Original Art: I thought I'd share my most recent purchase....

[heartened]

Hi guys,

 

Just picked up the cover to Infinity Gauntlet #3. I'm sure there are a bunch of Thanos and Surfer fans out there, so I figured many of you would like to see it. I really loved the Infinity Gauntlet when it came out in '91. In fact, this series got me interested in reading comic books again, after a brief hiatus in college.

 

There hasn't been an original art thread in a little while, so I figured this may spark one. Anyone else ready to make the jump from books to art? Why collect photocopies when you can buy the real deal?

 

http://www.nighthawkcomics.com/art/IG3.jpg

 

Best,

[murph0]

I was ready but then I saw the prices

The only thing I'm interested in are the covers and the prices for most of those covers are unjustifiably high IMO.

 

Brian

[FlyingDonut]

am talking to Will about some Perez FF stuff, hopefully we'll close the deal!

[deathlok]

Great ART!!

 

I think Perez does some of the best Assemblage pieces.

[Ares]

Hi guys,

 

Just picked up the cover to Infinity Gauntlet #3. I'm sure there are a bunch of Thanos and Surfer fans out there, so I figured many of you would like to see it. I really loved the Infinity Gauntlet when it came out in '91. In fact, this series got me interested in reading comic books again, after a brief hiatus in college.

 

There hasn't been an original art thread in a little while, so I figured this may spark one. Anyone else ready to make the jump from books to art? Why collect photocopies when you can buy the real deal?

 

http://www.nighthawkcomics.com/art/IG3.jpg

 

Best,

 

If I may ask...How much?

[Kevin Boyd]

That's a very interesting piece.

 

I recently purchased the color guide for that very cover. At the time of purchase I was contacted by e-bay buyer/seller bengrimm to tell me that he had that cover and was quite disappointed that I had outbid him on it, so I'm very surprised to hear, two months later, that he sold it.

 

I prefer to collect original art myself if the price is right.

 

Kev

[delekkerste]

I was ready but then I saw the prices

The only thing I'm interested in are the covers and the prices for most of those covers are unjustifiably high IMO.

 

Brian

 

 

Here's a great post from the ComicArt-L list by a guy who shares some of your sentiments, Murph, including your contention that comic artwork is overpriced relative to real artwork (I largely agree with this myself).

 

 

From: Bill Thomson

Date: Sat Jan 31, 2004 7:39 pm

Subject: Comic Art Market Analysis/ Art Prices

 

I don't qualify as an expert or long time collector but I will throw my two cents in anyways because I think this subject is very interesting. My perspective primarily centers around my interests in 70's comic art which is my area of interest. Just in my five years of collecting, I have seen comic art prices skyrocket. However, I think anyone that views comic art as a long term investment is nuts. Sure, there is a lot of comic art that will will have historical significance to the genre and retain value but I am of the opinion that this hobby is largely driven by sentiment- I know it is for me.

 

I think that when you compare comic art prices to comparable and often higher quality work done in other illustration markets (from similar and earlier periods), prices are greatly skewed in favor of comic art. I believe this is largely due to sentiment and the fanatic nature of comic collectors in general... the thrill of owning a page from a comic that you loved and read as a kid. I don't mean to imply that there is anything wrong with that because people should enjoy what makes them happy. I do. But I think in terms of investment, when evaluated by people in the future that don't have the sentimental attachment to the art and creators, comic art prices will not hold up in the long term.

 

I know I have personally paid much, much more for comic art than I ever imagined that I would and have been fortunate to build a small collection of pieces with tremendous personal sentimental attachment to me. However, I have made every purchase with the expectation that I would never get any "return on my investment" whatsoever. Nor do I care. I have no intention of parting with most of it during my lifetime, because it has great sentimental significance to me personally.

 

I have had two rules that I follow as a collector in this ever-more-expensive hobby: keep only what I can display on my wall and don't cause finacial strain on my family. I have paid for everything in my collection by selling parts of my childhood comic collection or trading/selling other original pieces that I acquired (and loved) to purchase ones that I liked even better. And man, I have traded some stuff that I really liked!

 

When I see how comic prices have escalated, I am reminded of what happened in the early 90's with comics. It can be argued that comic art is a "one of a kind item". But many of the expensive pages by major artists are mediocre or weak (they were telling a story). And there is a huge supply of art by the majority of the highly regarded artists (monthly pages times years of creating) so I think the supply vs. demand is bound to shift dramatically. When the sentimental factor is removed and the art is evaluated by the next generation of collectors (not having that attachment to the comics/artists) prices will fall. I would not be at all surprised to see a major crash in prices before then. It doesn't effect me either way- regardless of what happens in the comic art market, my little collection will remain happily on my walls and these artists and comics will remain special to me.

 

Best,

Bill

[awe4one]

Isn't this true of any collectible market? The emotional and nostalgia attachment will always drive collectors to pay more than reasonable prices.

 

Not disregarding his comments in anyway. I actually agree with them myself. Nonetheless, you could replace "original art" with any collectible.....

 

Jim

[harveyfan323]

Wow, nice collection...you have some great pages from legendary runs, like the Ditko Spidey page, the Adams Batman, Bolland Batman, Adams X-Men, etc, etc...very impressive and I'm sure you enjoy your collection a great deal.

[heartened]

HI,

 

Willl's a great guy and a personal friend. I'm sure you'll be happy with your purchase. Tell him I say 'hi'. We're meeting up next weekend.

[heartened]

Hi Kev,

 

I bought the cover from "bengrimm". He is a friend of mine, and only sold it because (a) he bought something else that was more personally meaningful and he had to raise significant cash and (b) he knew that selling to me would mean that it'll be in a good home for a long, long time. I'm sure you know that in most collectibles, people often have to sell some items to raise money. And, it's easier and quicker to sell a high-ticket item like this cover than it is to sell 50 cheaper pieces. He knew I've been interested in it for some time, too. And, again, like I said... we're friends.

 

That being said, I'm still surprised too that he sold it. He's is mainly a Perez collector, so now he's left without a cover example from this important series (important in Perez's career, at least). The other covers are locked away in permanent collections. The #2, as you may have seen, just sold about a month ago on ebay. Not as nice a cover, though, in my opinion. That one sold to a comic art dealer, so you may see it changing hands again in the future.

 

Out of curiosity, what did the color guide sell for on ebay?

[heartened]

Hi,

 

Sure you may ask!

 

Put it this way, the #2 sold to a dealer last month for 5500. The #3 is a much better and memorable cover (in my opinion). In fact, it was used as a poster and as a T-shirt design in 1991. So, I paid more.

[COMICKINGS]

Isn't this true of any collectible market? The emotional and nostalgia attachment will always drive collectors to pay more than reasonable prices.

 

Not disregarding his comments in anyway. I actually agree with them myself. Nonetheless, you could replace "original art" with any collectible.....

 

Jim

 

Supply & demand.The same as any collectible as Jim said. I'd love to have a piece of cover art from every title I loved as a kid.Unfortunately there are 1000 other people that want the same thing.But also if you have expensive tastes then you know your gonna have to pay.I see Mr.Thomson likes early '70's Hulk & Fantastic Four stuff...well.doesn't just about everybody else that read books from that era?And you can thank Ebay for throwing gasoline on the fire of original art in the last 5 years.You can't expect to get all of that stuff for $100-$200 a page.It's one of a kind.There are just too many people all around the world lined up waiting for something nice to pop up in auction.There are REAL crazy people paying 10x guide just for a high grade CGC copy of the comic book they made 2-300,000 copies of.You might be waiting your whole lifetime for this bubble to burst.Guys that were kids in the '70's & '80's are now the guys in the market with the extra money to pay crazy prices for stuff like original art from books they remember as a kid.Be happy with the stuff you've bought up to this point,and realise you haven't lost any money on them.And you could sell them for probably more than what you have paid.It is an investment whether you want to look at it like that or not.Would you pay $25k for a cover that is really woth $10k just because you liked it and want to hang it on your wall??Because some guy had it and you HAD to have it?Probably not because you know you would lose your $$$ big time if you ever had to get rid of it.Unless you have unlimited funds,and don't care.Then it's because of guys like that that help drive markets up.You're in the wrong market Mr.Thomson if you're looking for deals. I'm not trying to rag on you so don't take it personal if you ever read this as most people wish the prices for this stuff was alot cheaper than it is. And I have to give it up to you on your own artwork that you did...very nice stuff!

[heartened]

Hi Gene,

 

I don't think you can make the argument that comic art is overpriced compared to "real art". I mean, are not comic books themselves overpriced compared to "real books"?

 

Let's not get too serious about a non-serious hobby. We're all paying way too much on funny books and funny book art. Someone outside the hobby would think we're ALL nuts. It's just a matter of personal preference.

 

I'm not sure why people see the need to compare these two hobbies. Six of one, and half a dozen of the other, right?

 

Best,

[dam60]

Hari, you know I love that piece and that series! Although if I had the pieces that you had, I would probably sell them all and buy the nicest Tec 27 that I could!

 

But heh, that's why you are you and I'm me

 

Great piece,

 

DAM

[Kevin Boyd]

I think I paid somewhere in the neighbourhood of $80-100 for it, including shipping.

 

Kev

[delekkerste]

Isn't this true of any collectible market? The emotional and nostalgia attachment will always drive collectors to pay more than reasonable prices.

 

Not disregarding his comments in anyway. I actually agree with them myself. Nonetheless, you could replace "original art" with any collectible.....

 

Jim

 

In some ways, Jim, you prove my point and the point of others - comic artwork has become priced more like a fanboy-fueled collectible and less like real artwork. If you were to do break down the factors that drive comic art values, I think nostalgia accounts for the overwhelming majority of value (as with all collectibles), while artistic quality (not vs. other comic art, but vs. other art types) plays a much smaller role than with other art sectors. Most comic art is (a) small, (b) black and white, © cluttered with panels, logos, stats, word balloons, illustration board logos, etc., (d) incomplete, being 1/22nd of a greater whole, (e) not impressive to most people outside of the fan base nor in great presentable condition (corners cut, yellowing, white-out, comments in the margins, blue lines showing, etc.) and (f) often shows a bunch of grown adults zipping around with their underwear on the outside, often in ridiculous situations. Personally, I am skeptical that comic art will, as a result of these factors, ever gain enough respect from the general art collecting community to reach the next level of valuations, and I think today's current prices are really starting to stretch the buying power of the fanboy base. IMHO.

 

As I was perusing through Frank Frazetta's "ICON" at the bookstore yesterday, it hit me like a sledgehammer that most "great comic book artists" are not, in fact, "great artists" - of course Frazetta is (I was absolutely blown away by the book), but most other big names would not make the cut in my book. If people want to pay up for nostalgia pieces, that's fine (I, of course, have been known to do so myself and am absolutely not telling anyone to do otherwise). However, even as I continue to be an avid comic art collector, I think Murph0 is absolutely right by saying that, at today's prices, you are paying a lot of money (as a result of fanboy frenzied nostalgia) for what are often pretty mediocre pieces of art in the greater scheme of things. And no, I didn't think the day would ever come when I would be agreeing so vigorously with Murph0 on a subject so near and dear to my heart, but I'm more than willing to acknowledge when someone is right!

 

Gene

[delekkerste]

Some more interesting posts from the ComicArt-L list:

 

Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 05:27:57 -0000

From: "comicartwrangler"

Subject: Re: Comic Art Market Analysis/ Art Prices

 

Benny...we collect from nostalgia. That nostalgia just isn't there for kids coming up now who might NEVER open up a comic. Do you really think that some of the prices realised in the Byrne market are driven by artistic quality? Heck no...its all about what revved your motor when you were a kid. As the comic industry continues to implode, so goes the future of original art collecting. Sure there will be some carryover...but those will be the same tiny minority that collects old time radio now...or Big Band records....the fringe of the fringe....

 

RGL

 

 

Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 04:27:45 -0000

From: "alamocitycomics"

Subject: Re: Comic Art Market Analysis/ Art Prices

 

Good question. As for me, I have two nephews that are young men and have no interest whatsoever in this hobby, much less comic books....and I've taken them countless times during their childhood to conventions. They've seen my collection and inventory and could care less about it. They've told me so. My step-daughter is more into music, friends, fashion and boys. She's 16 and has first hand knowledge of my "stuff." Her attitude: who cares! That's for geeks anyway.

 

I have many cousins who also are aware of my "stuff" and not one of them, not one, collects comic books or original art. Yeah...I could pass my "stuff" down to my nephews but it won't be enjoyed as I have enjoyed it. Those guys will probably sell my "stuff" just to get some fast cash for other things like Nintendo, Sony Playstation, etc. The possibility is there and I'm not denying it...all I'm saying is that it's very difficult to pass on your enthusiasm and appreciation to those of a different generation.

 

Mark

[delekkerste]

Let's not get too serious about a non-serious hobby. We're all paying way too much on funny books and funny book art. Someone outside the hobby would think we're ALL nuts. It's just a matter of personal preference.

 

Hi Hari,

 

The problem with this is that a lot of people are paying serious $$$ in this "non-serious hobby"! And not all of them are heart surgeons.

 

I enjoy collecting comic art tremendously and would highly encourage comic collectors to come check it out this part of the hobby. That said, I don't think it does anyone any good to blindly toe the party line that "pieces are one-of-a-kind, so you can justify paying any price for them, no matter how ludicrous". I've seen people get burned in other markets (including comics) using this kind of logic, and these people, once burned, generally leave the hobby in disgust. Nobody wants that, right? What people do with their own money is their business, but at least let them be educated about it. I've met more than my share of unscrupulous dealers since I started collecting artwork, so a forewarned buyer is forearmed IMO.

 

That said, I think it's absolutely fair game to compare comic art prices to comic books, other art...heck, even real estate or other assets. I mean, I know people who are taking out second mortgages or postponing the purchase of homes to buy comic art, so why isn't that a fair comparison? Heck, isn't Will selling off some of his collection to invest in real estate?

 

Gene

[heartened]

Hi Gene,

 

I think, on most points, we agree. I just don't think prices on comic art are any more ludicrous than prices on comic books these days. This entire forum is a testament to that, to be honest. Just look at the prices people are paying for 9.8 books from the last ten years!

 

Prices on art have escalated faster, but only because it's a younger hobby and the unique nature of items makes it easier for sellers to hold out until someone pays, thereby raising the price bar.

 

As far as people taking out loans or maxing out their credit cards to buy books or art, I think that's crazy. Sure, you can make money in the short term. But, you have to be real good at making deals and networking, you have to have minimal to no personal attachment to the hobby, and you have to be able to buy and sell quickly. This (comics or comic art) is not a hobby to invest in long-term.