How in the world did this go unnoticed???

[namisgr]

Should I include your posts in those we shouldn't regard with sincerity?

By all means, counselor.

 

Dude is, from my reading of his posts over the past few years, brilliant.

 

I tend to like to believe that he is, to some measured degree, winking at us a tad, challenging us in good faith a whole bunch, and might have us all snowed just enough to satisfy his intellectual need to emote on a message board about a topic of passion for him.

 

Never realized there were so many levels of meaning to his participation here.

 

I just figured he was a guy that had his books pressed, spouted cornpone witticisms, and whose social life revolves around PMs and forum dinners.

 

Perhaps it's a to-may-to / to-mah-to thing.

 

 

Now, now, I'd hardly refer to describing someone who posted an impassioned and articulate position as being deserving of tampons a "cornpone witticism".

[joeypost]

So.....is Brent still in NOD?

[VK]

Pressing is depressing.

 

Might be better if I sold all my 'hardcopies', and spent the rest of my life reading comics here:

 

http://www.htmlcomics.com/

[MCMiles]

Didn't Gene take his big bucks out a long time ago? I don't recall feeling an impact.

 

I think the market has had a reaction due to pressing and the increased numbers of high grade books available. I don't think one or several high rollers leaving has any impact other then their abandoned books becoming available to the market. Which I don't view as a bad thing. I also don't see declining values as the apocolypse. It often seems that the so called purists concern is over the health of the hobby based on high grade values. That just makes no sense to me. The hobby will be fine as long as people like comic books and buy them for that reason. Those of us that like comics will stay here and buy, sell, trade or collect them based on our own personal preferences concerning grade, resto, pressing or value.

 

I liked tupenny's post. Why don't some of these guys find something worthwhile to complain about. If it sucks so bad, then adapt or leave. It's unlikely you will be missed. The rest of us will enjoy it - up, down, boom, or crash. At the same time, it's everyone's right to express how they feel, and I get a few good laughs out of the petty little comments too.

 

How would you feel an impact? You wouldn't. That's like saying if one collector goes out do you feel one? It's a cumulative effect. Are you feeling an impact now that sullypython is selling? Or bronzebruce? If enough collectors leave, you see softening of prices because there are fewer and fewer big buyers to absorb some of the books.

 

The concern, if you like playing on the super high end, is one of why do it if it's not unique.

 

Where I agree with you is, if you enjoy it, stay in it, and do so in a way in which you truly enjoy it.

 

Personally, I'm not concerned about the cumulative effect. I also don't think the cumulative effect of people leaving is that grand. I don't think there is a mass exodus from the hobby due to pressing, or even because of lower values that may be a result of pressing. Sure there are some, and they are probably only missed by the dealer that repeatedly sold them books. I also have the feeling that the number of collectors that have come in to buy these ultra high grade books may be equal to or at least countering in some way those that may be leaving. There are a few here on the boards that have easily filled the shoes of Gene or Bruce.

 

If anything, the sheer number of auctions for several years now offering repeated high grade SA, along with an incredible amount of GA should be having an impact. Those auction offerings are probably a result of some collectors leaving or cashing in, but the total dollar amount being traded monthly is staggering. Even if that decrease by 90%, it really isn't a concern to me.

 

I also think that comic collectors that love the hobby will always be there, and the hobby will survive. Sure the value of ultra-high grade may continue to decline, but other areas may strengthen. VF to VF/NM books have already begun to see a stronger demand IMO. Low grade books, while over valued in guide continue to sell consistently if priced right. Low grade keys often go over guide.

 

My point is many of us love the comic books, and they will always have some sort of value. There will always be a market. It could be, probably will be a much softer market, but that doesn't bother me.

 

I think there's a segment of high grade collectors who will really miss the idea of being able to acquire an unmanipulated, unpressed books that survived in essentially a natural way. I think that's where a lot of the disappointment lies, the loss of the historical sense of the hobby (in high grade). I've certainly found another way to enjoy it personally.

 

I don't think there's a mass exodus because of pressing per se, but more because collecting high grade isn't as unique as it once was because supply is much greater for a variety of reasons some of which is due to pressing. I'll say that guys like adamstrange have very unique collections and those guys are in it purely for the joy of comics. I'm sure there are others out there with great collections that aren't getting sold any time soon. While some may have filled the shoes of Gene or Bruce, each collector is unique, and if someone leaves, I still think it's a shame and something we ought not dismiss out of hand.

 

I agree 100%. It can be difficult to sympathize simply because I don't assign the same negativity to pressing that some do. If highest graded equals unique, then, really, only 10 years in to graded comics, it was a loosing battle to start with in many areas.

 

I'll try to stop nesting the quotes now.

[Boozad]

[TupennyConan]

Should I include your posts in those we shouldn't regard with sincerity?

By all means, counselor.

 

Dude is, from my reading of his posts over the past few years, brilliant.

 

I tend to like to believe that he is, to some measured degree, winking at us a tad, challenging us in good faith a whole bunch, and might have us all snowed just enough to satisfy his intellectual need to emote on a message board about a topic of passion for him.

 

Never realized there were so many levels of meaning to his participation here.

 

I just figured he was a guy that had his books pressed, spouted cornpone witticisms, and whose social life revolves around PMs and forum dinners.

 

Perhaps it's a to-may-to / to-mah-to thing.

 

 

I wasn't talking about Watson. He is a dummy.

[comicwiz]

Go back and read the fake tits/real tits analogy.

 

I liked that one.

 

(thumbs u

 

With so many sweet books coming to market these days, I'm often tempted to bid on some of these books at auction. But, it's gotten to the point where I just have to assume the book has been manipulated to reach its maximum potential by the seller (and I subsequently lose all interest). I mean, since there's basically no downside to it (negligible time, cost, risk of damage and negative stigma), I'm sure even books with defects that can't be pressed out are regularly thrown under the press in the off-chance that the book just gains a more flattering appearance post-flattening.

 

I still don't understand how a book that has achieved its high grade through artificial manipulation can be considered the equal of a book that was cherry-picked off the stands (or even the printing press, like the Gaines EC file copies) and studiously well preserved by its owner(s) over years and decades. The sad thing is, even the aforementioned Gaines File Copies have been pressed. I mean, how absurd is it that Bill Gaines cherry-picked the best copies of his books and preserved them for decades, only to have some greedy snot press his Mad #1. That is just disgusting - how can anyone think that this is what the hobby should be about?

 

And we all know that Church books have also been pressed (apparently the rich history and lore behind those books wasn't enough for some people, they had to press the hell out of those too), as well as many copies of the top Silver Age books, mere pawns in some twisted opera of greed and ego. Instead of being revered, respected and accepted for what they were, their owners had to throw them under the iron too for the shot at the 0.2 bump.

 

This hobby truly deserves everything that's coming to it.

 

I have my own set of opinions on the greed driven side of the hobby. It's everywhere money is to be made. I guess we resign in our own way by the way we pick and choose what we are willing to tolerate.

 

Having spent a little time doing independent research on dry-mount pressing, I can't possibly even begin to imagine why anyone would drag the example of the Church books in the same discussion. The only explanation I have is that there is so much stigma against pressing that its constrained critical thinking and enlightenment to the degree where we would choose to advance unrepudiated, bold and baseless opinion rather than awkward empirical evidence.

 

My hunch is that there will be a day - perhaps not in the too distant future - where books that have gone through dry-mount pressing will be detectable. It won't even be a matter of how as much as why. The boiling point will inevitably be a collectors fill of panic and frustration in the same way restoration halted our ability for enjoyment.

 

Whether the forensic process will involve machine assisted methods, or lean more heavily on seasoned opinion and a trained eye, IMHO there is far too much residue from the transfer of heat, material application (silica/mylar release properties) and tell tale signs that lead me to think it is not as cut and dry on the stealth side as some might lead us to believe.

 

When this happens, then Gene's sentiment of the hobby's future might well become a reality.

[TupennyConan]

The Watson haters, mouths wet with appetite for Doc's blood, got it wrong. My brilliant dude was Gene. Sorry to use his first name. I don't know him & can't spell his alterego.

[DrWatson]

Should I include your posts in those we shouldn't regard with sincerity?

By all means, counselor.

 

Dude is, from my reading of his posts over the past few years, brilliant.

 

I tend to like to believe that he is, to some measured degree, winking at us a tad, challenging us in good faith a whole bunch, and might have us all snowed just enough to satisfy his intellectual need to emote on a message board about a topic of passion for him.

 

He is too bright to believe fully that I should, for example & by flamboyant corollary to the sick little ego & greed driven game of pressing comics, repudiate forever the holy imperium of the Catholic Church because of the sadistic artistry of the Inquisition's Moreauvian-like vivisectorium under Torquemada & Co.

[MCMiles]

Fine, I'll buy every pressed POS 9.X the obliterated market has to offer. If someone wants to press all of the Pedigree copies out there, I'll take those worthless rags also.

[DrWatson]

Should I include your posts in those we shouldn't regard with sincerity?

By all means, counselor.

 

Dude is, from my reading of his posts over the past few years, brilliant.

 

I tend to like to believe that he is, to some measured degree, winking at us a tad, challenging us in good faith a whole bunch, and might have us all snowed just enough to satisfy his intellectual need to emote on a message board about a topic of passion for him.

 

Never realized there were so many levels of meaning to his participation here.

 

I just figured he was a guy that had his books pressed, spouted cornpone witticisms, and whose social life revolves around PMs and forum dinners.

 

Perhaps it's a to-may-to / to-mah-to thing.

 

 

Now, now, I'd hardly refer to describing someone who posted an impassioned and articulate position as being deserving of tampons a "cornpone witticism".

Oh Bob, if only we could all be in possession of your wit and intellect, then what a dry, dry board this would be. Of course, then we would all own books that were stricken down by the Haspel hammer.

[Guest Grails]

Go back and read the fake tits/real tits analogy.

 

I liked that one.

 

(thumbs u

 

With so many sweet books coming to market these days, I'm often tempted to bid on some of these books at auction. But, it's gotten to the point where I just have to assume the book has been manipulated to reach its maximum potential by the seller (and I subsequently lose all interest). I mean, since there's basically no downside to it (negligible time, cost, risk of damage and negative stigma), I'm sure even books with defects that can't be pressed out are regularly thrown under the press in the off-chance that the book just gains a more flattering appearance post-flattening.

 

I still don't understand how a book that has achieved its high grade through artificial manipulation can be considered the equal of a book that was cherry-picked off the stands (or even the printing press, like the Gaines EC file copies) and studiously well preserved by its owner(s) over years and decades. The sad thing is, even the aforementioned Gaines File Copies have been pressed. I mean, how absurd is it that Bill Gaines cherry-picked the best copies of his books and preserved them for decades, only to have some greedy snot press his Mad #1. That is just disgusting - how can anyone think that this is what the hobby should be about?

 

And we all know that Church books have also been pressed (apparently the rich history and lore behind those books wasn't enough for some people, they had to press the hell out of those too), as well as many copies of the top Silver Age books, mere pawns in some twisted opera of greed and ego. Instead of being revered, respected and accepted for what they were, their owners had to throw them under the iron too for the shot at the 0.2 bump.

 

This hobby truly deserves everything that's coming to it.

I'm not sure if you deserve a Daytime Emmy or a tampon.

 

I'm sorry, I actually chuckled at that. I guess its because that post has been made quite a few times by different members. Actually, I believe delekkerste already wrote this post before as well. I do agree with some of it but its nothing we haven't heard before. Unfortunately, thats the cycle of pressing threads.

57 Channels (And Nothin' on)

 

[MCMiles]

Go back and read the fake tits/real tits analogy.

 

I liked that one.

 

(thumbs u

 

With so many sweet books coming to market these days, I'm often tempted to bid on some of these books at auction. But, it's gotten to the point where I just have to assume the book has been manipulated to reach its maximum potential by the seller (and I subsequently lose all interest). I mean, since there's basically no downside to it (negligible time, cost, risk of damage and negative stigma), I'm sure even books with defects that can't be pressed out are regularly thrown under the press in the off-chance that the book just gains a more flattering appearance post-flattening.

 

I still don't understand how a book that has achieved its high grade through artificial manipulation can be considered the equal of a book that was cherry-picked off the stands (or even the printing press, like the Gaines EC file copies) and studiously well preserved by its owner(s) over years and decades. The sad thing is, even the aforementioned Gaines File Copies have been pressed. I mean, how absurd is it that Bill Gaines cherry-picked the best copies of his books and preserved them for decades, only to have some greedy snot press his Mad #1. That is just disgusting - how can anyone think that this is what the hobby should be about?

 

And we all know that Church books have also been pressed (apparently the rich history and lore behind those books wasn't enough for some people, they had to press the hell out of those too), as well as many copies of the top Silver Age books, mere pawns in some twisted opera of greed and ego. Instead of being revered, respected and accepted for what they were, their owners had to throw them under the iron too for the shot at the 0.2 bump.

 

This hobby truly deserves everything that's coming to it.

I'm not sure if you deserve a Daytime Emmy or a tampon.

 

I'm sorry, I actually chuckled at that. I guess its because that post has been made quite a few times by different members. Actually, I believe delekkerste already wrote this post before as well. I do agree with some of it but its nothing we haven't heard before. Unfortunately, thats the cycle of pressing threads.

57 Channels (And Nothin' on)

 

You are correct. (thumbs u

[Mr. Zipper]

Should I include your posts in those we shouldn't regard with sincerity?

By all means, counselor.

 

Dude is, from my reading of his posts over the past few years, brilliant.

 

I tend to like to believe that he is, to some measured degree, winking at us a tad, challenging us in good faith a whole bunch, and might have us all snowed just enough to satisfy his intellectual need to emote on a message board about a topic of passion for him.

 

Never realized there were so many levels of meaning to his participation here.

 

I just figured he was a guy that had his books pressed, spouted cornpone witticisms, and whose social life revolves around PMs and forum dinners.

 

Perhaps it's a to-may-to / to-mah-to thing.

 

 

I wasn't talking about Watson. He is a dummy.

 

No he's not.

 

God, did I just write that?

[DrWatson]

Should I include your posts in those we shouldn't regard with sincerity?

By all means, counselor.

 

Dude is, from my reading of his posts over the past few years, brilliant.

 

I tend to like to believe that he is, to some measured degree, winking at us a tad, challenging us in good faith a whole bunch, and might have us all snowed just enough to satisfy his intellectual need to emote on a message board about a topic of passion for him.

 

Never realized there were so many levels of meaning to his participation here.

 

I just figured he was a guy that had his books pressed, spouted cornpone witticisms, and whose social life revolves around PMs and forum dinners.

 

Perhaps it's a to-may-to / to-mah-to thing.

 

No, my social life doesn't revolve around PMs and forum dinners. In fact, I avoid forum dinners like the plague.

 

I do PM a lot as I find it more enjoyable talking to people who really matter in my life as opposed to faceless screen names. Thanks to the PM system, I can now travel to over twenty states & three countries and have somewhere I can lay my head due to the friendships I have made here. If it weren't for the PMs, I wouldn't have gotten to spend a few days with Nik in Boston before he passed away or been able to meet up with chromium. Incidentally, Chrome is flying over from Belgium this year and we are going on a two week road trip. Washington DC and Graceland should be fun as I have never been there. Imagine that, I have been to Mexico, Central America, Canada, England and Europe but I have never visited the nation's capital or the birthplace of Elvis.

 

I actually spend the majority of my free time (I work six days a week as I own my own business) volunteering for a organization that unfortunately has lost all of its relevance in the field to which it administers. I'm sure that's something to which you can relate.

 

I've had about forty books pressed, and I still own all of them except for about five. That's out of a collection of about 750 books. Actually, very few of my books are pressed. I would say a lot more of Brent's books or those of his customers are pressed than mine. As you well know, when Marnin had the Mass copies pressed, he pressed more books then than I will ever have pressed.

 

Anyway, I guess we had better get back to this discussion about pressing comic books and the death of the hobby as it has a nice beat and we can dance to it.

[TupennyConan]

KOR, please post that pic now. After Watson's post, it has come due.

 

I happen to consider Jim a great friend & I have these Boards to thank for it.

[MrBedrock]

My friend Gene and I disagree about the degree to which we ought to be concerned about pressing, but I think many of the underlying points he's making are certainly valid. I think it's wrong for some of you to so lightly dismiss them or not even be concerned with them. This is a very big buyer (he used to be) who could easily inject $100k into the hobby without blinking an eye, is a true fan of the medium, but won't because of his feelings on pressing. That is and should be a concern.

It is most certainly not (sorry Gene) the most profound post ever written.

 

The only concern would be that a collector has changed focus and is now concentrating on art instead of comics, whatever his reasons may be. But that is his choice. And he is free to comment on only the parts of the hobby that strike him as greedy or negative if he chooses. That concerns me.

But if we are saying that it is a concern that a guy isn't injecting hundreds of thousands of dollars into our hobby, and who is vocally predicting the downfall of comicbook collecting, wouldn't we be engaging in the same greed that he is deploring?

[Mr. Zipper]

Thanks for the clarification.

 

Funny, aren't we all a bit more human than the screen name may suggest?

 

Graceland and Memphis are a lot of fun... I spent a 3 day weekend there in 2000.

[chromium]

Incidentally, Chrome is flying over from Belgium this year and we are going on a two week road trip. Washington DC and Graceland should be fun as I have never been there. Imagine that, I have been to Mexico, Central America, Canada, England and Europe but I have never visited the nation's capital or the birthplace of Elvis.

 

Well that's me out of the closet

[MrBedrock]

My point is many of us love the comic books, and they will always have some sort of value. There will always be a market. It could be, probably will be a much softer market, but that doesn't bother me.

These three sentences are more profound than anything else posted in this thread.