Anyone collect both OA and high-grade slabs?

[tth2]

Wow, thanks for that. Absolutely ridiculous, THAT comic at that price is hilarious. There is no doubt in my mind that this is the type of the comics market that will collapse, if it hasn't already begun to.

The problem is that this kind of statement has been made about the market every year since 1939! Certainly since any kind of organized comic collecting started taking shape in the mid-1960s.

[mister_not_so_nice]

$100 for a comic OR $100 for a one of a kind published page?

$1000 for a comic OR $1000 for a beautiful painted published cover?

 

For me the choice is simple

Unfortunately, that`s usually not the choice we`re presented with. It`s more like $1000-$10,000 for a page, and $50,000-$150,000 for a cover.

unless it's lackluster

 

Depends on what you like. I have zero interest in owning Kirby, Romita, Adams(Neal, Art is a differeent story) and the like. But I'm perfectly happy to add a Fabry painting to my LACKLUSTER collection for $1000 or less.

 

I think I need to bump the "What art can you get for $300" thread

 

 

 

Lackluster

Interesting. Any idea what a Fabry cover from the classic Garth Ennis run on Hellblazer would go for?

UNDER $1000

 

[comicdonna]

I'm thinking about getting a 9.8 slab to go with my cover art in my sig.

[fc]

Wow, thanks for that. Absolutely ridiculous, THAT comic at that price is hilarious. There is no doubt in my mind that this is the type of the comics market that will collapse, if it hasn't already begun to.

The problem is that this kind of statement has been made about the market every year since 1939! Certainly since any kind of organized comic collecting started taking shape in the mid-1960s.

 

the difference between past statements and now is that other collectible areas

already know how the slab craze plays out. i think comics are at the stage where

there is not enough slabbed material to go around and people are fighting for it.

wait several years and see how this reaches equilibrium and then saturation.

 

your statement may be referring to core/key material and that may make it true.

surely the sheer majority of books that does not hold true at all.

[Nexus]

Wow, thanks for that. Absolutely ridiculous, THAT comic at that price is hilarious. There is no doubt in my mind that this is the type of the comics market that will collapse, if it hasn't already begun to.

 

You're welcome. There's nothing like rationalizing what we spend on art when seeing what other people spend on graded comics.

 

Krap, did I just give dealers some ammo?

[Nexus]

Interesting. Any idea what a Fabry cover from the classic Garth Ennis run on Hellblazer would go for?

 

The Fabry HB covers I've seen have generally been around $1K, give or take. CAF Market Data bears that out:

 

http://www.comicartfans.com/AuctionAdvancedSearch.asp

 

As for a Fabry cover from the Ennis run...the very best one of those that I saw was the cover to the "Dangerous Habits" tpb (also happens to be my favorite Ennis storyline). That was sold by Albert Moy in 2007 for $2500, iirc...maybe $3K. I just missed out on it. A fellow boardie bought it, don't know if he still has it.

[otherworldsj33]

Wow, thanks for that. Absolutely ridiculous, THAT comic at that price is hilarious. There is no doubt in my mind that this is the type of the comics market that will collapse, if it hasn't already begun to.

The problem is that this kind of statement has been made about the market every year since 1939! Certainly since any kind of organized comic collecting started taking shape in the mid-1960s.

It's true, that statement has been made many times before. I do think though, that this time is different. As mentioned, maybe the best of the blue chips will hold their value, but you don't see a reason for concern when a comic from the early 90's sells for about 12K, or a (maybe pressed) comic from 1969 has a asking price of 34K? Or when a grade can go morph 9.2 to a 9.4 or even a 9.6 just because it has been resubmitted. That's not even getting into all the pressed comics out there. Whats unique now is that there has never before been a comic grading company, and this grading company is putting their blessings on what is essentially lightly restored comics, not to mention the inconsistancy with grades. And BTW, as an aside, from what I have personally noticed, and have been told by restoration people, including some prominent pressers, it is discernable if a book has been pressed or not. If I remember correctly, I think it has to do with the flatness of the comic, and the way the covers line up, and a warp effect. Not 100% sure. I am sure there are some articles on this. Anyone know more about it? Anyway, back to my main point, couple that with the astronomical prices, many of us would never dream that a late 60's high grade 9.8 comic, a mini key, would sell for the mid 20K range or more, and I belive you have a very combustable situation regarding the markets health. I can't see how this is sustainable. I just don't see the value in these ultra high grades. Maybe if CGC was spot on with it's grading, and pressing were disclosed, but not with all these variables. That Cap 117 is rightly a 8-10K comic, if even that.

[otherworldsj33]

To add another comment about the grade infaltion due to CGC's grading and pressing. I know CGC is doing the best they can, and I respect them. Until pressing became rampant, they provided a great service to the hobby, and helped mature the market, and gave collectors confidemce they were buying a grade that was accurate, and that a comic was unrestored. And grading is not an exact science, it is partly an art, so I can see where there can be inconsistencies. The probelm with that is when it comes to high valued comics. Then a grade bump becomes critical, and can be worth thousands, if not tens of thousands of dollars. It just strkies me as crazy that a comic could be worth so much more (or less) due to what is basically as much an art as a science. It may be the collectors that are responsible as much as CGC, and the ensuing price jumps are not proportionate to the grade jumps. With so much money on the line, it does not make sense to me to put that much faith in a chameleon grade. And I did not even mention the pressing factor. I know the original reasoning was that one can place a comic under a heavy stack of books for a long time, and the comic is pressed out. Fair enough. But that is "natural" pressure, and the comic in that process has not been disassembled or heated or hydrated. And as far as I know, the process of stacking a load of books on top of a comic does not remove color break/stress lines that artifical pressing does. So where do we draw the line from what is a highly manipulative, process, one which can have a detrimental long term effect to the book, of which we are not even sure of yet, to what a stack of encyclopedias can accomplish? I liken it to lifting weights, and lifting weights on steriods. I don't know how this insanity is considered legit by CGC. It's just a cash cow for dealers, auctioneers, the restoration guys, and some collectors. But it's mostly the dealers and auctioneers making the big dollars. I wish I could print money like that. More power to them, I'm not against making money, and I've said it before, if they are smart enough to use the exisitng rules to their advantage, they should, it's good business. But that does not mean it will equate to a long term healthy market, or to the future preservation of the comics in question.

[tth2]

Interesting. Any idea what a Fabry cover from the classic Garth Ennis run on Hellblazer would go for?

 

The Fabry HB covers I've seen have generally been around $1K, give or take. CAF Market Data bears that out:

 

http://www.comicartfans.com/AuctionAdvancedSearch.asp

 

As for a Fabry cover from the Ennis run...the very best one of those that I saw was the cover to the "Dangerous Habits" tpb (also happens to be my favorite Ennis storyline). That was sold by Albert Moy in 2007 for $2500, iirc...maybe $3K. I just missed out on it. A fellow boardie bought it, don't know if he still has it.

Thanks Felix. That`s not too unreasonable, actually. I might need to start being on the lookout for any of the better covers that comes up.

[tth2]

Wow, thanks for that. Absolutely ridiculous, THAT comic at that price is hilarious. There is no doubt in my mind that this is the type of the comics market that will collapse, if it hasn't already begun to.

The problem is that this kind of statement has been made about the market every year since 1939! Certainly since any kind of organized comic collecting started taking shape in the mid-1960s.

It's true, that statement has been made many times before. I do think though, that this time is different.

I`ve heard that kind of statement many times before too!

 

As mentioned, maybe the best of the blue chips will hold their value, but you don't see a reason for concern when a comic from the early 90's sells for about 12K, or a (maybe pressed) comic from 1969 has a asking price of 34K? Or when a grade can go morph 9.2 to a 9.4 or even a 9.6 just because it has been resubmitted. That's not even getting into all the pressed comics out there. Whats unique now is that there has never before been a comic grading company, and this grading company is putting their blessings on what is essentially lightly restored comics, not to mention the inconsistancy with grades.

...

Anyway, back to my main point, couple that with the astronomical prices, many of us would never dream that a late 60's high grade 9.8 comic, a mini key, would sell for the mid 20K range or more, and I belive you have a very combustable situation regarding the markets health. I can't see how this is sustainable. I just don't see the value in these ultra high grades. Maybe if CGC was spot on with it's grading, and pressing were disclosed, but not with all these variables. That Cap 117 is rightly a 8-10K comic, if even that.

In all seriousness, the argument has been made many times, by people who were completely sincere with perfectly legitimate arguments, just as you`re making now. I`m not saying prices are NOT going to collapse. This might finally be the time that people have been predicting for several decades now. I`m just saying that I`ve seen the prediction made too many times and proven wrong too many times to say it will or won`t come true this time. What I will say is that my own comfort level at current prices is extremely low, and combined with all the shenanigans going on, I am a net seller. But it doesn`t mean that I might not be horribly wrong and in 20 or 30 years I`ll be kicking myself for letting books go for a fraction of their value in 2030 or 2040.

[stagedoorjohnny]

 

Two excellent posts. Personally, I think you are spot on. (thumbs u

 

As for the original question to this thread, I do collect high grade funny books and I just began my journey into OA. I collect exclusively Golden Age and I will always have a core collection of those books. Will I be adding to that collection going forward? My answer is: It would have to be a very special book because my confidence in the marketplace and the players that make it has been shattered. But I do plan on acquiring more pieces of art as I go forward. I think collecting both, in many ways, go hand in hand.

 

As a newbie in OA, the difficulty for me is that my interests are in Golden Age type of subject matter and material. And quite frankly, that makes the market thin. The non-GA related and newer stuff, with only a couple exceptions, does not do it for me. So patience will have to be a virtue. But I am having a lot of fun looking around and learning the marketplace.

 

I've acquired my first 3 pieces (all in color) in the last 6-9 months and I am very happy that I did. They are hanging in my office and I get more "oooo's and ahhhh's" from the common folk on those than most any book I would show them from my collection. So I do understand the affinity for OA. But I will always love Golden Age books.

[Dano]

Stagedoor,

 

It's funny, the only piece of OA I have from the Golden Age is from FIREHAIR #3, and to be honest (even thought it's a twice-up) the art isn't the sharpest and I'd actually like to either sell it or trade it away! My interest in comics stayed almost solely on the Golden Age and thought that I'd like a piece from that era... ah, well! I understand those artists were pumping the work out and maybe weren't as detailed as they'd probably like.

 

Dan

[otherworldsj33]

Anyway, back to my main point, couple that with the astronomical prices, many of us would never dream that a late 60's high grade 9.8 comic, a mini key, would sell for the mid 20K range or more, and I belive you have a very combustable situation regarding the markets health. I can't see how this is sustainable. I just don't see the value in these ultra high grades. Maybe if CGC was spot on with it's grading, and pressing were disclosed, but not with all these variables. That Cap 117 is rightly a 8-10K comic, if even that.

In all seriousness, the argument has been made many times, by people who were completely sincere with perfectly legitimate arguments, just as you`re making now. I`m not saying prices are NOT going to collapse. This might finally be the time that people have been predicting for several decades now. I`m just saying that I`ve seen the prediction made too many times and proven wrong too many times to say it will or won`t come true this time. What I will say is that my own comfort level at current prices is extremely low, and combined with all the shenanigans going on, I am a net seller. But it doesn`t mean that I might not be horribly wrong and in 20 or 30 years I`ll be kicking myself for letting books go for a fraction of their value in 2030 or 2040.

Who really knows? I like talking about, fun, stimulating conversation. I can't argue it's been said many times befoere. Of course I also belive my reasoning is valid. Actions speak louder then words, and we are both net sellers, so that speaks volumes. Glad I got into OA. keeps me off the streets...

[3319comics]

are sketch covers an inbetween for OA and comics?

[delekkerste]

To add another comment about the grade infaltion due to CGC's grading and pressing. I know CGC is doing the best they can, and I respect them. Until pressing became rampant, they provided a great service to the hobby, and helped mature the market, and gave collectors confidemce they were buying a grade that was accurate, and that a comic was unrestored. And grading is not an exact science, it is partly an art, so I can see where there can be inconsistencies. The probelm with that is when it comes to high valued comics. Then a grade bump becomes critical, and can be worth thousands, if not tens of thousands of dollars. It just strkies me as crazy that a comic could be worth so much more (or less) due to what is basically as much an art as a science. It may be the collectors that are responsible as much as CGC, and the ensuing price jumps are not proportionate to the grade jumps. With so much money on the line, it does not make sense to me to put that much faith in a chameleon grade. And I did not even mention the pressing factor. I know the original reasoning was that one can place a comic under a heavy stack of books for a long time, and the comic is pressed out. Fair enough. But that is "natural" pressure, and the comic in that process has not been disassembled or heated or hydrated. And as far as I know, the process of stacking a load of books on top of a comic does not remove color break/stress lines that artifical pressing does. So where do we draw the line from what is a highly manipulative, process, one which can have a detrimental long term effect to the book, of which we are not even sure of yet, to what a stack of encyclopedias can accomplish? I liken it to lifting weights, and lifting weights on steriods. I don't know how this insanity is considered legit by CGC. It's just a cash cow for dealers, auctioneers, the restoration guys, and some collectors. But it's mostly the dealers and auctioneers making the big dollars. I wish I could print money like that. More power to them, I'm not against making money, and I've said it before, if they are smart enough to use the exisitng rules to their advantage, they should, it's good business. But that does not mean it will equate to a long term healthy market, or to the future preservation of the comics in question.

 

Joe, we could really use your opinions and insights in this thread:

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3719009#Post3719009

 

Gene (thumbs u

[SignatureSelect]

I collect both but you sometimes have to get creative with how to balance the budget when doing that.

[stagedoorjohnny]

Stagedoor,

 

It's funny, the only piece of OA I have from the Golden Age is from FIREHAIR #3, and to be honest (even thought it's a twice-up) the art isn't the sharpest and I'd actually like to either sell it or trade it away! My interest in comics stayed almost solely on the Golden Age and thought that I'd like a piece from that era... ah, well! I understand those artists were pumping the work out and maybe weren't as detailed as they'd probably like.

 

Dan

 

 

I hear ya and agree with you, Dan. And I'm pretty picky to begin with, so that makes it an even thinner market for me. But there are still some impressive pieces out there.

 

My eye also gravitates to some of the GA artists' more recent works: recreations; updated covers; paintings and such. I also appreciate some modern artists' pieces that pay homage or give a little "tip of the cap" to Classic Golden Age covers. So for me, there is still a good amount of OA that piques my interest.

And by the way, my name is Dennis. (thumbs u Johnny is my stage name.

[TheWatcher]

Two excellent posts. Personally, I think you are spot on. (thumbs u

 

As for the original question to this thread, I do collect high grade funny books and I just began my journey into OA. I collect exclusively Golden Age and I will always have a core collection of those books. Will I be adding to that collection going forward? My answer is: It would have to be a very special book because my confidence in the marketplace and the players that make it has been shattered. But I do plan on acquiring more pieces of art as I go forward. I think collecting both, in many ways, go hand in hand.

 

As a newbie in OA, the difficulty for me is that my interests are in Golden Age type of subject matter and material. And quite frankly, that makes the market thin. The non-GA related and newer stuff, with only a couple exceptions, does not do it for me. So patience will have to be a virtue. But I am having a lot of fun looking around and learning the marketplace.

 

I've acquired my first 3 pieces (all in color) in the last 6-9 months and I am very happy that I did. They are hanging in my office and I get more "oooo's and ahhhh's" from the common folk on those than most any book I would show them from my collection. So I do understand the affinity for OA. But I will always love Golden Age books.

 

Stay away from any GA Spirit OA, Dennis

[stagedoorjohnny]

 

 

You got it, Angelo. I promise that I will never mow your grass.

[Dano]

Howdy, Dennis! I like your idea of homage covers by modern artists...

 

Dan