How in the world did this go unnoticed???

[szelim]

A 32 page comic is 8 pieces of paper isn't it? plus 2 staples.

 

 

Nine, actually.

 

I see... the cover isn't counted. (thumbs u

 

I was wondering how you got 17 pieces...

 

Huh? Don't the pages of the cover get counted in coming up with a total page count?

[FlyingDonut]

So, would it be fair to say that the "hobby" for most in this thread isn't collecting comic books but rather arguing endlessly about the restoration of comic books?

 

Is everyone just trying to protect their investments at this point?

 

You've made far too many generalizations.

 

Fixed it for you

 

So, would it be fair to say that the "hobby" for most in this thread isn't collecting comic books but rather arguing endlessly about the restoration of comic books?

 

Is everyone just trying to protect their investments at this point?

 

There you go.

 

What happened to your Hedgehog avatar?

 

 

New year, new avatar. Ron may make cameo appearances.

[Moondog]

I'm still not sure how any company that wants to make money grading comic books is going to survive by putting a "pressed" designation on any book that passes whatever nigh-miraculous test that can be developed.

 

I mean, even if somehow they can figure that a book has been artificially manipulated by being placed in a dry mount press and not just stuck under a set of encyclopedias, at the bottom of a large stack of books or wedged into a too tightly-packed longbox - which is a BIG FRIGGING IF - they still are going to have to deal with the same challenges CGC dealt with.

 

Which is all a red herring, anyway. CGC is the 3rd party grading company. Like it or not, but that's what we have today. A new company is not going to fix the "pressing problem." The only way people who don't want books to be pressed are going to 'win' is a two-stage plan.

 

Step one is to convince CGC that pressing detection is necessary.

 

Step two is to convince people who currently are either aware of pressing and don't care or who are unaware of pressing that they need to stop buying pressed books. Once people who press are hit in the wallet, they'll stop.

 

Good luck with that

 

CGC could detect manipulation if it had previously graded the book. This detection would be costly but very doable.

[Subliminal]

I kinda like this one too....

 

 

this is a chop, btw

 

This is my life

[sborock]

I'm still not sure how any company that wants to make money grading comic books is going to survive by putting a "pressed" designation on any book that passes whatever nigh-miraculous test that can be developed.

 

I mean, even if somehow they can figure that a book has been artificially manipulated by being placed in a dry mount press and not just stuck under a set of encyclopedias, at the bottom of a large stack of books or wedged into a too tightly-packed longbox - which is a BIG FRIGGING IF - they still are going to have to deal with the same challenges CGC dealt with.

 

Which is all a red herring, anyway. CGC is the 3rd party grading company. Like it or not, but that's what we have today. A new company is not going to fix the "pressing problem." The only way people who don't want books to be pressed are going to 'win' is a two-stage plan.

 

Step one is to convince CGC that pressing detection is necessary.

 

Step two is to convince people who currently are either aware of pressing and don't care or who are unaware of pressing that they need to stop buying pressed books. Once people who press are hit in the wallet, they'll stop.

 

Good luck with that

 

CGC could detect manipulation if it had previously graded the book. This detection would be costly but very doable.

 

And very time consuming.

 

If that does occur, imagine the outrage on these boards, and the hobby in general, when CGC doubles prices and has longer turn times.

 

I think they will let another certification service try this first.

[GACollectibles]

I'm still not sure how any company that wants to make money grading comic books is going to survive by putting a "pressed" designation on any book that passes whatever nigh-miraculous test that can be developed.

 

I mean, even if somehow they can figure that a book has been artificially manipulated by being placed in a dry mount press and not just stuck under a set of encyclopedias, at the bottom of a large stack of books or wedged into a too tightly-packed longbox - which is a BIG FRIGGING IF - they still are going to have to deal with the same challenges CGC dealt with.

 

Which is all a red herring, anyway. CGC is the 3rd party grading company. Like it or not, but that's what we have today. A new company is not going to fix the "pressing problem." The only way people who don't want books to be pressed are going to 'win' is a two-stage plan.

 

Step one is to convince CGC that pressing detection is necessary.

 

Step two is to convince people who currently are either aware of pressing and don't care or who are unaware of pressing that they need to stop buying pressed books. Once people who press are hit in the wallet, they'll stop.

 

Good luck with that

 

CGC could detect manipulation if it had previously graded the book. This detection would be costly but very doable.

 

So you are claiming CGC can differentiate between "artificially manipulated by being placed in a dry mount press and not just stuck under a set of encyclopedias, at the bottom of a large stack of books or wedged into a too tightly-packed longbox"?

 

 

[DrWatson]

I'm still not sure how any company that wants to make money grading comic books is going to survive by putting a "pressed" designation on any book that passes whatever nigh-miraculous test that can be developed.

 

I mean, even if somehow they can figure that a book has been artificially manipulated by being placed in a dry mount press and not just stuck under a set of encyclopedias, at the bottom of a large stack of books or wedged into a too tightly-packed longbox - which is a BIG FRIGGING IF - they still are going to have to deal with the same challenges CGC dealt with.

 

Which is all a red herring, anyway. CGC is the 3rd party grading company. Like it or not, but that's what we have today. A new company is not going to fix the "pressing problem." The only way people who don't want books to be pressed are going to 'win' is a two-stage plan.

 

Step one is to convince CGC that pressing detection is necessary.

 

Step two is to convince people who currently are either aware of pressing and don't care or who are unaware of pressing that they need to stop buying pressed books. Once people who press are hit in the wallet, they'll stop.

 

Good luck with that

 

CGC could detect manipulation if it had previously graded the book. This detection would be costly but very doable.

 

And very time consuming.

 

If that does occur, imagine the outrage on these boards, and the hobby in general, when CGC doubles prices and has longer turn times.

Wow, I can only imagine the wailing and gnashing of teeth if the line to the gravy train got any longer.

 

[MCMiles]

I'd like to know how CGC is going to identify with certainty that they have previously graded a book.

[sborock]

I'm still not sure how any company that wants to make money grading comic books is going to survive by putting a "pressed" designation on any book that passes whatever nigh-miraculous test that can be developed.

 

I mean, even if somehow they can figure that a book has been artificially manipulated by being placed in a dry mount press and not just stuck under a set of encyclopedias, at the bottom of a large stack of books or wedged into a too tightly-packed longbox - which is a BIG FRIGGING IF - they still are going to have to deal with the same challenges CGC dealt with.

 

Which is all a red herring, anyway. CGC is the 3rd party grading company. Like it or not, but that's what we have today. A new company is not going to fix the "pressing problem." The only way people who don't want books to be pressed are going to 'win' is a two-stage plan.

 

Step one is to convince CGC that pressing detection is necessary.

 

Step two is to convince people who currently are either aware of pressing and don't care or who are unaware of pressing that they need to stop buying pressed books. Once people who press are hit in the wallet, they'll stop.

 

Good luck with that

 

CGC could detect manipulation if it had previously graded the book. This detection would be costly but very doable.

 

So you are claiming CGC can differentiate between "artificially manipulated by being placed in a dry mount press and not just stuck under a set of encyclopedias, at the bottom of a large stack of books or wedged into a too tightly-packed longbox"?

 

 

I don't think that's what Gary meant.

 

He would like CGC to keep high res scans of every book they do, then when a book comes in, say a Spidey #223, check through all the scans of that book they have ever done, see if any match, if so, then determine if it has been pressed or not.

 

Unrealistic from a for-profit company, but, as Gary said, doable.

[DrWatson]

I'd like to know how CGC is going to identify with certainty that they have previously graded a book.

Secret footage locked away in Haspel's vault. This is also where he keeps the Haspel Hammer. He's nicknamed it "Frankie."

[VintageComics]

So you are claiming CGC can differentiate between "artificially manipulated by being placed in a dry mount press and not just stuck under a set of encyclopedias, at the bottom of a large stack of books or wedged into a too tightly-packed longbox"?

 

 

I think what he is saying is that if CGC kept scans and compared every book, they'd be able to keep track of upgrades.

 

I still think it will be near impossible to detect a properly pressed book scientifically.

 

I could be wrong, but because the book has already been subjected to heat and pressure during the printing process, and books are regularly subjected to heat in warmer climates and pressure in certain storage conditions it would be really, really tough to isolate the characteristics of a pressed book with any reasonable accuracy in a time effective and a cost effective method.

 

I mean sure, if you wanted to have a book analyzed in a lab for a few days you might be able to get some idea of whether the book may have encountered "press like" conditions, but I really don't think you will ever be able to prove and isolate all books to simply "pressed" or "unpressed" categories.

 

At best, you will have a majority of books in the middle "unknown" territory.

 

The cost, should this ever become possible, would be enormous, relatively speaking.

 

If indeed pressing causes some sort of advanced decay to the book (which is both unproven and not likely for every pressed book since pressing methods vary), then this is where that technology might be useful...but not in the detection of actual pressing itself.

 

Right now people are basing prices paid for a book on the whiteness of paper because they assume there is a direct correlation between whiteness and longevity. This is not necessarily the case for every book.

 

I can see a technology taking root whereby the paper of an Action #1 or Detective #27 or a Marvel #1 are subjected to some form of lab testing to figure out how far advanced the decay of the paper is. For books like this, it would make sense to have some sort of barometer for this sort of longevity and cost would not be as prohibitive.

 

To simply subject every book to a similar sort of test just doesn't sound feasible.

 

Then we have to ask the question, who will want yet another set of hands handling their treasures for lab testing? More shipping, more hands, more possibility of damage.

 

It's a great topic in and of itself.

[GACollectibles]

I'm still not sure how any company that wants to make money grading comic books is going to survive by putting a "pressed" designation on any book that passes whatever nigh-miraculous test that can be developed.

 

I mean, even if somehow they can figure that a book has been artificially manipulated by being placed in a dry mount press and not just stuck under a set of encyclopedias, at the bottom of a large stack of books or wedged into a too tightly-packed longbox - which is a BIG FRIGGING IF - they still are going to have to deal with the same challenges CGC dealt with.

 

Which is all a red herring, anyway. CGC is the 3rd party grading company. Like it or not, but that's what we have today. A new company is not going to fix the "pressing problem." The only way people who don't want books to be pressed are going to 'win' is a two-stage plan.

 

Step one is to convince CGC that pressing detection is necessary.

 

Step two is to convince people who currently are either aware of pressing and don't care or who are unaware of pressing that they need to stop buying pressed books. Once people who press are hit in the wallet, they'll stop.

 

Good luck with that

 

CGC could detect manipulation if it had previously graded the book. This detection would be costly but very doable.

 

So you are claiming CGC can differentiate between "artificially manipulated by being placed in a dry mount press and not just stuck under a set of encyclopedias, at the bottom of a large stack of books or wedged into a too tightly-packed longbox"?

 

 

I don't think that's what Gary meant.

 

He would like CGC to keep high res scans of every book they do, then when a book comes in, say a Spidey #223, check through all the scans of that book they have ever done, see if any match, if so, then determine if it has been pressed or not.

 

Unrealistic from a for-profit company, but, as Gary said, doable.

 

He said it was doable to determine if there was manipulation. That would include: stuck under a set of encyclopedias, at the bottom of a large stack of books or wedged into a too tightly-packed longbox. So if it were one of those, it would result in a "pressed" designation?

 

And as for figuring out which method that had been used, because some would be acceptable to collectors and some wouldn't, how would CGC be able to determine the method? Check for "Encyclopedia Britanica" impression residues? Comic book psychic?

 

[MutantKeys]

I'm still not sure how any company that wants to make money grading comic books is going to survive by putting a "pressed" designation on any book that passes whatever nigh-miraculous test that can be developed.

 

I mean, even if somehow they can figure that a book has been artificially manipulated by being placed in a dry mount press and not just stuck under a set of encyclopedias, at the bottom of a large stack of books or wedged into a too tightly-packed longbox - which is a BIG FRIGGING IF - they still are going to have to deal with the same challenges CGC dealt with.

 

Which is all a red herring, anyway. CGC is the 3rd party grading company. Like it or not, but that's what we have today. A new company is not going to fix the "pressing problem." The only way people who don't want books to be pressed are going to 'win' is a two-stage plan.

 

Step one is to convince CGC that pressing detection is necessary.

 

Step two is to convince people who currently are either aware of pressing and don't care or who are unaware of pressing that they need to stop buying pressed books. Once people who press are hit in the wallet, they'll stop.

 

Good luck with that

 

CGC could detect manipulation if it had previously graded the book. This detection would be costly but very doable.

 

So you are claiming CGC can differentiate between "artificially manipulated by being placed in a dry mount press and not just stuck under a set of encyclopedias, at the bottom of a large stack of books or wedged into a too tightly-packed longbox"?

 

 

I don't think that's what Gary meant.

 

He would like CGC to keep high res scans of every book they do, then when a book comes in, say a Spidey #223, check through all the scans of that book they have ever done, see if any match, if so, then determine if it has been pressed or not.

 

Unrealistic from a for-profit company, but, as Gary said, doable.

Imagine looking through the scans of every Wolverine 1 or ASM 300 in 9.6/9.8

[joeypost]

I'm still not sure how any company that wants to make money grading comic books is going to survive by putting a "pressed" designation on any book that passes whatever nigh-miraculous test that can be developed.

 

I mean, even if somehow they can figure that a book has been artificially manipulated by being placed in a dry mount press and not just stuck under a set of encyclopedias, at the bottom of a large stack of books or wedged into a too tightly-packed longbox - which is a BIG FRIGGING IF - they still are going to have to deal with the same challenges CGC dealt with.

 

Which is all a red herring, anyway. CGC is the 3rd party grading company. Like it or not, but that's what we have today. A new company is not going to fix the "pressing problem." The only way people who don't want books to be pressed are going to 'win' is a two-stage plan.

 

Step one is to convince CGC that pressing detection is necessary.

 

Step two is to convince people who currently are either aware of pressing and don't care or who are unaware of pressing that they need to stop buying pressed books. Once people who press are hit in the wallet, they'll stop.

 

Good luck with that

 

CGC could detect manipulation if it had previously graded the book. This detection would be costly but very doable.

 

Maybe you could donate your time for this to happen.

[DrWatson]

I'm still not sure how any company that wants to make money grading comic books is going to survive by putting a "pressed" designation on any book that passes whatever nigh-miraculous test that can be developed.

 

I mean, even if somehow they can figure that a book has been artificially manipulated by being placed in a dry mount press and not just stuck under a set of encyclopedias, at the bottom of a large stack of books or wedged into a too tightly-packed longbox - which is a BIG FRIGGING IF - they still are going to have to deal with the same challenges CGC dealt with.

 

Which is all a red herring, anyway. CGC is the 3rd party grading company. Like it or not, but that's what we have today. A new company is not going to fix the "pressing problem." The only way people who don't want books to be pressed are going to 'win' is a two-stage plan.

 

Step one is to convince CGC that pressing detection is necessary.

 

Step two is to convince people who currently are either aware of pressing and don't care or who are unaware of pressing that they need to stop buying pressed books. Once people who press are hit in the wallet, they'll stop.

 

Good luck with that

 

CGC could detect manipulation if it had previously graded the book. This detection would be costly but very doable.

 

Maybe you could donate your time for this to happen.

I don't think Gary meant he would be investing any of his personal time into the project.

[MCMiles]

Not that I think it's remotely possible, but I'm sure the added time, cost, and risks would be well worth it to a customer base that largely doesn't give a flyin' flip about it anyway.

[MCMiles]

I'd like to know how CGC is going to identify with certainty that they have previously graded a book.

Secret footage locked away in Haspel's vault. This is also where he keeps the Haspel Hammer. He's nicknamed it "Frankie."

Seems to be a popular name for hammers.

[Davenport]

This has been one of the most civil and thoughtful debate threads, probably ever. It's interesting reading both sides, plus it hasn't been locked or deleted ( ) .

 

Kudos to our host... and contributing participants! (thumbs u Good stuff.

 

 

[Monstro]

I understand that no one wants to give up the secrets of the trade, but can one of you guys that have a press please shoot a video and post it so we can see what all is involved?

[VintageComics]

I understand that no one wants to give up the secrets of the trade, but can one of you guys that have a press please shoot a video and post it so we can see what all is involved?

 

It's hard to talk to anyone when you're on ignore, isn't it?