Action 1 sells for $1 MILLION dollars... but who cares ?

[comicartcom]

Impressed? Yes. Excited about it? I don't know.

 

I feel like the only collector in the world who is actually kind of embarassed by the sale. It seems like a lot of money for something that in real life is so trivial. It's the same age old question for collectors, once you get it, and the novelty wears off and it sits somewhere not being looked at everyday, then what really is the point, just to own it???

 

I felt embarrassed a couple of months when I bought a couple of books and realized the money I spent for a couple of comics is what I pay some of my staffs annual salary. They bust there azz 40-44 hours per week for 50 weeks, and I spend that kind of money on a whim for books, and all they are doing is sitting in glass display cabinets being looked at once a week.

 

If anything this sale has been a wake up call to me personally, as I'm beginning to wonder "what's the point". I love the art form and am very passionate about it but does owning a piece of that make someone really happy, and if it does for how long?

 

Jim

 

I have always had the same perspective.. I spend $20,000 on a poster and I am keenly aware that 50% of the population thinks I have to be nuts because that $20k is either more than or only slightly less than that 50% makes in a year.

 

which is why I have always said:

collecting comics (or anything else) is assembling something of an entirely abstract value for which only a tiny population see real value.

 

After all the news, you can probably get a guy at McDonalds to trade you burger for an Action #1. But without any such news or knowledge of any kind, the comic is useless to 99% of the people on the street

 

it shows something about cgcworld that he is an altruist with concern for other people. A quailty which is to be commended

[tylerdurden-migration]

Don't feel guilty fellas

 

It's not like you just bought the detective 27 which just closed 2 minutes ago at $900,000 plus the juice

 

With the juice thats well over a million dollars !!!!

[chrisco37]

I think he's embarrassed that something as trivial as a comic book goes for a million when so many people are trying to make ends meet. An allocation of resources question, really.

 

Exactly my point :thumbsup:

 

I can't be embarrassed about being a capitalist as I'm a business man and employ 20 people. People who bust their humps for me everyday, so I can turn a profit, which in turn I use to give them a job. What do they do with the money they earn from me, put food on the table and pay the rent. What do I do with the money they earn me, I buy a Timely for my collection. Yes, I've earned it but all I'm saying is a hobby shouldn't have million dollar pieces as by this point can it really be called a hobby anymore? It's an epiphany I'm having because of this book and just felt I'd share. Not looking for people to agree with me nor looking for a debate. Just sharing a personal conflict I'm having with my psyche right now :thumbsup:

 

Jim

 

I feel the same way when I see people post some of their books here. A little bit of envy, for sure. But, the people that can buy these books have done well for themselves and have earned that ability, so you can't be mad.

 

Still, it is mind-boggling when you consider some of the money that flies around.

 

Even if I came into a fantastic amount of wealth (ie, hit the 100+MM powerball), I don't see myself being able to drop 6-7 figures on a comic book. I'd have a real hard time breaking the 5-figure mark.

[tylerdurden-migration]

I think he's embarrassed that something as trivial as a comic book goes for a million when so many people are trying to make ends meet. An allocation of resources question, really.

 

Exactly my point :thumbsup:

 

I can't be embarrassed about being a capitalist as I'm a business man and employ 20 people. People who bust their humps for me everyday, so I can turn a profit, which in turn I use to give them a job. What do they do with the money they earn from me, put food on the table and pay the rent. What do I do with the money they earn me, I buy a Timely for my collection. Yes, I've earned it but all I'm saying is a hobby shouldn't have million dollar pieces as by this point can it really be called a hobby anymore? It's an epiphany I'm having because of this book and just felt I'd share. Not looking for people to agree with me nor looking for a debate. Just sharing a personal conflict I'm having with my psyche right now :thumbsup:

 

Jim

 

I feel the same way when I see people post some of their books here. A little bit of envy, for sure. But, the people that can buy these books have done well for themselves and have earned that ability, so you can't be mad.

 

Still, it is mind-boggling when you consider some of the money that flies around.

 

Even if I came into a fantastic amount of wealth (ie, hit the 100+MM powerball), I don't see myself being able to drop 6-7 figures on a comic book. I'd have a real hard time breaking the 5-figure mark.

 

If u were to win the 100+MM powrball u might want to diversify into some hard assets

 

I don't think these people buying the Action 1 and Det 27 are buying these books to read

[pinupcartoonguy]

Every one is or course assuming that single individual buying books at this level, but isn't possible that a group of collectors (or investors) may be buying them?

[chrisco37]

 

If u were to win the 100+MM powrball u might want to diversify into some hard assets

 

I don't think these people buying the Action 1 and Det 27 are buying these books to read

 

Obviously, they aren't going to crack and read them.

 

And, yeah, if I came into that kind of loot, I'd diversify my money. I was just saying I don't think I'd diversify it into comic books (as much as I love them).

[tylerdurden-migration]

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2010/02/25/entertainment/e154505S68.DTL&tsp=1

 

OA is really lagging begind comic books in respectability. I thought all u OA collectors claimed OA was superior to comic books ?

[fc]

this might be the point in time that one can consider that a dedicated soul in the

middle class budget range can no longer own the finest comic book in existence

for batman and superman.

 

it seems to me i remember recalling joe average who was dedicated as all get out

could afford such comics if they really stretched for it. Think 100,000 by taking

a second mortgage or what have you a decade(s) ago. The cost of a second

house so to speak.

 

I cannot picture a person making 45K-85K a year with other expenses in their lives getting

a million dollar loan. They/I/we are truly out of the high end game. Just look at that

batman comic for example. If the story is true the person bought it back in the 1960s

for 100 bucks. I would guess that during the 1970s-1990s this was probably still

attainable by joe average.

 

Just my opinion. Idle speculation. If you disagree please tell me at what point you

think joe middle class fell out of the game or is still in it!

 

I wonder when this happened to other collectibles. Like coins, cars, or sport cards?

 

 

[comicartcom]

this might be the point in time that one can consider that a dedicated soul in the

middle class budget range can no longer own the finest comic book in existence

for batman and superman.

 

it seems to me i remember recalling joe average who was dedicated as all get out

could afford such comics if they really stretched for it. Think 100,000 by taking

a second mortgage or what have you a decade(s) ago. The cost of a second

house so to speak.

 

I cannot picture a person making 45K-85K a year with other expenses in their lives getting

a million dollar loan. They/I/we are truly out of the high end game. Just look at that

batman comic for example. If the story is true the person bought it back in the 1960s

for 100 bucks. I would guess that during the 1970s-1990s this was probably still

attainable by joe average.

 

Just my opinion. Idle speculation. If you disagree please tell me at what point you

think joe middle class fell out of the game or is still in it!

 

I wonder when this happened to other collectibles. Like coins, cars, or sport cards?

 

 

the best Batman or Superman???

 

how about just any $5000 comic or art when all you make is $45k.

even a $1000 item if you have a family???

 

the large part of what I call "good stuff" in comics has been largely un-attainable by far too many collectors, who have now become "non-collectors"

 

i myself abandoned adding anything to my art collection 15 years ago in favor of movie posters (which I have also collected all along) and indeed, the prices made me only want to sell and go in another direction.

 

comparable material to what I was able to buy for $5 or less in 1965-1975 is not even on the radar because if you say it has grown to what would be $50 today, you can't find good stuff (in my opinion good stuff.. not bronze age garbage)

[fc]

 

the best Batman or Superman???

 

how about just any $5000 comic or art when all you make is $45k.

even a $1000 item if you have a family???

 

the large part of what I call "good stuff" in comics has been largely un-attainable by far too many collectors, who have now become "non-collectors"

 

i myself abandoned adding anything to my art collection 15 years ago in favor of movie posters (which I have also collected all along) and indeed, the prices made me only want to sell and go in another direction.

 

comparable material to what I was able to buy for $5 or less in 1965-1975 is not even on the radar because if you say it has grown to what would be $50 today, you can't find good stuff (in my opinion good stuff.. not bronze age garbage)

 

I see your point but perhaps this person was in the middle of their career, has a working

wife, and no kids yet. That person could "go for it" up until what point?

 

Take Action #1 in 1982. 10,000 would have bought a really nice copy right? What

did a "finest known" have sold for?

 

Then walk it up through the decades until it became impractical for this hypothetical

person to go for it.

 

just talking out of my rear.. for fun.

[ShaneTurgeon]

I had a colleague at work ask me today if i had unlimited income if i'd buy either of these comics for a mil a pop. The answer was a resounding "no" especially when a decent, ungraded copy can be had for a fraction of that. But then again, whether it was toys, comics, or posters, i've never been a "condition" guy, i've always been a "rare" guy. I guess that's why i ultimately gravitated towards prototypes and art because in most cases, there's only one of them and if you want it, you have to accept it no matter what shape it's in.

 

I remember Jim discussing this very thing, back on another board, a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away, before he abandoned us all for his new love here (we miss you Jim ) and i couldn't then and i still can't wrap my head around putting condition ahead of rarity as a focus (and paying through the nose for it too boot) but obviously a lot of people do and that's totally their prerogative. Me, i'm perfectly happy with my ungraded, average yet very displayable copies of my favourite first appearance books.

 

My biggest gripe about all of this, however, is with those who drink a grading service's Kool-Aid, whether it's CGC, AFA, etc, and believe that manufacturing the concept of one-of-a-kind by giving it a number actually makes it so. So this is the only Action #1 at an 8.0. Its doesn't change the fact it's not the only Action #1. Every piece of art we discuss here is really, honestly and truly, a one-of-a-kind and, while maybe not as historically significant, still a unique collectible unto itself that only one person can own and enjoy. I'd rather that in my collection any day of the week.

 

No matter what way you paint it, chasing grades makes it far less about the collectible itself and strictly a commodity. Hypothetical question: do you think the guy's who bought these bought them for the comic, the grade, or the prestige of having the bragging rights of being the first guys to drop a cool mil on a comic? Because they sure could have had either comic for a lot less if it was just about the book.

 

 

[pinupcartoonguy]

I know nothing about how the CGC grading system works, but I do have a question. I was looking at a Heritage catalog today and notice a vintage comic with writing all over the cover, but it was still rated a 9.0. Do they have different standards depending on the age of the comic? I can't see a recent comic with writing on the cover being rated that high. If they have different standards for different vintages, then this whole thing is a contrived farce. A defaced comic is a defaced comic.

[clemso]

So with the sale of 8.0 Detective 27 at $1 mill +, That's $2 mill of coin this week circulated into the comic book hobby. That has to have an impact somewhere. I guess KK has a crystal ball after all, . Clem..

[Bronty]

I know nothing about how the CGC grading system works, but I do have a question. I was looking at a Heritage catalog today and notice a vintage comic with writing all over the cover, but it was still rated a 9.0. Do they have different standards depending on the age of the comic? I can't see a recent comic with writing on the cover being rated that high. If they have different standards for different vintages, then this whole thing is a contrived farce. A defaced comic is a defaced comic.

 

marvel 1? that's a whole other can of worms. if that's the one you're talking about the writing was the publisher's own pay notes for the artists and accordingly it seems the writing was given a bit of a pass

[tylerdurden-migration]

So with the sale of 8.0 Detective 27 at $1 mill +, That's $2 mill of coin this week circulated into the comic book hobby. That has to have an impact somewhere. I guess KK has a crystal ball after all, . Clem..

 

Who is this Krazy Kat everybody always speaks of ? He must have been some character

[comix4fun]

So with the sale of 8.0 Detective 27 at $1 mill +, That's $2 mill of coin this week circulated into the comic book hobby. That has to have an impact somewhere. I guess KK has a crystal ball after all, . Clem..

 

Who is this Krazy Kat everybody always speaks of ? He must have been some character

 

 

His is a character, to be sure. I always found it funny that no matter what his current incarnation was at the time, he could not help posting a reply to someone who said he "may have been right".

 

Usually he would do so while simultaneously quoting the section talking about him being right and follow it up with a question about himself in the third person.

 

You would have loved to meet him.

[Solar]

this might be the point in time that one can consider that a dedicated soul in the

middle class budget range can no longer own the finest comic book in existence

for batman and superman.

 

it seems to me i remember recalling joe average who was dedicated as all get out

could afford such comics if they really stretched for it. Think 100,000 by taking

a second mortgage or what have you a decade(s) ago. The cost of a second

house so to speak.

 

I may be missing your point, but you can certainly still get a respectible Detective 27 for well under 100K and maybe an Action 1 as well.

 

There's a really sweet extensively restored cgc 4.5 'tec 27 on metropolis right now for $46.5K. The average Joe has certainly been priced out of the highest grade unrestored copies, but that happened long, long before this week's events.

[clemso]

this might be the point in time that one can consider that a dedicated soul in the

middle class budget range can no longer own the finest comic book in existence

for batman and superman.

 

it seems to me i remember recalling joe average who was dedicated as all get out

could afford such comics if they really stretched for it. Think 100,000 by taking

a second mortgage or what have you a decade(s) ago. The cost of a second

house so to speak.

 

I may be missing your point, but you can certainly still get a respectible Detective 27 for well under 100K and maybe an Action 1 as well.

 

There's a really sweet extensively restored cgc 4.5 'tec 27 on metropolis right now for $46.5K. The average Joe has certainly been priced out of the highest grade unrestored copies, but that happened long, long before this week's events.

 

Well you are missing the point a bit, were talking some of the highest grade examples of each book outside of a private collection. Just like the best examples of an artists work can fetch more than above average market, its just the same for highest graded books. And they don't come more iconic than Action 1 and detective 27

 

[tylerdurden-migration]

this might be the point in time that one can consider that a dedicated soul in the

middle class budget range can no longer own the finest comic book in existence

for batman and superman.

 

it seems to me i remember recalling joe average who was dedicated as all get out

could afford such comics if they really stretched for it. Think 100,000 by taking

a second mortgage or what have you a decade(s) ago. The cost of a second

house so to speak.

 

I may be missing your point, but you can certainly still get a respectible Detective 27 for well under 100K and maybe an Action 1 as well.

 

There's a really sweet extensively restored cgc 4.5 'tec 27 on metropolis right now for $46.5K. The average Joe has certainly been priced out of the highest grade unrestored copies, but that happened long, long before this week's events.

 

Well you are missing the point a bit, were talking some of the highest grade examples of each book outside of a private collection. Just like the best examples of an artists work can fetch more than above average market, its just the same for highest graded books. And they don't come more iconic than Action 1 and detective 27

 

It makes one wonder how Amazing Fantasy 15 will price out in the future

 

I believe $300,000 is the high water mark for that book but I could be mistaken

 

Captain America # 1 seems to have fallen by the way side

 

Poor Cap

[bluechip]

I know nothing about how the CGC grading system works, but I do have a question. I was looking at a Heritage catalog today and notice a vintage comic with writing all over the cover, but it was still rated a 9.0. Do they have different standards depending on the age of the comic? I can't see a recent comic with writing on the cover being rated that high. If they have different standards for different vintages, then this whole thing is a contrived farce. A defaced comic is a defaced comic.

 

The grading philosophy is enormously weighted by the fact that some of the original founders of CGC bought high grade books and later found they had been restored. As a result, the grading policies lead to diminishment of any book that has repairs or markings that were done with what they feel was the intent to improve the book. So much so that they call books restored even when they are in low grade (or even poor), or even when their appearance was not improved and when the grade wasn't changed. In seeking to differentiate the intent behind markings (and perhaps to encourage people not to do resto), they apparently give a pass to some defacements they feel were made innocently or accidentally. Thus huge stamps and scribbles and date marks etc get a pass while a tiny mark that matches the color background is considered unacceptable. Thus damaging tape applied to a book is given a pass while removable archive tape is considered unacceptable. Thus a book with color touch on a corner is considered not as investment-worthy as a book with the same corner completely missing. It's led to people literally damaging books further to remove the "resto" that would earn the book a purple label for restored.

 

To understand this a bit better, just look at that Detective 27 which had writing on it that someone tried to erase with a pencil and, in the process, rubbed away some of the ink. If that book had been defaced in an equal or even far lesser way that was deemed as the intent to restore the book, it would have been hit with a purple label and deemed nearly worthless by comparison.

 

For various reasons (including the fact they personally may have been ripped off on a high grade book that was really a middle or low grade book) some people get really upset whenever restoration is mentioned and a person says anything other than that it's bad and shouldn't be done. So let it be understood I am not offering an opinion on it. Those are just the simple facts and it's important to know those facts when looking at the values of things. And if you buy with the intent of reselling at any point, you can factor in whether you think it will continue that way or whether the standards will change again, as they have in the past. Then make your decisions accordingly