High grade FF Thread

[COI]

It was mentioned in another post that a thread should be started only about high grade FF.

 

For all you collectors/investors/dealers or whatever you call yourselves, here are some questions to get the ball rolling:

 

Favorite issues/covers?

Toughest issues to find raw and CGC'd(besides the no-brainers ie: #1-13)

Values: Under valued, or over valued issues

Best FF books in your collection(slabbed or raw)

Best FF deals you've gotten.

 

I'll come in later with my comments.

 

 

[murph0]

FF 52 is nice..

 

Brian

[aardvark88]

FF 1 underpriced compared to the MUCH more common ASM #1. FF 51 best single story w/ Thing cvr. Always popular & scarce in cgc 9.0 up. FF 48 gr8 bk but too many copies in circulation still. FF 49 & 50 underpriced in guide & command hi-premiums slabbed at 9.2 up compared to FF 48. FF 72 classic S Surfer cvr w/ red background underpriced compared to FF 55 Surfer cvr on dark blue background. FF 73 gr8 FF vs Thor, DD, ASM cvr w/ white background, underpriced, hi-demand w/ x-over collectors. FF 128 is the issue w/ the pull out GLOSSY color centerfold. Shows Dr Doom, Moleman, Subby, FF, Galactus, Surfer, Frightful 4 by J Buscema. 1 of the best comic related centerfolds of ALL time. Not really broken out in the guide... yet.

[FlComicFan]

#45 Inhumans cheap by guide as is #52 1st Panther one is dark blue other is black cover both are much scarcer in highgrade yet guide for a small fraction of the more common #48 #116 being adouble sized squarebound is tough/cheap by guide Actually being as FF was the key Marvel title for many years you can argue that most of 1-150 are underpriced as compared to Spider-Man If I was to choose I'd rather have the FF's as far as growth potential Spidey is getting damned expensive

[aardvark88]

Start stocking up FFs in anticipation of the inevitable movie. Plans for Iron Man (Josh Whedon) movie just went down the drain.

[murph0]

How could they possible make an FF movie that actually LOOKS decent?

 

Brian

[blowout]

they already made an ff movie and it was terrible, to me the ff are pretty dated now and am not sure if they are suitable for a big movie/ mass market acceptance.

unless of course they get the joe Q treatment............

how bout the thing in a leather jumpsuit

[COI]

Spider-Man has always been a fan favorite but IMO FF is more significant to Marvel's history. A lot of important characters were born in the pages of FF that went on independently from the title. With a few exceptions, most characters introduced in Spider-Man remained mostly a part of his world and never went on to much else. Some exceptions would be Punisher and Kingpin.

 

FF 1 is undervalued in the guide, but not on the open market. A CGC 9.4 Spidey 1 would run about 60K, while a CGC 9.4 FF 1 sold for just over 100k in July's The Mint BSD auction. I'm not sure about ungraded lower grades, but in the high grade market, FF 1 is definetly more coveted.But when you move up the run, I agree that FF's are greatly undervalued in comparison to Spidey, especially the first 20 issues. FF 1-10 should be worth more considering they were a lot more significant than spidey 1-10.

 

An FF movie could be good, but it would require a drastic face lift for the big screen. Even DD underwent a facelift, and the Frank Miller era which the movie is based on is as far from dated and as close to gritty realism as Superhero comics get.

[blowout]

"FF's are greatly undervalued in comparison to Spidey, especially the first 20 issues. FF 1-10 should be worth more considering they were a lot more significant than spidey 1-10."

 

don't agree with this statement at all.

who is the ff 1-10 run more significant to?

a handfull of ff collectors.

whereas the spidey run is in far greater demand, therefore is more significant to a lot more people, thus higher prices.

the market dictates the price of comic books, and to say that ff's are undervalued after 40+ years of market activity is misleading.

 

also, spidey as a character has stood the test of time far bettter than the ff IMHO. the fact of the matter is that while the ff may have been more significant/ collectable back in the 60's, that is obviously not the case now.

[Guest]

who is the ff 1-10 run more significant to

 

Silver Age marvel collectors and people who look at the marvel universe as a whole as a collecting realm. 1st Doom, 1st Silver Age Sub Mariner, 1st Villain Team Up (and for those with a cosimc marvel bent- 1st Skrulls)? To me, aside from the number 1 which is obviously significant, no spidey 1-10 can compare. Personally, FF5 is more important than any single ASM book (although 1,14 and 50 are close behind it.) AF 15 trumps it, of course.

 

Now, obviously I'm not going to argue against popularity, etc, in terms of pricing. But when you look at the marvel universe as a whole, there are only a handful of books from Spidey's run that are even in the universe shaping league of those early FFs.

[blowout]

mudd, i agree with what you are saying but as i said earlier, the influences of the ff on the MU and comics in general all occured in the 60's.

the characters have not stood the test of time or achieved the longevity of spidey in terms of influence. they don't have that pull over generations not directly influenced by the SA like spidey does, so the collector base is never gonna do anything but shrink.

some obvious examples of influencial spideys post silver age:

 

ASM #121 first major death in comics

ASM #122 first major villain death in comics

ASM #129 first punisher (hearalds slew of anti-heroes)

 

[murph0]

Personally, I could careless about Dr. Doom and Sub-mariner. These characters aren't universally important to everyone who collects Marvel. Arguing who introduced the most new characters really doesn't justify the "FF books should be more valuable" position...although it may justify they are of more importance to the Marvel universe as a whole.

 

Brian

[PovertyRow]

ASM #129 first punisher (hearalds slew of anti-heroes)

 

Have to disagree here. Punisher came out in '74. Conan came out in '70. Ghost Rider (cycle boy) and Werewolf By Night came out in 72. Tomb of Dracula in '72. Monster of Frankenstein in '73. Many anti-heroes came out sionce Conan. Punisher was just one that was incorporated into an already popular book.

[murph0]

Werewolf by Night, Tomb of Dracula, and Ghost Rider were all mostly considered horror books when they came out..except for Ghost Rider, I'd still consider them to be that..as opposed to anti-hero.

 

Brian

[Guest]

murph, you're a spider-man collector to the nth degree who branches out on occasion to other books, if they strike your fancy. Meaning? I could have guessed you were going to answer in just that way. Although I'm not arguing that the FF books should be more valuable. That's a market decision.

[murph0]

I'm just saying that even though other books may have spawned from the FF run, it doesn't really mean all that much. The Submariner run is basically unimportant to the vast majority of collectors, by looking at the back issue sales. Dr. Doom? Is he even in comics other then FF? Spiderman is far more relatable then FF, and it's shown in the fact that Spidey is much more popular and universally known. As far as the Spiderman issues being more available, it's a product of the popularity. About 4 years ago, it was fairly tough picking up issues..now a days they just come out of the woodwork. If FF ever becomes that way, I guarantee more copies show up as FF was Marvel's flagship title for the early part of its tenure...so to say people only collected and saved Spidey books in great condition probably isn't all that correct.

 

Brian

[PovertyRow]

Werewolf by Night, Tomb of Dracula, and Ghost Rider were all mostly considered horror books when they came out..except for Ghost Rider, I'd still consider them to be that..as opposed to anti-hero.

 

I don;t know. I think we have to now define "anti-hero". (Oh - let's not forget Swamp Thing and Man-Thing) in this definition.) These folk were, in their way, heores, but also, in their way, anti-heroes. They tended to the dark side and sometimes were outright deadly. But we are not talking about if a book is considered "a horror book". We are talking about anti-heroes in the 70's. And Punisher was definitely a late-comer to the foray.

 

And happy t-day to ya!

[COI]

I'm not saying that FF should be MORE valuable than Spidey, I'm only comparing them as a point of interest since they are the 2 titles that are nearest to eachother in number and significance in the Marvel Universe.

 

"Silver Age marvel collectors and people who look at the marvel universe as a whole as a collecting realm. 1st Doom, 1st Silver Age Sub Mariner, 1st Villain Team Up (and for those with a cosimc marvel bent- 1st Skrulls)? To me, aside from the number 1 which is obviously significant, no spidey 1-10 can compare."

 

This was my point exactly. Importance isn't just about longevity, especially when talking about new books. The success and popularity of new books has a lot more to do with the actual creators and quality of product, not its Silver Age history. Back isssue prices are also not a clear barometer for measuring the importance of a series to comic history. Frank Miller's run on DD is quite significant to comics, just as Neal Adam's run on GL was, DK Returns, Watchmen etc.... These books are very significant to comics as an art form, but are not very expensive, even with large demand, because they aren't hard to find. The other side of that coin is something like Ultimate Spiderman, where there is not much significance, but lots of popularity and even some ridiculous prices.

 

The point is, in the history of comics, FF #1-10 is VERY significant regardless of whether or not you like Sub-Mariner or DR Doom because it was a series of firsts and in essence, the birth of the marvel age. I do agree that ASM is a better read than FF, and I'm not really biased towards FF because I actually like ASM more, but I have to give FF credit not for popularity or demand, but for being more important to the history of comics overall.

[aardvark88]

Comparing FF 1-50 w/ ASM 1-50, I would say FF introduced more characters important to the Marvel mythos.

Let's look at just FF 45-52. Tremendous stories & art including intro & 1st Inhumans (later a series by G Perez & Jae Lee), Black Bolt, Gorgon, Mme Medusa (joined Frightful 4 previously), Black Panther (Jungle Action & Kirby short series), S Surfer (multiple series), Galactus (x-overs in Thor) & Watcher (S Surfer back up stories, What If series 1, 2, Contest of Champions?) trilogy.

[COI]

I agree. For anyone who hasn't, get some low grade copies and read FF from #45-60. Tremendous run, easily one of the best of the silver age.