How in the world did this go unnoticed???

[benz]

 

captured my point

[MrBedrock]

This is the most profound post I've ever read on these boards.

 

Really?

[RockMyAmadeus]

This hobby truly deserves everything that's coming to it.

 

It's true.

 

And all of us who have spent the $$$ for these books just to own them are as much to blame.

 

If there was no money in it, it wouldn't be done. There's money in it because people keep insisting on throwing money at them.

[Silver Surfer]

Go back and read the fake tits/real tits analogy.

 

I liked that one.

 

(thumbs u

 

With so many sweet books coming to market these days, I'm often tempted to bid on some of these books at auction. But, it's gotten to the point where I just have to assume the book has been manipulated to reach its maximum potential by the seller (and I subsequently lose all interest). I mean, since there's basically no downside to it (negligible time, cost, risk of damage and negative stigma), I'm sure even books with defects that can't be pressed out are regularly thrown under the press in the off-chance that the book just gains a more flattering appearance post-flattening.

 

I still don't understand how a book that has achieved its high grade through artificial manipulation can be considered the equal of a book that was cherry-picked off the stands (or even the printing press, like the Gaines EC file copies) and studiously well preserved by its owner(s) over years and decades. The sad thing is, even the aforementioned Gaines File Copies have been pressed. I mean, how absurd is it that Bill Gaines cherry-picked the best copies of his books and preserved them for decades, only to have some greedy snot press his Mad #1. That is just disgusting - how can anyone think that this is what the hobby should be about?

 

And we all know that Church books have also been pressed (apparently the rich history and lore behind those books wasn't enough for some people, they had to press the hell out of those too), as well as many copies of the top Silver Age books, mere pawns in some twisted opera of greed and ego. Instead of being revered, respected and accepted for what they were, their owners had to throw them under the iron too for the shot at the 0.2 bump.

 

This hobby truly deserves everything that's coming to it.

 

Great post Gene. I shudder to think in 20 years from now how many books will have been ruined [not necessarily by being pressed but trimming, tape, etc] just for the sake of the all mighty dollar.

[NewWorldOrder]

Go back and read the fake tits/real tits analogy.

 

I liked that one.

 

(thumbs u

 

With so many sweet books coming to market these days, I'm often tempted to bid on some of these books at auction. But, it's gotten to the point where I just have to assume the book has been manipulated to reach its maximum potential by the seller (and I subsequently lose all interest). I mean, since there's basically no downside to it (negligible time, cost, risk of damage and negative stigma), I'm sure even books with defects that can't be pressed out are regularly thrown under the press in the off-chance that the book just gains a more flattering appearance post-flattening.

 

I still don't understand how a book that has achieved its high grade through artificial manipulation can be considered the equal of a book that was cherry-picked off the stands (or even the printing press, like the Gaines EC file copies) and studiously well preserved by its owner(s) over years and decades. The sad thing is, even the aforementioned Gaines File Copies have been pressed. I mean, how absurd is it that Bill Gaines cherry-picked the best copies of his books and preserved them for decades, only to have some greedy snot press his Mad #1. That is just disgusting - how can anyone think that this is what the hobby should be about?

 

And we all know that Church books have also been pressed (apparently the rich history and lore behind those books wasn't enough for some people, they had to press the hell out of those too), as well as many copies of the top Silver Age books, mere pawns in some twisted opera of greed and ego. Instead of being revered, respected and accepted for what they were, their owners had to throw them under the iron too for the shot at the 0.2 bump.

 

This hobby truly deserves everything that's coming to it.

 

Great post Gene. I shudder to think in 20 years from now how many books will have been ruined [not necessarily by being pressed but trimming, tape, etc] just for the sake of the all mighty dollar.

 

20 years from now.

 

 

 

Some books will be worth more and some will be worth less. (thumbs u

 

Common books will sell for common money and good books will sell for good money.

 

When the market crashes will someone please PM me and let me know.

 

I have been on the edge of my seat worrying about that since I first heard that the comic book market was going to crash back in 1993.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Go back and read the fake tits/real tits analogy.

 

I liked that one.

 

(thumbs u

 

With so many sweet books coming to market these days, I'm often tempted to bid on some of these books at auction. But, it's gotten to the point where I just have to assume the book has been manipulated to reach its maximum potential by the seller (and I subsequently lose all interest). I mean, since there's basically no downside to it (negligible time, cost, risk of damage and negative stigma), I'm sure even books with defects that can't be pressed out are regularly thrown under the press in the off-chance that the book just gains a more flattering appearance post-flattening.

 

I still don't understand how a book that has achieved its high grade through artificial manipulation can be considered the equal of a book that was cherry-picked off the stands (or even the printing press, like the Gaines EC file copies) and studiously well preserved by its owner(s) over years and decades. The sad thing is, even the aforementioned Gaines File Copies have been pressed. I mean, how absurd is it that Bill Gaines cherry-picked the best copies of his books and preserved them for decades, only to have some greedy snot press his Mad #1. That is just disgusting - how can anyone think that this is what the hobby should be about?

 

And we all know that Church books have also been pressed (apparently the rich history and lore behind those books wasn't enough for some people, they had to press the hell out of those too), as well as many copies of the top Silver Age books, mere pawns in some twisted opera of greed and ego. Instead of being revered, respected and accepted for what they were, their owners had to throw them under the iron too for the shot at the 0.2 bump.

 

This hobby truly deserves everything that's coming to it.

 

Great post Gene. I shudder to think in 20 years from now how many books will have been ruined [not necessarily by being pressed but trimming, tape, etc] just for the sake of the all mighty dollar.

 

It's already not possible to buy super low grade readers really cheap anymore...

 

Now, people are paying silly amounts just for cover fragments and centerfolds, because they can put together a Frankenbook that will then sell for a lot more than the sum of the component parts.

 

All because people are willing to pay more for that Frankenbook, which makes the venture wothwhile.

 

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

When the market crashes will someone please PM me and let me know.

 

I have been on the edge of my seat worrying about that since I first heard that the comic book market was going to crash back in 1993.

 

Which sector of the market? The whole thing crashed...hard...in '95-'96. The slabbed market for 1975-up books has been crashing for a year now.

[NewWorldOrder]

Go back and read the fake tits/real tits analogy.

 

I liked that one.

 

(thumbs u

 

With so many sweet books coming to market these days, I'm often tempted to bid on some of these books at auction. But, it's gotten to the point where I just have to assume the book has been manipulated to reach its maximum potential by the seller (and I subsequently lose all interest). I mean, since there's basically no downside to it (negligible time, cost, risk of damage and negative stigma), I'm sure even books with defects that can't be pressed out are regularly thrown under the press in the off-chance that the book just gains a more flattering appearance post-flattening.

 

I still don't understand how a book that has achieved its high grade through artificial manipulation can be considered the equal of a book that was cherry-picked off the stands (or even the printing press, like the Gaines EC file copies) and studiously well preserved by its owner(s) over years and decades. The sad thing is, even the aforementioned Gaines File Copies have been pressed. I mean, how absurd is it that Bill Gaines cherry-picked the best copies of his books and preserved them for decades, only to have some greedy snot press his Mad #1. That is just disgusting - how can anyone think that this is what the hobby should be about?

 

And we all know that Church books have also been pressed (apparently the rich history and lore behind those books wasn't enough for some people, they had to press the hell out of those too), as well as many copies of the top Silver Age books, mere pawns in some twisted opera of greed and ego. Instead of being revered, respected and accepted for what they were, their owners had to throw them under the iron too for the shot at the 0.2 bump.

 

This hobby truly deserves everything that's coming to it.

 

Gene,

 

I am looking forward to our annual NYC city forum dinner chit chat.

 

I will keep your steak extra bloody for you.

 

The hobby is fine. A lot of books are getting the market correction they need.

 

 

[NewWorldOrder]

 

When the market crashes will someone please PM me and let me know.

 

I have been on the edge of my seat worrying about that since I first heard that the comic book market was going to crash back in 1993.

 

Which sector of the market? The whole thing crashed...hard...in '95-'96. The slabbed market for 1975-up books has been crashing for a year now.

 

1975-books have not crashed its called a correction.

[Silver Surfer]

Go back and read the fake tits/real tits analogy.

 

I liked that one.

 

(thumbs u

 

With so many sweet books coming to market these days, I'm often tempted to bid on some of these books at auction. But, it's gotten to the point where I just have to assume the book has been manipulated to reach its maximum potential by the seller (and I subsequently lose all interest). I mean, since there's basically no downside to it (negligible time, cost, risk of damage and negative stigma), I'm sure even books with defects that can't be pressed out are regularly thrown under the press in the off-chance that the book just gains a more flattering appearance post-flattening.

 

I still don't understand how a book that has achieved its high grade through artificial manipulation can be considered the equal of a book that was cherry-picked off the stands (or even the printing press, like the Gaines EC file copies) and studiously well preserved by its owner(s) over years and decades. The sad thing is, even the aforementioned Gaines File Copies have been pressed. I mean, how absurd is it that Bill Gaines cherry-picked the best copies of his books and preserved them for decades, only to have some greedy snot press his Mad #1. That is just disgusting - how can anyone think that this is what the hobby should be about?

 

And we all know that Church books have also been pressed (apparently the rich history and lore behind those books wasn't enough for some people, they had to press the hell out of those too), as well as many copies of the top Silver Age books, mere pawns in some twisted opera of greed and ego. Instead of being revered, respected and accepted for what they were, their owners had to throw them under the iron too for the shot at the 0.2 bump.

 

This hobby truly deserves everything that's coming to it.

 

Great post Gene. I shudder to think in 20 years from now how many books will have been ruined [not necessarily by being pressed but trimming, tape, etc] just for the sake of the all mighty dollar.

 

20 years from now.

 

 

 

Some books will be worth more and some will be worth less. (thumbs u

 

Common books will sell for common money and a good books will sell for good money.

 

When the market crashes will someone please PM me and let me know.

 

I have been on the edge of my seat worrying about that since I first heard that the comic book market was going to crash back in 1993.

 

I'm not talking about a crash, its never been a concern of mine at all. I'm just concerned at the lengths people will go just to get that extra one or two grade bumps. Yesterday it was trimming, today the issue might be pressing but tomorrow who knows, undetetable page bleaching??? 20 years from now so many books will have been put through the meat grinder that they will remind of of those broads who get a half dozen face lifts and look like aliens in their latter years.

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

When the market crashes will someone please PM me and let me know.

 

I have been on the edge of my seat worrying about that since I first heard that the comic book market was going to crash back in 1993.

 

Which sector of the market? The whole thing crashed...hard...in '95-'96. The slabbed market for 1975-up books has been crashing for a year now.

 

1975-books have not crashed its called a correction.

 

YOU can call it a correction if you wish. After all, you've profited handsomely from it (as have I, as have many people.)

 

But to the people who paid almost $1,000 for, say, a Batman #428 in 9.8, or $2500 for a Harbinger #1 in 9.8...the market HAS crashed, and crashed hard.

 

Of COURSE the market was artificially high to begin with...but that's how things crash in the first place. They're not where they're supposed to be.

[NewWorldOrder]

Go back and read the fake tits/real tits analogy.

 

I liked that one.

 

(thumbs u

 

With so many sweet books coming to market these days, I'm often tempted to bid on some of these books at auction. But, it's gotten to the point where I just have to assume the book has been manipulated to reach its maximum potential by the seller (and I subsequently lose all interest). I mean, since there's basically no downside to it (negligible time, cost, risk of damage and negative stigma), I'm sure even books with defects that can't be pressed out are regularly thrown under the press in the off-chance that the book just gains a more flattering appearance post-flattening.

 

I still don't understand how a book that has achieved its high grade through artificial manipulation can be considered the equal of a book that was cherry-picked off the stands (or even the printing press, like the Gaines EC file copies) and studiously well preserved by its owner(s) over years and decades. The sad thing is, even the aforementioned Gaines File Copies have been pressed. I mean, how absurd is it that Bill Gaines cherry-picked the best copies of his books and preserved them for decades, only to have some greedy snot press his Mad #1. That is just disgusting - how can anyone think that this is what the hobby should be about?

 

And we all know that Church books have also been pressed (apparently the rich history and lore behind those books wasn't enough for some people, they had to press the hell out of those too), as well as many copies of the top Silver Age books, mere pawns in some twisted opera of greed and ego. Instead of being revered, respected and accepted for what they were, their owners had to throw them under the iron too for the shot at the 0.2 bump.

 

This hobby truly deserves everything that's coming to it.

 

Great post Gene. I shudder to think in 20 years from now how many books will have been ruined [not necessarily by being pressed but trimming, tape, etc] just for the sake of the all mighty dollar.

 

20 years from now.

 

 

 

Some books will be worth more and some will be worth less. (thumbs u

 

Common books will sell for common money and a good books will sell for good money.

 

When the market crashes will someone please PM me and let me know.

 

I have been on the edge of my seat worrying about that since I first heard that the comic book market was going to crash back in 1993.

 

I'm not talking about a crash, its never been a concern of mine at all. I'm just concerned at the lengths people will go just to get that extra one or two grade bumps. Yesterday it was trimming, today the issue might be pressing but tomorrow who knows, undetetable page bleaching??? 20 years from now so many books will have been put through the meat grinder that they will remind of of those broads who get a half dozen face lifts and look like aliens in their latter years.

 

It's no different than 20 years ago.

 

Shady people will always exist but there a lot more good guys in the hobby as well.

 

The good still way out weighs the bad. (thumbs u

 

[NewWorldOrder]

 

When the market crashes will someone please PM me and let me know.

 

I have been on the edge of my seat worrying about that since I first heard that the comic book market was going to crash back in 1993.

 

Which sector of the market? The whole thing crashed...hard...in '95-'96. The slabbed market for 1975-up books has been crashing for a year now.

 

1975-books have not crashed its called a correction.

 

YOU can call it a correction if you wish. After all, you've profited handsomely from it (as have I, as have many people.)

 

But to the people who paid almost $1,000 for, say, a Batman #428 in 9.8, or $2500 for a Harbinger #1 in 9.8...the market HAS crashed, and crashed hard.

 

Of COURSE the market was artificially high to begin with...but that's how things crash in the first place. They're not where they're supposed to be.

 

 

If you want me to feel bad for those people, your talking to the wrong guy.

 

Common, common, common books.

 

My definition of a market crash is where the book is worth basically a couple bucks in those grades.

 

Like I said before most of those premiums were bought by collectors who thought they were rare and were probably the first in line to buy them.

 

NEVER EVEERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR BE THE FIRST to buy a new 9.8 CGC.

 

Wait on the sidelines and react to the market and make a smart buying decision accordingly after the fact.

[namisgr]

willing to press books for anyone, knowing that many will not disclose, he is being an enabler

 

This is the most important point in all pressing threads: once a book is pressed & set loose upon the world, then the battle for disclosure is lost.

 

 

If Brent compiles a digital database with high resolution images of the books that he's pressed, then the majority of these comics can be confirmed as having been pressed in perpetuity, no matter how many times they are subsequently reslabbed and their certification numbers changed.

 

Under these circumstances, he would be a discloser rather than an enabler.

 

Then I would hope that he would "disclose" the fact that he is going to do this to his potential customers. Disclosure is and always should be a choice. While I am happy to disclose books that have been pressed, I don't think you can dictate this to others.

 

It's been going on for quite awhile already from Marnin. For the past four years, he's been keeping a high resolution database of all the raw books on his site, so that they can be tracked and identified after sale and encapsulation. Existence of this database is well-advertised to potential customers.

 

It's also been going on for quite awhile already from Heritage. Indeed, their database has been used on many occasions to identify books that have been cracked, manipulated and re-graded. I don't remember you posting your concerns about the Heritage archives before, Dale.

[TupennyConan]

manipulated

negative stigma

artificial manipulation

The sad thing

how absurd

some greedy snot

That is just disgusting

had to press the hell out of those too

mere pawns in some twisted opera of greed and ego

throw them under the iron

This hobby truly deserves everything that's coming to it.

 

I don't think I'll ever have this sort of negative visceral reaction to anything related to Spider-Man. My universe is full of this spoon all day long every day. Spider-Man has always existed to save me from it.

 

He's a super-hero & thank goodness for him. The iron can't defeat him, ever.

[asteroid-comix]

manipulated

negative stigma

artificial manipulation

The sad thing

how absurd

some greedy snot

That is just disgusting

had to press the hell out of those too

mere pawns in some twisted opera of greed and ego

throw them under the iron

This hobby truly deserves everything that's coming to it.

 

I don't think I'll ever have this sort of negative visceral reaction to anything related to Spider-Man. My universe is full of this spoon all day long every day. Spider-Man has always existed to save me from it.

 

He's a super-hero & thank goodness for him. The iron can't defeat him, ever.

 

I agree 100%. For me, they are simply comic books. I'll pay what I think is fair for a book and what I know I can live with regardless of any 'market' changes that may take place. I would never spend over a few hundred bucks on a book that I couldn't see before hand or didn't think I could return if I didn't like.

[DrWatson]

Go back and read the fake tits/real tits analogy.

 

I liked that one.

 

(thumbs u

 

With so many sweet books coming to market these days, I'm often tempted to bid on some of these books at auction. But, it's gotten to the point where I just have to assume the book has been manipulated to reach its maximum potential by the seller (and I subsequently lose all interest). I mean, since there's basically no downside to it (negligible time, cost, risk of damage and negative stigma), I'm sure even books with defects that can't be pressed out are regularly thrown under the press in the off-chance that the book just gains a more flattering appearance post-flattening.

 

I still don't understand how a book that has achieved its high grade through artificial manipulation can be considered the equal of a book that was cherry-picked off the stands (or even the printing press, like the Gaines EC file copies) and studiously well preserved by its owner(s) over years and decades. The sad thing is, even the aforementioned Gaines File Copies have been pressed. I mean, how absurd is it that Bill Gaines cherry-picked the best copies of his books and preserved them for decades, only to have some greedy snot press his Mad #1. That is just disgusting - how can anyone think that this is what the hobby should be about?

 

And we all know that Church books have also been pressed (apparently the rich history and lore behind those books wasn't enough for some people, they had to press the hell out of those too), as well as many copies of the top Silver Age books, mere pawns in some twisted opera of greed and ego. Instead of being revered, respected and accepted for what they were, their owners had to throw them under the iron too for the shot at the 0.2 bump.

 

This hobby truly deserves everything that's coming to it.

I'm not sure if you deserve a Daytime Emmy or a tampon.

[skypinkblu]

 

It's already not possible to buy super low grade readers really cheap anymore...

 

Now, people are paying silly amounts just for cover fragments and centerfolds, because they can put together a Frankenbook that will then sell for a lot more than the sum of the component parts.

 

All because people are willing to pay more for that Frankenbook, which makes the venture wothwhile.

 

Maybe some of us buy pieces because it's fun to own the complete book...kind of like a matching game :shrug:...and we don't feel like paying out thousands for a hi-grade one.

Low grade readers are not so cheap because some people just like to collect old comics and they are more affordable. Trust me, some of the low grade books I own could be pressed, spun and dried and they'd still be low grade.

[TupennyConan]

Maybe I'll abandon Robert E Howard because he was racist or Shakespeare because he was a petty, litigious philanderer & then heap public scorn upon the character of all persons who continue to read them.

 

Where the devil is my pillory?

 

Also, there is no room in this world for humanity's capacity for greed & ego. None.

[Foolkiller]

Go back and read the fake tits/real tits analogy.

 

I liked that one.

 

(thumbs u

 

With so many sweet books coming to market these days, I'm often tempted to bid on some of these books at auction. But, it's gotten to the point where I just have to assume the book has been manipulated to reach its maximum potential by the seller (and I subsequently lose all interest). I mean, since there's basically no downside to it (negligible time, cost, risk of damage and negative stigma), I'm sure even books with defects that can't be pressed out are regularly thrown under the press in the off-chance that the book just gains a more flattering appearance post-flattening.

 

I still don't understand how a book that has achieved its high grade through artificial manipulation can be considered the equal of a book that was cherry-picked off the stands (or even the printing press, like the Gaines EC file copies) and studiously well preserved by its owner(s) over years and decades. The sad thing is, even the aforementioned Gaines File Copies have been pressed. I mean, how absurd is it that Bill Gaines cherry-picked the best copies of his books and preserved them for decades, only to have some greedy snot press his Mad #1. That is just disgusting - how can anyone think that this is what the hobby should be about?

 

And we all know that Church books have also been pressed (apparently the rich history and lore behind those books wasn't enough for some people, they had to press the hell out of those too), as well as many copies of the top Silver Age books, mere pawns in some twisted opera of greed and ego. Instead of being revered, respected and accepted for what they were, their owners had to throw them under the iron too for the shot at the 0.2 bump.

 

This hobby truly deserves everything that's coming to it.

 

This is the most profound post I've ever read on these boards.

 

You have a keen understanding of the collector's inherit naivete, the wisdom to understand that greed is the most powerful of motivators and that it provides the impetus for those "in the know" to prey on the weak and uninformed, and the knowledge to know that it inevitably will lead to ruin.

 

Thanks for taking the time to make your post.

 

My friend Gene and I disagree about the degree to which we ought to be concerned about pressing, but I think many of the underlying points he's making are certainly valid. I think it's wrong for some of you to so lightly dismiss them or not even be concerned with them. This is a very big buyer (he used to be) who could easily inject $100k into the hobby without blinking an eye, is a true fan of the medium, but won't because of his feelings on pressing. That is and should be a concern.

 

It is most certainly not (sorry Gene) the most profound post ever written.