How in the world did this go unnoticed???

[Mr. Zipper]

Treat Brent the same way he was being treated before this thread. He was pressing books two weeks ago and it didn't seem to be an issue then.

 

If you read the thread on the NOD Forum, you'd see that what I advocated. I consider "treat him the same way he was being treated before this thread" as accepting it.

 

http://www.networkofdisclosure.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=956

 

Why let a microcosm such as this influence your decision? I would think if you guys aren't careful, you are going to lose a valuable member of your organization that will continue to be a better friend than enemy.

 

Read the thread.

 

It would be a big mistake. Right up there with not accepting Richard Evans' application for membership.

 

This is an entirely different matter. Richard wanted membership on his own terms. This would have been an issue, but I thought I came up with a good solution.

 

So I extended my hand to work with Richard and spoke with him by phone and offered him a position as special adviser to NOD. He accepted in principle... I asked him to be patient, I'd get back to him shortly after clearing it with the rest of the Board... and less than an hour later Richard was back on these Board bashing the group again because we didn't accept his application fast enough.

 

So, if NOD and Richard did not have a working relationship, it was not through a lack of effort on the part of NOD.

[TupennyConan]

It would be a big mistake. Right up there with not accepting Richard Evans' application for membership.

 

Didn't know that Mr B had been turned down for NOD. On what grounds?

It was a drawn out ordeal over Richard the Collector versus Richard the Bedrock City Owner.

 

Classic moment in comic book collecting history.

[gaz973]

It was a drawn out ordeal over Richard the Collector versus Richard the Bedrock City Owner.

 

NOD discriminates against split personalities?

[snitzer]

calls for resignations!

[Straw-Man]

I believe the Canadian meant UK.

Has the United Kingdom ever been to the NCAA tournament?

 

they made one final and it was a wales of a game.

[MrBedrock]

Treat Brent the same way he was being treated before this thread. He was pressing books two weeks ago and it didn't seem to be an issue then.

 

Why let a microcosm such as this influence your decision? I would think if you guys aren't careful, you are going to lose a valuable member of your organization that will continue to be a better friend than enemy.

 

It would be a big mistake. Right up there with not accepting Richard Evans' application for membership.

I agree with what you said, right up until this part. Richard didn't/doesn't want to join as evidenced by what he said at the time and the fact that he won't join now that the individual/dealer logo issue is moot.

Mike,

How do you know what I do or do not want to do?

I did want to join then. But I knew full well that I wouldn't be allowed to because of the way the organization was set up.

I don't want to join NOD now because the organization is useless in my opinion.

But I'd happily join NOD if it were something worth joining.

Make it so

[DrWatson]

Treat Brent the same way he was being treated before this thread. He was pressing books two weeks ago and it didn't seem to be an issue then.

 

If you read the thread on the NOD Forum, you'd see that what I advocated. I consider "treat him the same way he was being treated before this thread" as accepting it.

 

http://www.networkofdisclosure.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=956

 

Why let a microcosm such as this influence your decision? I would think if you guys aren't careful, you are going to lose a valuable member of your organization that will continue to be a better friend than enemy.

 

Read the thread.

 

It would be a big mistake. Right up there with not accepting Richard Evans' application for membership.

 

This is an entirely different matter. Richard wanted membership on his own terms. This would have been an issue, but I thought I came up with a good solution.

 

So I extended my hand to work with Richard and spoke with him by phone and offered him a position as special adviser to NOD. He accepted in principle... I asked him to be patient, I'd get back to him shortly after clearing it with the rest of the Board... and less than an hour later Richard was back on these Board bashing the group again because we didn't accept his application fast enough.

 

So, if NOD and Richard did not have a working relationship, it was not through a lack of effort on the part of NOD.

 

I don't go to the NOD chat board, Steve.

 

The point is you guys missed an important opportunity. I wouldn't let this moment turn into another "remember when" on the checklist of mistakes.

[DiceX]

The boards have been quiet for weeks now. I was wondering when the next titfest would break out.

 

I'm just stunned that it's over pressing.

 

 

[DrWatson]

The boards have been quiet for weeks now. I was wondering when the next titfest would break out.

 

I'm just stunned that it's over pressing.

I figured the appropriate adjective would have been "gobsmacked."

[pickycollector]

It seems apocalyptic indeed..

 

I must confess that even myself has slightly changed my opinion about pressing recently. I sent eight books to Joey to be pressed in the last months. The purpose was very simple, I wanted to be more informed about pressing effects, to visualize the results with my own eyes on a book I could see before and after pressing and find out if I could see the difference and detect pressing. All eight books had different specific defects.

 

On four on those books, I could not see a difference and no way I could tell the book was pressed if I didn't see it before. On the other four however, the spine has been flattened more than usual and almost did look like pancakes. For those I was able to detect the pressing work.

 

Even though Joey has convinced me that for some low grade copies or books with specific problems, pressing, if well done, can enhance the look of a book and make it more "desirable", I still do not want to press or own high grade books from and for my personal collection. It is a personal choice.

 

An analogy I like is women breast: I prefer real boobs to fake boobs, nothing is better than a natural breast. I could understand surgery for a A-breast or zero breast but if my spouse has nice B or C breast, why would I ask her to go for surgery in order to have a fake D-breast ? Some would say "who cares if they are fake as long as they're big". Well, I do and other people do.

 

For many, the only thing that matters is the number inside the CGC label on the upper left corner, they buy the label, not the book. I think the total opposite. For me, an original 9.4 is MUCH more desirable than a pressed 9.8, the same way a woman with natural C-breast is more desirable than one with a fake "restored" D-breast.

 

That is where the paradox is and what is tearing me apart. I don't want to own pressed books but more and more pressed books will invade the market and it will become harder and harder to buy books in their original condition. But if I want to get the "maximum potential" price for the books I want to sell, maybe I should press them. Why should I leave the big money into other hands ? Seems like a vicious circle to me.

 

Disclosure does make it more acceptable to my eyes and I personally want to disclose any work done on a comic book that I know or that I suspect when I sell. Personally, in this Forum, I never do (and never will) buy comics from sellers whom do not disclose the pressing fact but have no problems buying books from sellers/pressers whom disclose (like Joey) because I know what I'm buying (or not).

 

But it's true that even if one seller discloses pressing, the book can be re-sold again and again and not be disclosed at one time in its lifetime. Worse: most important auction web sites will not disclose if a book has been pressed even if they are aware of it or did the work themselves and even if the seller using their 3rd party service tells them that the book has been pressed.

 

That is why now when I want to buy from auctions sites, I bid only on books graded before 2009 as the probability of books graded in 2009-2010 being pressed is now too high for me, especially CGC books graded 9.6 or better as the probabilty of them being pressed is now extremely high.

 

Learning that the NOD is offering now a pressing service is a big shock to me. You can change slightly your stance but you cannot make such a drastic change without losing some credibility. You cannot eat and own the cake in the same time indeed. This is very sad news .

 

 

[MCMiles]

Treat Brent the same way he was being treated before this thread. He was pressing books two weeks ago and it didn't seem to be an issue then.

 

If you read the thread on the NOD Forum, you'd see that what I advocated. I consider "treat him the same way he was being treated before this thread" as accepting it.

 

http://www.networkofdisclosure.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=956

 

 

I clicked the link. You're right Steve, you are being very level headed about it. However, there have been some pretty aggressive statements posted by other members over there.

[Ze-man]

 

Brents situation is completely different..he is pressing books for people who he knows will sell them undisclosed( possibly anyways) Yet he is the Chariman for NOD which preaches full disclosure.

 

To me this is a conflict of interest, or at the least undermines NOD's bottom line greatly.

 

But Kenny in all fairness are you expecting Brent to police and what they do with their books after he presses their books, that's impossible? I guess all of us should be held to these same high standards? Your suggestion that you would black list a client if they had a book RESTORED and then tried to sell it as unrestored is great but how should this apply to pressing a book? Kind of apples an oranges don't you think?

 

Of course not, it has nothing to do with expecting Brent to police every book he presses. It has everything to do with Brent offering a service that goes against the main mantra of the group that he is leader for.

 

I mean how else can one look at this?

 

NOD has always been about Full disclosure and Brent is in a leadership position for NOD. So I do not think it out of line to say it is a conflict of interest that he opened a pressing service that will directly affect how many potentially undisclosed pressed books are on the market.

 

Not that he has broken any rules, not that he cannot press as many books as he wants to for whoever he wants to, not that NOD is only about pressing, but for petes sake don't try and also be the leader for a Full Disclosure Group while pressing books that will very likely not be disclosed when they hit the market and expect people to not question the validity of the orgs integrity he represents. Even if it is misplaced skepticism, it is there.

 

I guess what I am trying to say is I found it odd that he simply did not step down from his leadership position(or taken on a different role) before opening the doors to his pressing service. I like Brent and certainly didn't mean for this to come off as a bashing of him, but given his position and the subject matter I would think he should have seen this doodystorm coming from a mile away. And in hindsight I should have just voiced my concerns to him privately.

 

 

[t3quila]

The boards have been quiet for weeks now. I was wondering when the next titfest would break out.

 

I'm just stunned that it's over pressing.

 

 

I object to the term titfest, read the thread and there were no decent pics posted

[Green]

It seems apocalyptic indeed..

 

I must confess that even myself has slightly changed my opinion about pressing recently. I sent eight books to Joey to be pressed in the last months. The purpose was very simple, I wanted to be more informed about pressing effects, to visualize the results with my own eyes on a book I could see before and after pressing and find out if I could see the difference and detect pressing. All eight books had different specific defects.

 

On four on those books, I could not see a difference and no way I could tell the book was pressed if I didn't see it before. On the other four however, the spine has been flattened more than usual and almost did look like pancakes. For those I was able to detect the pressing work.

 

Even though Joey has convinced me that for some low grade copies or books with specific problems, pressing, if well done, can enhance the look of a book and make it more "desirable", I still do not want to press or own high grade books from and for my personal collection. It is a personal choice.

 

An analogy I like is women breast: I prefer real boobs to fake boobs, nothing is better than a natural breast. I could understand surgery for a A-breast or zero breast but if my spouse has nice B or C breast, why would I ask her to go for surgery in order to have a fake D-breast ? Some would say "who cares if they are fake as long as they're big". Well, I do and other people do.

 

For many, the only thing that matters is the number inside the CGC label on the upper left corner, they buy the label, not the book. I think the total opposite. For me, an original 9.4 is MUCH more desirable than a pressed 9.8, the same way a woman with natural C-breast is more desirable than one with a fake "restored" D-breast.

 

That is where the paradox is and what is tearing me apart. I don't want to own pressed books but more and more pressed books will invade the market and it will become harder and harder to buy books in their original condition. But if I want to get the "maximum potential" price for the books I want to sell, maybe I should press them. Why should I leave the big money into other hands ? Seems like a vicious circle to me.

 

Disclosure does make it more acceptable to my eyes and I personally want to disclose any work done on a comic book that I know or that I suspect when I sell. Personally, in this Forum, I never do (and never will) buy comics from sellers whom do not disclose the pressing fact but have no problems buying books from sellers/pressers whom disclose (like Joey) because I know what I'm buying (or not).

 

But it's true that even if one seller discloses pressing, the book can be re-sold again and again and not be disclosed at one time in its lifetime. Worse: most important auction web sites will not disclose if a book has been pressed even if they are aware of it or did the work themselves and even if the seller using their 3rd party service tells them that the book has been pressed.

 

That is why now when I want to buy from auctions sites, I bid only on books graded before 2009 as the probability of books graded in 2009-2010 being pressed is now too high for me, especially CGC books graded 9.6 or better as the probabilty of them being pressed is now extremely high.

 

Learning that the NOD is offering now a pressing service is a big shock to me. You can change slightly your stance but you cannot make such a drastic change without losing some credibility. You cannot eat and own the cake in the same time indeed. This is very sad news .

 

You might wanna dial that back to 2005 for any effectiveness.

[Mr. Zipper]

I don't go to the NOD chat board, Steve.

 

The point is you guys missed an important opportunity. I wouldn't let this moment turn into another "remember when" on the checklist of mistakes.

 

That's fine. But if you did, you'd see that no members are calling from Brent's head over the pressing issue. Rational, health discussion is taking place. The only place where stuff like getting expulsion is being discussed is here by people who are not even members.

 

Brent is a great guy, a super-solid dealer and, to a man, every single member would hate to see him leave the organization.

 

Would we have rather avoided this controversy? Sure. But no one is suggesting that Brent should be tossed under the bus over it.

[DrWatson]

It seems apocalyptic indeed..

 

I must confess

 

You might wanna dial that back to 2005 for any effectiveness.

Do you mean letters or words?

[NewWorldOrder]

I don't go to the NOD chat board, Steve.

 

The point is you guys missed an important opportunity. I wouldn't let this moment turn into another "remember when" on the checklist of mistakes.

 

That's fine. But if you did, you'd see that no members are calling from Brent's head over the pressing issue. Rational, health discussion is taking place. The only place where stuff like getting expulsion is being discussed is here by people who are not even members.

 

Brent is a great guy, a super-solid dealer and, to a man, every single member would hate to see him leave the organization.

 

Would we have rather avoided this controversy? Sure. But no one is suggesting that Brent should be tossed under the bus over it.

 

Thats not what I read.

 

I see a member vocally calling for Brent's resignation.

[MCMiles]

I don't go to the NOD chat board, Steve.

 

The point is you guys missed an important opportunity. I wouldn't let this moment turn into another "remember when" on the checklist of mistakes.

 

That's fine. But if you did, you'd see that no members are calling from Brent's head over the pressing issue. Rational, health discussion is taking place. The only place where stuff like getting expulsion is being discussed is here by people who are not even members.

 

Brent is a great guy, a super-solid dealer and, to a man, every single member would hate to see him leave the organization.

 

Would we have rather avoided this controversy? Sure. But no one is suggesting that Brent should be tossed under the bus over it.

 

Thats not what I read.

 

I see a member vocally calling for Brent's resignation.

 

Yeah, a couple of people seem to feel pretty strongly about him being removed form his position, which is no different then being booted from the org. since he really isn't breaking any rules.

[Mr. Zipper]

Treat Brent the same way he was being treated before this thread. He was pressing books two weeks ago and it didn't seem to be an issue then.

 

If you read the thread on the NOD Forum, you'd see that what I advocated. I consider "treat him the same way he was being treated before this thread" as accepting it.

 

http://www.networkofdisclosure.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=956

 

 

I clicked the link. You're right Steve, you are being very level headed about it. However, there have been some pretty aggressive statements posted by other members over there.

 

Yup... two people get kinda aggressive. But the boards are there for members to express their opinions. If Gary is appalled, that's his right. But it also doesn't mean Brent is getting run out of the group.

 

[thirdgreenham]

Arent all old collection pressed to some degree. Being stacked in boxes and bags for 50 years and then being discovered? Isnt that amatuer pressing? Now what about bagging and boarding and stuff arent you artificially preseving and improving the books? So arent we restoing everything in a sense. Its time to collect stamps !!

 

I can hook you up.