MC1 Pay Copy in Heritage February Auction...again...

[VintageComics]

let's go one more data point back shall we?

 

If you're talking about the JP deal, well he had some bad advice being given to him and he lost his proverbial shirt based on that advice.

 

 

[tth2]

Declining value? It sold in 2006 for $201K & then in 2007 for $205K. I would not call that declining value.

 

West

Considering that JP bought it for a reported $350K? I would.

 

Plus, assuming the buyer at $201K and the seller at $205K was Geppi, even with the extremely favorable consignor terms that he undoubtedly enjoys, it's hard to imagine he didn't lose money in the 2007 sale (although he still came out way ahead after selling to JP for $300K).

 

This is taking the transactions at face value, of course, so there may be all sorts of machinations and insider dealings that make all of this analysis inaccurate.

[Bronty]

let's go one more data point back shall we?

 

If you're talking about the JP deal, well he had some bad advice being given to him and he lost his proverbial shirt based on that advice.

 

 

yeah I think we all know the story. But even still 200k for that nice a copy is not that impressive when considering what similar tec 27s, action1s and superman 1s would generate. Its fallen behind the pack in a huge way. To me its kinda sad and I'm sure you'll agree because if I could have one GA run, value aside, it would be MC/MMC with zero hesitation.

[tth2]

Looks like Gary Keller owned this Marvel 1 (and the More Fun52) that is on the block... Does anyone know him personally? I wonder why he is selling his stuff so soon after he purchased it. He really had a great collection of books that was assembled in about only 5 years. What's his story??

Man, the more stuff I see coming from his collection, the greater admiration I have for his eye. If I had his kind of money, I would've bought a lot of the same stuff. He must have been Heritage's #1 buyer for the past few years. He also clearly did quite a bit of business with Pedigree.

 

I don't know why he's selling everything, but it's really too bad he's doing it so quickly after he bought it.

[Bunky Brian]

The perpetual downward spiral of this book deserves a thread of its own.

 

It needs to be buried in a collection for 10 years. Everyone that could possibly want this book has already had five chances to buy it over the past few years. It needs a timeout.

(thumbs u

[Hedge Collector]

The perpetual downward spiral of this book deserves a thread of its own.

 

It needs to be buried in a collection for 10 years. Everyone that could possibly want this book has already had five chances to buy it over the past few years. It needs a timeout.

 

If that were to happen, do you think interest for the book or this particular book could continue to build up uninterrupted?

 

Are copies of MC1 turning up because overall collecting interest is waning for that book?

 

Or is it the reverse, that collecting interest is waning for that book because it is turning up so often?

[Silver Surfer]

Declining value? It sold in 2006 for $201K & then in 2007 for $205K. I would not call that declining value.

 

West

Considering that JP bought it for a reported $350K? I would.

 

Plus, assuming the buyer at $201K and the seller at $205K was Geppi, even with the extremely favorable consignor terms that he undoubtedly enjoys, it's hard to imagine he didn't lose money in the 2007 sale (although he still came out way ahead after selling to JP for $300K).

 

This is taking the transactions at face value, of course, so there may be all sorts of machinations and insider dealings that make all of this analysis inaccurate.

 

Could you add Bats #1 in that "declining value" category? C-Link sells a 9.0 for $280K a couple years ago and then an 8.0 recently sells for $100k. That's quite the gap for a book that is not even "NM".

[nearmint]

Declining value? It sold in 2006 for $201K & then in 2007 for $205K. I would not call that declining value.

 

West

Considering that JP bought it for a reported $350K? I would.

 

Plus, assuming the buyer at $201K and the seller at $205K was Geppi, even with the extremely favorable consignor terms that he undoubtedly enjoys, it's hard to imagine he didn't lose money in the 2007 sale (although he still came out way ahead after selling to JP for $300K).

 

This is taking the transactions at face value, of course, so there may be all sorts of machinations and insider dealings that make all of this analysis inaccurate.

 

Could you add Bats #1 in that "declining value" category? C-Link sells a 9.0 for $280K a couple years ago and then an 8.0 recently sells for $100k. That's quite the gap for a book that is not even "NM".

 

The Bat #1 9.0 is the highest graded. It shares the top spot with two other copies, but still there's an added premium attached. It'd be interesting to compare page quality on all three copies.

[Aman619]

Looks like Gary Keller owned this Marvel 1 (and the More Fun52) that is on the block... Does anyone know him personally? I wonder why he is selling his stuff so soon after he purchased it. He really had a great collection of books that was assembled in about only 5 years. What's his story??

Man, the more stuff I see coming from his collection, the greater admiration I have for his eye. If I had his kind of money, I would've bought a lot of the same stuff. He must have been Heritage's #1 buyer for the past few years. He also clearly did quite a bit of business with Pedigree.

 

I don't know why he's selling everything, but it's really too bad he's doing it so quickly after he bought it.

 

reminds me of that great commercial with the guy at an auction. He wins a painting, then tells the auctioneer he's like to sell it! Maybe getting there is the point, and once you have it all? ... eh! time to move on. I think Id prefer that be the reason to the alternative that he needs the money.

[Hedge Collector]

Looks like Gary Keller owned this Marvel 1 (and the More Fun52) that is on the block... Does anyone know him personally? I wonder why he is selling his stuff so soon after he purchased it. He really had a great collection of books that was assembled in about only 5 years. What's his story??

Man, the more stuff I see coming from his collection, the greater admiration I have for his eye. If I had his kind of money, I would've bought a lot of the same stuff. He must have been Heritage's #1 buyer for the past few years. He also clearly did quite a bit of business with Pedigree.

 

I don't know why he's selling everything, but it's really too bad he's doing it so quickly after he bought it.

 

How many of his books in the Heritage Nov auction hammered for a higher price than his original price?

 

Of all the books I saw in his collection, though the SC22 hammered quite a bit higher than his original price, it was the only one of the ones I was watching.

[tth2]

Declining value? It sold in 2006 for $201K & then in 2007 for $205K. I would not call that declining value.

 

West

Considering that JP bought it for a reported $350K? I would.

 

Plus, assuming the buyer at $201K and the seller at $205K was Geppi, even with the extremely favorable consignor terms that he undoubtedly enjoys, it's hard to imagine he didn't lose money in the 2007 sale (although he still came out way ahead after selling to JP for $300K).

 

This is taking the transactions at face value, of course, so there may be all sorts of machinations and insider dealings that make all of this analysis inaccurate.

 

Could you add Bats #1 in that "declining value" category? C-Link sells a 9.0 for $280K a couple years ago and then an 8.0 recently sells for $100k. That's quite the gap for a book that is not even "NM".

I don't know if you can compare an 8.0 sale to a 9.0 sale and somehow infer that the price is declining. But you can certainly count me as one of the people who thinks that Batman #1 is way overpriced.

[tth2]

Looks like Gary Keller owned this Marvel 1 (and the More Fun52) that is on the block... Does anyone know him personally? I wonder why he is selling his stuff so soon after he purchased it. He really had a great collection of books that was assembled in about only 5 years. What's his story??

Man, the more stuff I see coming from his collection, the greater admiration I have for his eye. If I had his kind of money, I would've bought a lot of the same stuff. He must have been Heritage's #1 buyer for the past few years. He also clearly did quite a bit of business with Pedigree.

 

I don't know why he's selling everything, but it's really too bad he's doing it so quickly after he bought it.

 

How many of his books in the Heritage Nov auction hammered for a higher price than his original price?

 

Of all the books I saw in his collection, though the SC22 hammered quite a bit higher than his original price, it was the only one of the ones I was watching.

Flash 111 too.

 

But I think the answer is generally very few, particularly after you factor in BP, even if he undoubtedly got a very favorable deal from Heritage.

[Silver Surfer]

Declining value? It sold in 2006 for $201K & then in 2007 for $205K. I would not call that declining value.

 

West

Considering that JP bought it for a reported $350K? I would.

 

Plus, assuming the buyer at $201K and the seller at $205K was Geppi, even with the extremely favorable consignor terms that he undoubtedly enjoys, it's hard to imagine he didn't lose money in the 2007 sale (although he still came out way ahead after selling to JP for $300K).

 

This is taking the transactions at face value, of course, so there may be all sorts of machinations and insider dealings that make all of this analysis inaccurate.

 

Could you add Bats #1 in that "declining value" category? C-Link sells a 9.0 for $280K a couple years ago and then an 8.0 recently sells for $100k. That's quite the gap for a book that is not even "NM".

I don't know if you can compare an 8.0 sale to a 9.0 sale and somehow infer that the price is declining. But you can certainly count me as one of the people who thinks that Batman #1 is way overpriced.

 

I agree its way overpriced but I use the Bats as comparison because the C-Link Bats #1 and the JP Mint MC #1 sales has similarities. Both highest graded 9.0 copies, both probably way over paid, and both sales are proving to be anomalies in terms of overall values in similar/surrounding grades.

[nearmint]

Declining value? It sold in 2006 for $201K & then in 2007 for $205K. I would not call that declining value.

 

West

Considering that JP bought it for a reported $350K? I would.

 

Plus, assuming the buyer at $201K and the seller at $205K was Geppi, even with the extremely favorable consignor terms that he undoubtedly enjoys, it's hard to imagine he didn't lose money in the 2007 sale (although he still came out way ahead after selling to JP for $300K).

 

This is taking the transactions at face value, of course, so there may be all sorts of machinations and insider dealings that make all of this analysis inaccurate.

 

Could you add Bats #1 in that "declining value" category? C-Link sells a 9.0 for $280K a couple years ago and then an 8.0 recently sells for $100k. That's quite the gap for a book that is not even "NM".

I don't know if you can compare an 8.0 sale to a 9.0 sale and somehow infer that the price is declining. But you can certainly count me as one of the people who thinks that Batman #1 is way overpriced.

 

I agree its way overpriced but I use the Bats as comparison because the C-Link Bats #1 and the JP Mint MC #1 sales has similarities. Both highest graded 9.0 copies, both probably way over paid, and both sales are proving to be anomalies in terms of overall values in similar/surrounding grades.

 

Except the vast majority of the general public are very familiar with Batman & The Joker, but have no knowledge of the characters in Marvel Comics #1.

 

What should a Batman #1 CGC 9.0 be worth?

[Silver Surfer]

Declining value? It sold in 2006 for $201K & then in 2007 for $205K. I would not call that declining value.

 

West

Considering that JP bought it for a reported $350K? I would.

 

Plus, assuming the buyer at $201K and the seller at $205K was Geppi, even with the extremely favorable consignor terms that he undoubtedly enjoys, it's hard to imagine he didn't lose money in the 2007 sale (although he still came out way ahead after selling to JP for $300K).

 

This is taking the transactions at face value, of course, so there may be all sorts of machinations and insider dealings that make all of this analysis inaccurate.

 

Could you add Bats #1 in that "declining value" category? C-Link sells a 9.0 for $280K a couple years ago and then an 8.0 recently sells for $100k. That's quite the gap for a book that is not even "NM".

I don't know if you can compare an 8.0 sale to a 9.0 sale and somehow infer that the price is declining. But you can certainly count me as one of the people who thinks that Batman #1 is way overpriced.

 

I agree its way overpriced but I use the Bats as comparison because the C-Link Bats #1 and the JP Mint MC #1 sales has similarities. Both highest graded 9.0 copies, both probably way over paid, and both sales are proving to be anomalies in terms of overall values in similar/surrounding grades.

 

Except the vast majority of the general public are very familiar with Batman & The Joker, but have no knowledge of the characters in Marvel Comics #1.

 

What should a Batman #1 CGC 9.0 be worth?

 

Not 2.8x's an 8.0 copy.

[nearmint]

Declining value? It sold in 2006 for $201K & then in 2007 for $205K. I would not call that declining value.

 

West

Considering that JP bought it for a reported $350K? I would.

 

Plus, assuming the buyer at $201K and the seller at $205K was Geppi, even with the extremely favorable consignor terms that he undoubtedly enjoys, it's hard to imagine he didn't lose money in the 2007 sale (although he still came out way ahead after selling to JP for $300K).

 

This is taking the transactions at face value, of course, so there may be all sorts of machinations and insider dealings that make all of this analysis inaccurate.

 

Could you add Bats #1 in that "declining value" category? C-Link sells a 9.0 for $280K a couple years ago and then an 8.0 recently sells for $100k. That's quite the gap for a book that is not even "NM".

I don't know if you can compare an 8.0 sale to a 9.0 sale and somehow infer that the price is declining. But you can certainly count me as one of the people who thinks that Batman #1 is way overpriced.

 

I agree its way overpriced but I use the Bats as comparison because the C-Link Bats #1 and the JP Mint MC #1 sales has similarities. Both highest graded 9.0 copies, both probably way over paid, and both sales are proving to be anomalies in terms of overall values in similar/surrounding grades.

 

Except the vast majority of the general public are very familiar with Batman & The Joker, but have no knowledge of the characters in Marvel Comics #1.

 

What should a Batman #1 CGC 9.0 be worth?

 

Not 2.8x's an 8.0 copy.

 

If there were a 9.2 or higher Bat #1 out there, I'd agree with you. But a 9.0 going for 2.8 times what an 8.0 goes for when the 9.0 is the highest graded doesn't seem out of line to me.

[rob_react]

let's go one more data point back shall we?

 

If you're talking about the JP deal, well he had some bad advice being given to him and he lost his proverbial shirt based on that advice.

 

 

yeah I think we all know the story. But even still 200k for that nice a copy is not that impressive when considering what similar tec 27s, action1s and superman 1s would generate. Its fallen behind the pack in a huge way. To me its kinda sad and I'm sure you'll agree because if I could have one GA run, value aside, it would be MC/MMC with zero hesitation.

 

It's definitely sad. 9.0 Marvel #1s sell FOR BELOW GUIDE. We go off the deep-end imagining what a high grade Action #1 or Detective #27 would sell for all the time and even the most bearish amongst us (is that me? I'd hate to think so, but I feel like I'm on the low end of numbers more often than not) doesn't start that discussion with "I think that 9.0 Action #1 will struggle to make vf/nm guide..."

 

 

[rob_react]

The perpetual downward spiral of this book deserves a thread of its own.

 

It needs to be buried in a collection for 10 years. Everyone that could possibly want this book has already had five chances to buy it over the past few years. It needs a timeout.

 

Huh!?! I just don't get this at all. If "everyone that could possible want this book has had five chances to buy it" than the declining value of the book would appear to be commiserate with the (lack of) demand.

 

Why would the demand increase in 10 years? If anything, there would appear to be a reasonable risk that the pool of collectors that are both interested in very expensive Timely Comics and have the wherewithall to buy them will probably be a smaller pool ten years from now then today, and the supply of MC 1s on the market might well increase as their current owners of get older and they or their survivors liquidate collections amassed twenty to forty years ago.

 

Hype. Excitement.

 

I do the work I do because I'm excited about comic books- in particular old, valuable comics. Even I'm bored of seeing this book in particular and Marvel #1s in general up for auction after this decade of availability. These are auctions, auctions needs hype and excitement to drive people past the point of logic and into that wonderful realm of "I've got to have this book." No Marvel #1, outside of the church copy, is going to generate real excitement for the foreseeable future. I'd love to be wrong about that, but I just don't see it.

[rob_react]

The perpetual downward spiral of this book deserves a thread of its own.

 

It needs to be buried in a collection for 10 years. Everyone that could possibly want this book has already had five chances to buy it over the past few years. It needs a timeout.

 

If that were to happen, do you think interest for the book or this particular book could continue to build up uninterrupted?

 

Are copies of MC1 turning up because overall collecting interest is waning for that book?

 

Or is it the reverse, that collecting interest is waning for that book because it is turning up so often?

 

I don't know that collector interest in this book is waning, so much as availability is altering the perception of the book. We shrug our shoulders now and say "oh jeez, another high grade Marvel #1, whenever one is offered up for auction."

 

If the perception flipped and Marvel #1s once again felt "rare," then there'd be more excitement/competition when one came up for sale.

 

I think part of what's happened over the past few years is people have bought these books seeing them as "bargains" and then, for one reason or another, they've all been forced to sell before the book had a chance to rebound.

[rob_react]

Declining value? It sold in 2006 for $201K & then in 2007 for $205K. I would not call that declining value.

 

West

Considering that JP bought it for a reported $350K? I would.

 

Plus, assuming the buyer at $201K and the seller at $205K was Geppi, even with the extremely favorable consignor terms that he undoubtedly enjoys, it's hard to imagine he didn't lose money in the 2007 sale (although he still came out way ahead after selling to JP for $300K).

 

This is taking the transactions at face value, of course, so there may be all sorts of machinations and insider dealings that make all of this analysis inaccurate.

 

Could you add Bats #1 in that "declining value" category? C-Link sells a 9.0 for $280K a couple years ago and then an 8.0 recently sells for $100k. That's quite the gap for a book that is not even "NM".

I don't know if you can compare an 8.0 sale to a 9.0 sale and somehow infer that the price is declining. But you can certainly count me as one of the people who thinks that Batman #1 is way overpriced.

 

I agree its way overpriced but I use the Bats as comparison because the C-Link Bats #1 and the JP Mint MC #1 sales has similarities. Both highest graded 9.0 copies, both probably way over paid, and both sales are proving to be anomalies in terms of overall values in similar/surrounding grades.

 

Except the vast majority of the general public are very familiar with Batman & The Joker, but have no knowledge of the characters in Marvel Comics #1.

 

What should a Batman #1 CGC 9.0 be worth?

 

Not 2.8x's an 8.0 copy.

 

If there were a 9.2 or higher Bat #1 out there, I'd agree with you. But a 9.0 going for 2.8 times what an 8.0 goes for when the 9.0 is the highest graded doesn't seem out of line to me.

 

Yeah, I'm 100% okay with that price.

 

For what it's worth, Batman #1, at least as far as the general public is concerned, is a far more important book than pretty much any Timely. 1st Catwoman and the Joker? Batman #1? "ooh, wow"