How in the world did this go unnoticed???

[MCMiles]

While I'd be willing to pay a bit of a premium for a comic that I was sure was unpressed, 9.4 prices for a 9.2 book would be a bit much.

 

How could you be certain that it had never been pressed. It may have gained a pressable defect since being pressed.

 

There's no certainty that a comic would obtain the higher grade if it was pressed.

 

It still strikes me as unfair to pay extra for the seller to not do something that is seen by the buyer as detrimental to the book.

 

 

Mike, While I certainly see your point of view as a seller not leaving money on the table, I'm sure you can see mine too.

 

Yes I do see your point, although I hear an awful lot about the holiness of these unmolested books.

 

With the "large segment" that prefers un-manipulated books (and detests pressed books), and the decreasing number of un-manipulated books available, shouldn't they go for a premium over what the other segment of the hobby is willing to pay for a pressed book? That is a similar circumstance to restored books.

 

I was being sarcastic, insinuating that "custodians" should buy the book to save it, and no, it would not be fair to pay extra to save the book from suspected detriment. However, if it is truly an undisturbed gem to the potential buyer, I don't see why they would not be fine paying a premium.

 

 

 

Well, like I said, I'd be willing to pay a premium but I guess it's a question of how much?

Paying the equivalent of the grade difference seems a lot to me but then again, I've never understood the huge amounts that some collectors are willing to pay for very small difference in condition at the higher end of collecting. Even more confusing when they're paying these amounts of money just because the label tells them that there is a very small diference in condition.

One of the dislikes that I have for pressing is that it keeps pushing prices up higher than they would otherwise be. With more pressers willing to pay higher prices just to get the extra profit from the grade increase it leaves the collectors in my league, less able to afford the comics that we would like so in effect, we are already paying extra due to the practice which makes it even harder to swallow that we would now have to pay even more if unpressed books command a much higher premium.

 

BTW, I did the the sarcasm about the "custodians".

 

Wasn't / Isn't the demand and high price for high ultra high grade books established by the buyers and the consumer confidence that came with the advent of CGC and the encapsulation of books.

 

The rise of pressing has actually probably had a direct effect on the softening of value placed on high grade books, ( an expressed fear of many preaching the apocalypse). This has made them more accessible, thus decreasing demand and price, which seems as though it would be of benefit to more collectors such as yourself.

 

So, until the market really does command a real premium for unpressed books, it seems as though it may be an ideal market for those that prefer unpressed books. They can be had for the same price as pressed books in a softer more affordable market. The only challenge to is to find the un-manipulated books, and I believe the best way to do that is ask about what you are buying, and hopefully most sellers will be honest.

 

Sounds like a win, win to me.

[Dale Roberts]

While I'd be willing to pay a bit of a premium for a comic that I was sure was unpressed, 9.4 prices for a 9.2 book would be a bit much.

 

How could you be certain that it had never been pressed. It may have gained a pressable defect since being pressed.

 

There's no certainty that a comic would obtain the higher grade if it was pressed.

 

It still strikes me as unfair to pay extra for the seller to not do something that is seen by the buyer as detrimental to the book.

 

 

Mike, While I certainly see your point of view as a seller not leaving money on the table, I'm sure you can see mine too.

 

Yes I do see your point, although I hear an awful lot about the holiness of these unmolested books.

 

With the "large segment" that prefers un-manipulated books (and detests pressed books), and the decreasing number of un-manipulated books available, shouldn't they go for a premium over what the other segment of the hobby is willing to pay for a pressed book? That is a similar circumstance to restored books.

 

I was being sarcastic, insinuating that "custodians" should buy the book to save it, and no, it would not be fair to pay extra to save the book from suspected detriment. However, if it is truly an undisturbed gem to the potential buyer, I don't see why they would not be fine paying a premium.

 

 

I would believe that a few people on these Boards would step up to the plate and pay a premium for such books. Guys like F_T, Awe4One, Beyonder, and a few others likely would if the book fit within their collecting parameters and was legitimately untouched.

 

But then how long until the complaining begins about having to pay extra to buy books that have not been pressed?

 

If anyone has unslabbed raw books that are currently 9.2s, and they improvable by pressing, I will pay you a premium for the all day long. I would certainly pay double 9.2 guide on many books.

[Flaming_Telepath]

While I'd be willing to pay a bit of a premium for a comic that I was sure was unpressed, 9.4 prices for a 9.2 book would be a bit much.

 

How could you be certain that it had never been pressed. It may have gained a pressable defect since being pressed.

 

There's no certainty that a comic would obtain the higher grade if it was pressed.

 

It still strikes me as unfair to pay extra for the seller to not do something that is seen by the buyer as detrimental to the book.

 

 

Mike, While I certainly see your point of view as a seller not leaving money on the table, I'm sure you can see mine too.

 

Yes I do see your point, although I hear an awful lot about the holiness of these unmolested books.

 

With the "large segment" that prefers un-manipulated books (and detests pressed books), and the decreasing number of un-manipulated books available, shouldn't they go for a premium over what the other segment of the hobby is willing to pay for a pressed book? That is a similar circumstance to restored books.

 

I was being sarcastic, insinuating that "custodians" should buy the book to save it, and no, it would not be fair to pay extra to save the book from suspected detriment. However, if it is truly an undisturbed gem to the potential buyer, I don't see why they would not be fine paying a premium.

 

 

I would believe that a few people on these Boards would step up to the plate and pay a premium for such books. Guys like F_T, Awe4One, Beyonder, and a few others likely would if the book fit within their collecting parameters and was legitimately untouched.

 

But then how long until the complaining begins about having to pay extra to buy books that have not been pressed?

 

From me? It wouldn't. Price point is not an issue when I'm buying something that fits perfectly into my small, but well-formed, collection.

[arexcrooke]

There would be exceptions to what I think would eventually happen. Like someone else mentioned there are several people here who wouldnt mind.

 

But I can hear the crying, wailing, and gnashing of teeth from others who complain about having to pay more for a book that isnt pressed.

 

 

[faster friends]

While I'd be willing to pay a bit of a premium for a comic that I was sure was unpressed, 9.4 prices for a 9.2 book would be a bit much.

 

How could you be certain that it had never been pressed. It may have gained a pressable defect since being pressed.

 

There's no certainty that a comic would obtain the higher grade if it was pressed.

 

It still strikes me as unfair to pay extra for the seller to not do something that is seen by the buyer as detrimental to the book.

 

 

Mike, While I certainly see your point of view as a seller not leaving money on the table, I'm sure you can see mine too.

 

Yes I do see your point, although I hear an awful lot about the holiness of these unmolested books.

 

With the "large segment" that prefers un-manipulated books (and detests pressed books), and the decreasing number of un-manipulated books available, shouldn't they go for a premium over what the other segment of the hobby is willing to pay for a pressed book? That is a similar circumstance to restored books.

 

I was being sarcastic, insinuating that "custodians" should buy the book to save it, and no, it would not be fair to pay extra to save the book from suspected detriment. However, if it is truly an undisturbed gem to the potential buyer, I don't see why they would not be fine paying a premium.

 

 

I would believe that a few people on these Boards would step up to the plate and pay a premium for such books. Guys like F_T, Awe4One, Beyonder, and a few others likely would if the book fit within their collecting parameters and was legitimately untouched.

 

But then how long until the complaining begins about having to pay extra to buy books that have not been pressed?

 

If anyone has unslabbed raw books that are currently 9.2s, and they improvable by pressing, I will pay you a premium for the all day long. I would certainly pay double 9.2 guide on many books.

 

Dale, I have lots of dealer stock 9.2+ books that I would like to sell you for double guide. PM me

[Theagenes]

.

[sckao]

 

This whole debate seems ridiculous. Yes, there's the hobby and keeping it "pure", but there's also personal circumstance.

 

In a perfect world, no one would need money.

 

However, in today's imperfect world, if you need the money for whatever reason, (tragedy, birth, house, accident, medical bills, etc.), then it's up to you to do whatever you need to for yourself and your family. If that means maximizing what your collection will net you, then do it. And good luck to you.

 

 

 

 

 

[gaz973]

However, in today's imperfect world, if you need the money for whatever reason, (tragedy, birth, house, accident, medical bills, etc.), then it's up to you to do whatever you need to for yourself and your family. If that means maximizing what your collection will net you, then do it. And good luck to you.

 

....and if maximizing what my collection will net me, means trimming? Sure, some collectors won't like it but who cares about that? As long as I need the money for whatever reason, (tragedy, birth, house, accident, medical bills, etc.), If trimming was as undetectable as pressing, there would be plenty of people playing the crack, trim, resub game and calling those who didn't like it, purists, fanatics or whiners.

[Flaming_Telepath]

However, in today's imperfect world, if you need the money for whatever reason, (tragedy, birth, house, accident, medical bills, etc.), then it's up to you to do whatever you need to for yourself and your family. If that means maximizing what your collection will net you, then do it. And good luck to you.

 

....and if maximizing what my collection will net me, means trimming? Sure, some collectors won't like it but who cares about that? As long as I need the money for whatever reason, (tragedy, birth, house, accident, medical bills, etc.), If trimming was as undetectable as pressing, there would be plenty of people playing the crack, trim, resub game and calling those who didn't like it, purists, fanatics or whiners.

 

I'll make a leap here...

 

I reckon that micro-trimming and pressing are just as 'undetectable' as each other.

[sckao]

However, in today's imperfect world, if you need the money for whatever reason, (tragedy, birth, house, accident, medical bills, etc.), then it's up to you to do whatever you need to for yourself and your family. If that means maximizing what your collection will net you, then do it. And good luck to you.

 

....and if maximizing what my collection will net me, means trimming? Sure, some collectors won't like it but who cares about that? As long as I need the money for whatever reason, (tragedy, birth, house, accident, medical bills, etc.), If trimming was as undetectable as pressing, there would be plenty of people playing the crack, trim, resub game and calling those who didn't like it, purists, fanatics or whiners.

 

I'll make a leap here...

 

I reckon that micro-trimming and pressing are just as 'undetectable' as each other.

 

Well, let's make another leap here... Eventually, technology will enable us to do pretty much anything.

 

(I believe in the work, not the paper or format.)

 

 

[DrWatson]

However, in today's imperfect world, if you need the money for whatever reason, (tragedy, birth, house, accident, medical bills, etc.), then it's up to you to do whatever you need to for yourself and your family. If that means maximizing what your collection will net you, then do it. And good luck to you.

 

....and if maximizing what my collection will net me, means trimming? Sure, some collectors won't like it but who cares about that? As long as I need the money for whatever reason, (tragedy, birth, house, accident, medical bills, etc.), If trimming was as undetectable as pressing, there would be plenty of people playing the crack, trim, resub game and calling those who didn't like it, purists, fanatics or whiners.

 

I'll make a leap here...

 

I reckon that micro-trimming and pressing are just as 'undetectable' as each other.

Okay fine, they are both easily detectable. CGC can detect them both. Trimming receives the purple label and pressing receives a blue label. There you go.

[tth2]

I think I'm always going to side with property rights.

 

In the Bizarro World of the Anti-Pressers, such things don't apply.

Don`t be asinine, George. You know full well that in the Real World, there are no absolute unfettered property rights either.

 

If you`re really trying to paint anti-pressers as anti-capitalists or anti-property rights, Gene and myself are most definitely not going to make very good poster children!

 

Really Tim, because that's what your posts come down to. Feel free to reread Nick's contributions as well.

 

How dare anyone mess with books that I might purchase one day? How dare anyone mess with my supply of available comics? You don't own these books, you're just a caretaker, so you have no right to press them.

 

Along those lines, why don't we mandate that slabbed comics never be removed from their holders, because they are more susceptible to possible damage that way? Perhaps comics shouldn't even be read or handled, because if you're a good caretaker, you'll preserve them in the best possible condition for future generations? Exactly where is the line drawn between what should and should not be done to a comic by it's rightful owner? Or is it just a moving target that suits your particular argument du jour?

 

That's just ONE of the reasons that I oppose pressing, George, not the only one. I think I first raised it as an explanation of why the "live and let live" attitude advocated by the pro-pressers doesn't work for anti-pressers. But the main reason I don't like pressing, I guess, is that at the heart of it in my opinion it's cheating, which is why I constantly equate it to juicing in sports.

[MCMiles]

Yeah, comparing trimming to pressing just doesn't work for most of us. At least not for me, because it's never been an issue of "well you can't detect it" for me. I've always thought that argument was sort of lame.

 

Pressing matters next to nothing for me because I believe literally close to nothing is being done to the book. I've also concluded that the same results in a large percentage of examples can be had by optimal storage conditions over various amounts of time depending on the degree of the defect. I base these conclusions on real life studies based on books I personally put away for 20+ years. Collections that I've purchased that were stored in various conditions for various amounts of time, and the many books that I have personally pressed.

 

If I store a book poorly, it will get downgraded for the defects accumulated from poor storage. Should a book that has defects removed from good storage conditions not be upgraded?

 

A book in a cheap super thin factory poly bag will have the overlap of the bag press an indentation in the cover after years of being stored in a tight long box. I would think the same result can be had if the book is stored again with the bag removed, except removing the indentation.

 

Yes storage is a "natural" part of a comics life - Part of it's history, and I admit there is something romantic about a books surviving many years, and being stored in just the right way to preserve it in high grade condition. I love Pedigrees for these reasons as much as any collector out there.

 

Still, IMO, based on what I know first hand, pressing is very non-invasive when done correctly and really the only difference in many cases is time. Is it a short-cut? I guess so, but it just doesn't matter to me, and apparently many others.

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

Yeah, comparing trimming to pressing just doesn't work for most of us. At least not for me, because it's never been an issue of "well you can't detect it" for me. I've always thought that argument was sort of lame.

 

Pressing matters next to nothing for me because I believe literally close to nothing is being done to the book. I've also concluded that the same results in a large percentage of examples can be had by optimal storage conditions over various amounts of time depending on the degree of the defect. I base these conclusions on real life studies based on books I personally put away for 20+ years. Collections that I've purchased that were stored in various conditions for various amounts of time, and the many books that I have personally pressed.

 

If I store a book poorly, it will get downgraded for the defects accumulated from poor storage. Should a book that has defects removed from good storage conditions not be upgraded?

 

A book in a cheap super thin factory poly bag will have the overlap of the bag press an indentation in the cover after years of being stored in a tight long box. I would think the same result can be had if the book is stored again with the bag removed, except removing the indentation.

 

Yes storage is a "natural" part of a comics life - Part of it's history, and I admit there is something romantic about a books surviving many years, and being stored in just the right way to preserve it in high grade condition. I love Pedigrees for these reasons as much as any collector out there.

 

Still, IMO, based on what I know first hand, pressing is very non-invasive when done correctly and really the only difference in many cases is time. Is it a short-cut? I guess so, but it just doesn't matter to me, and apparently many others.

 

Dirtbag.

[MCMiles]

Yeah, comparing trimming to pressing just doesn't work for most of us. At least not for me, because it's never been an issue of "well you can't detect it" for me. I've always thought that argument was sort of lame.

 

Pressing matters next to nothing for me because I believe literally close to nothing is being done to the book. I've also concluded that the same results in a large percentage of examples can be had by optimal storage conditions over various amounts of time depending on the degree of the defect. I base these conclusions on real life studies based on books I personally put away for 20+ years. Collections that I've purchased that were stored in various conditions for various amounts of time, and the many books that I have personally pressed.

 

If I store a book poorly, it will get downgraded for the defects accumulated from poor storage. Should a book that has defects removed from good storage conditions not be upgraded?

 

A book in a cheap super thin factory poly bag will have the overlap of the bag press an indentation in the cover after years of being stored in a tight long box. I would think the same result can be had if the book is stored again with the bag removed, except removing the indentation.

 

Yes storage is a "natural" part of a comics life - Part of it's history, and I admit there is something romantic about a books surviving many years, and being stored in just the right way to preserve it in high grade condition. I love Pedigrees for these reasons as much as any collector out there.

 

Still, IMO, based on what I know first hand, pressing is very non-invasive when done correctly and really the only difference in many cases is time. Is it a short-cut? I guess so, but it just doesn't matter to me, and apparently many others.

 

Dirtbag.

I've grown to be proud of it, when thinking of who actually considers me as such.

[goldust40]

 

The great MC5.

[FlyingDonut]

This is pretty sweet. Norah Jones doing AC/DC.

 

[gaz973]

Yeah, comparing trimming to pressing just doesn't work for most of us. At least not for me, because it's never been an issue of "well you can't detect it" for me. I've always thought that argument was sort of lame.

 

Pressing matters next to nothing for me because I believe literally close to nothing is being done to the book. I've also concluded that the same results in a large percentage of examples can be had by optimal storage conditions over various amounts of time depending on the degree of the defect. I base these conclusions on real life studies based on books I personally put away for 20+ years. Collections that I've purchased that were stored in various conditions for various amounts of time, and the many books that I have personally pressed.

 

If I store a book poorly, it will get downgraded for the defects accumulated from poor storage. Should a book that has defects removed from good storage conditions not be upgraded?

 

A book in a cheap super thin factory poly bag will have the overlap of the bag press an indentation in the cover after years of being stored in a tight long box. I would think the same result can be had if the book is stored again with the bag removed, except removing the indentation.

 

Yes storage is a "natural" part of a comics life - Part of it's history, and I admit there is something romantic about a books surviving many years, and being stored in just the right way to preserve it in high grade condition. I love Pedigrees for these reasons as much as any collector out there.

 

Still, IMO, based on what I know first hand, pressing is very non-invasive when done correctly and really the only difference in many cases is time. Is it a short-cut? I guess so, but it just doesn't matter to me, and apparently many others.

 

I'd agree that trimming and pressing are in different leagues to each other in invasiveness. However, when you boil it down to the basics, they are both procedures carried out on comics to make them appear newer/less flawed than they were prior to the procedure. One is definitely not accepted by the hobby and one is accepted by many.

 

If we go back a few years, pressing wasn't accepted by those who knew about it anywhere near as much as it is now. The defining poimt is that CGC decided that pressing is acceptable. If they had decided that trimming was acceptable years ago then the hobby probably would have been coming round to the idea by now, especially if a lot of the members of the hobby were making a lot of money from it.

[GACollectibles]

This is pretty sweet. Norah Jones doing AC/DC.

 

 

"Mr Lee"(as she introduces him in that clip) in the group was the bassist in my HS buddy's band, I spent hours listening to his group jam in his garage & local shows.

[THE_BEYONDER]

I find it hard to believe that micro-trimmed books are no longer getting past CGC. I also find it hard to believe that Ewert ever left. We focus a lot of our attention on pressing...when we should probably be more focused on CGC's ability to detect trimming.