part of the seller. When you read my emails to him, maybe you'll have a different take. Maybe not.

 

It really burns me that he intentionally (in my opinion) misrepresented himself and I knew there was a chance that I would have to eat the loss. It's ok, I've lost more than just the money from this book in this hobby...it's part of the game. I am more furious about his arrogance and reaction. I will post what email correspondense I have from him. I may end up looking foolish, I may lose the 'court case", but I also plan on fighting it regardless. I won't get burned and at least not try to do something about it. Someone thinks it's a fool's errand, that's ok....

 

I don't have the "original ad" per se for Craig's List. It was deleted.

 

Look, I am not going to trade insults with you or anyone else because of thier point of view. It's immature and unproductive. If people want to say they think this or they think that, that's fine....Whatever.....

 

This is exactly what I find just mind boggling. People who have never met each other, have no prior history and in alot of cases on these boards, don't even know the other's real name, throw insults, act childish or instigate arguments over trival stuff like grading skills or which character's breasts are bigger......

 

I guess because I deal with people at end of life, where the familes have to watch their loved ones waste away to a shell of what that person once was that I find the nonsense on these boards so hard to stomach.

 

I have met some incredibly smart people on here, people who I may not agree with, but have learned ALOT. I've made some great contacts and for the most part, I enjoy the conversations. But I won't engage in flame wars......And Kevin76 (or anyone else) doesn't speak for me. Don't lump me into his banter because we're related......

 

rantrant

 

Overall, this really does suck and I hope that the seller makes good on the return. Is the post deleted or just expired? Have you tried contacting someone at craigslist for a copy of the original listing? Just because the listing has "expired" it still is on their servers.

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nochips

nochips

Posted
Posted
Maybe I need to put this in comic book terms in case your mind can't handle a non comic book comparison. You buy a comic book from someone..send it to CGC, comes back a 7.5 Qualified "pages 11&12 missing" You email the seller and he say "you saw the book,I know nothing about any page missing,a deal is a deal" Wouldn't you be mad?

 

Nice insult. Smart.....How about this Kevin: You buy a book as NM 9.2. The book is nice and you love it. You send it to CGC and they call it an 8.5. You want a refund three months later? It was good enough for you the day it arrived but months later it's over-graded and you were cheated? Do you make any decisions on your own or do you want others to tell you when a deal is right or wrong? Do you wait for other people to tell you something is a good deal before you buy?

 

If that Hulk 181 was sent to CGC and they told you the stamp was missing would you hunt the seller down months later for a refund? I bet you would! He ripped you off and CGC had to tell you that?

 

Buy slabbed books only. It sounds like you have little or no confidence in your own grading skills.

 

No, your not paying attention and not seeing from a buyer's POV. If I buy a book that I think is a 9.2 and it comes back UNRESTORED 8.5 then I take it as is. If it comes back Restored (any gade) Then I want a refund. Wouldn't you? You don't see comic dealers like Bob,Ted,Harley or any other dealer selling raw books that if it comes back from CGC restored,the buyer is stuck with it. They don't tell you "Well you should of caught that,all sales final" Sounds like you don't mind getting ripped off.

 

 

Kevin I am paying complete attention. Your cheap shots are not helping your cause.

 

He didn't buy it from Harley or Bob. He bought it on Craiglist. You expect some knob on Craigslist to offer a return policy and treat customers like full time comic sellers? That's is why people pay more and buy from dealers with integrity. You get what you pay for. You went to the second hand shop looking for something new off the rack; you found out the item was missing parts. If the second hand shop takes returns you are OK, if they do not, you own it.

 

If I buy something on Craigslist, especially a $1000.00 comic, I expect it to be less than advertised. You cannot expect a first class no hassle guarantee from a guy that advertises for free and does not care about his reputation. Does Harley advertise on Craigslist? I doubt it. Heck even Craigslist tells you to buy local and know your seller.

 

 

Do me a big favor, avoid any of my sales threads. It's apparent you have no confidence in your own grading skills and complain the first chance anything goes wrong.You want everyone else to cover you arse, you likely assume no responsibility for your purchases. It's always the seller fault.

 

 

 

Trust me, I don't want anything you sell..it's probably missing parts. Your acting like I was the one who bought the book,I'm trying to make a point of no matter what the item is,you should stand behind it,Comicartfan won't jump on here and fight with people...but I will..you seem to have this "tough ^&%" reasoning.The law is designed to protect people from this kind of transaction and local lawyers have told him he has a case,Now the seller has to prove in court that he has no known knowlage of the missing page,what evidence does the seller have? No &^%$ Sherlock he didn't buy it from Harley,Ted,Bob or the Boogyman. How can you make a claim that I have no confidence in my grading skills when..

 

1. You never met me nor ever will.

2. You never seen me grade anything.

 

So how can you even make this assumption? Please back this up,entertain me. Yes, I do expect people to stand behind what they sell. I hope when you buy something and lose a lot of money on it...I hope you lose your car,your comics, your house and your confidence in grading comics.

 

Kevin, you need some anger management. You hope I lose my car and my house because you disagree with me? I should lose what I have to prove you right? I am so far wrong on this issue that you wish me the worst of things in my life? Twisted, very twisted.

 

Dude you need some big time mental help.

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g-man

g-man

Posted
Posted
Kevin, you need some anger management. You hope I lose my car and my house because you disagree with me? I should lose what I have to prove you right? I am so far wrong on this issue that you wish me the worst of things in my life? Twisted, very twisted.

 

Dude you need some big time mental help.

 

(thumbs u

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Flemmings

Flemmings

Posted
Posted
Maybe I need to put this in comic book terms in case your mind can't handle a non comic book comparison. You buy a comic book from someone..send it to CGC, comes back a 7.5 Qualified "pages 11&12 missing" You email the seller and he say "you saw the book,I know nothing about any page missing,a deal is a deal" Wouldn't you be mad?

 

Nice insult. Smart.....How about this Kevin: You buy a book as NM 9.2. The book is nice and you love it. You send it to CGC and they call it an 8.5. You want a refund three months later? It was good enough for you the day it arrived but months later it's over-graded and you were cheated? Do you make any decisions on your own or do you want others to tell you when a deal is right or wrong? Do you wait for other people to tell you something is a good deal before you buy?

 

If that Hulk 181 was sent to CGC and they told you the stamp was missing would you hunt the seller down months later for a refund? I bet you would! He ripped you off and CGC had to tell you that?

 

Buy slabbed books only. It sounds like you have little or no confidence in your own grading skills.

 

No, your not paying attention and not seeing from a buyer's POV. If I buy a book that I think is a 9.2 and it comes back UNRESTORED 8.5 then I take it as is. If it comes back Restored (any gade) Then I want a refund. Wouldn't you? You don't see comic dealers like Bob,Ted,Harley or any other dealer selling raw books that if it comes back from CGC restored,the buyer is stuck with it. They don't tell you "Well you should of caught that,all sales final" Sounds like you don't mind getting ripped off.

 

 

Kevin I am paying complete attention. Your cheap shots are not helping your cause.

 

He didn't buy it from Harley or Bob. He bought it on Craiglist. You expect some knob on Craigslist to offer a return policy and treat customers like full time comic sellers? That's is why people pay more and buy from dealers with integrity. You get what you pay for. You went to the second hand shop looking for something new off the rack; you found out the item was missing parts. If the second hand shop takes returns you are OK, if they do not, you own it.

 

If I buy something on Craigslist, especially a $1000.00 comic, I expect it to be less than advertised. You cannot expect a first class no hassle guarantee from a guy that advertises for free and does not care about his reputation. Does Harley advertise on Craigslist? I doubt it. Heck even Craigslist tells you to buy local and know your seller.

 

 

Do me a big favor, avoid any of my sales threads. It's apparent you have no confidence in your own grading skills and complain the first chance anything goes wrong.You want everyone else to cover you arse, you likely assume no responsibility for your purchases. It's always the seller fault.

 

 

 

Trust me, I don't want anything you sell..it's probably missing parts. Your acting like I was the one who bought the book,I'm trying to make a point of no matter what the item is,you should stand behind it,Comicartfan won't jump on here and fight with people...but I will..you seem to have this "tough ^&%" reasoning.The law is designed to protect people from this kind of transaction and local lawyers have told him he has a case,Now the seller has to prove in court that he has no known knowlage of the missing page,what evidence does the seller have? No &^%$ Sherlock he didn't buy it from Harley,Ted,Bob or the Boogyman. How can you make a claim that I have no confidence in my grading skills when..

 

1. You never met me nor ever will.

2. You never seen me grade anything.

 

So how can you even make this assumption? Please back this up,entertain me. Yes, I do expect people to stand behind what they sell. I hope when you buy something and lose a lot of money on it...I hope you lose your car,your comics, your house and your confidence in grading comics.

 

Kevin, you need some anger management. You hope I lose my car and my house because you disagree with me? I should lose what I have to prove you right? I am so far wrong on this issue that you wish me the worst of things in my life? Twisted, very twisted.

 

Dude you need some big time mental help.

 

Since the OP and Kevin are related. I think he is too close to the situation. I'm pretty sure he doesn't really feel that way. He is more or less upset that someone close to him got screwed and people are saying its the OP fault. He has the right to feel that way. He think he is just going about it in the wrong way.

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VuDuPriest

VuDuPriest

Posted
Posted

Assume that the seller was unaware of the missing page.

 

He is willing to meet in person and allow the buyer to inspect the book, something I would not expect from an outright scammer.

 

The buyer inspects and is satisfied and makes the purchase.

 

Now, days or weeks later, the buyer comes back with this story about a missing page.

 

The first thing that you, as the seller, are going to think is that this guy is switching books and scamming you.

 

No way you would offer a refund.

 

I'm sure we have all unknowingly purchased books with some sort of resto or "modification", for lack of a better word, and I'm sure that some of the sellers knew about the condition at the time of the sale and some did not.

 

 

Point is when you buy raw, especially over the internet, this is one of the inherent risks and sometimes you have to swallow it.

 

My personal rule of thumb is to only buy graded books above a certain price range.

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Inhuman Fiend

Inhuman Fiend

Posted
Posted

Best advice I've seen on here is to count pages...it is really so simple, yet critical to quickly catching most interior flaws. I can tell you that with the exception of giant-size books and those with special advertising inserts (Mark Jewelers, etc...), ALL Marvel and DC comics from the Silver, Bronze and Copper ages have 16 interior pages (or 32 if you count front and back). Period. :sumo:

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Dick Pontoon

Dick Pontoon

Posted
Posted

I'm still confused as to whether the right side of the letters page with the Marvel Value Stamp on it was cut out of the book, or whether the book didn't contain a Mark Jewelers Insert, which only came in certain comics anyway. Can't recall if Hulk 181 even had one.

 

So, here's the situation. I bought a book (hulk 181 f/vf) from a guy that lives near me. I paid cash and I had looked through the book and I did believe it was intact. True, I didn't realize that the Marvel Stamp was missing, I was looking for a piece missing. So, apparently the seller took the whole page out and I wasn't aware.....

 

I just found out that this is missing the Mark Jewel Marvel insert. I guess I should have made sure that page was indeed there, but I wasn't 100% sure...So I basically got :censored: on this by the seller.

 

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Ares

Ares

Posted
Posted
I'm Bruce Wayne in person, but on the forums..I'm Batman! :sumo:

 

Your a Regular Batman

BUT

 

[font:Arial Black]I'M THE GODDAMN BATMAN[/font]

 

You're :whistle:

 

I'M THE GODDAMN BATMAN. I CAN SPELL HOWEVER I LIKE

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