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Whoops! Nick Simmons INCARNATE = Plagiarism.

Started by Mr 9.8,

74 posts in this topic

comix4fun

comix4fun

Posted
Posted

 

 

ff249-supes8L.jpg

 

 

 

You do realize these 2 were done by the same artist, right?

 

Artists doing stuff like this to their own work is not attempting to steal from themselves.

 

Are you sure about that? One cover was copyrighted by Marvel,and done under a work for hire agreement, so doesn't Marvel "own" the rights to that cover, not Bryne

Besides, Brynes "homage" to the Legion of SuperHeroes seems orse than anything I've seen out of Simmons.

 

 

Marvel owns the trademark to their characters, the artist hold the copyright to the image he created including elements of style, layout and design that he created that are independent of the subject matter presented.

 

So yeah. I am pretty sure.

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Jeffro.

Jeffro.

Posted
Posted
Ultimately I just want to remind everyone that KISS stinks and Gene Simmons and crew are shameless media whoors. This is not opinion it is fact. I am a creature of pure logic with no allegiances so there is no need to argue for if you step to this you best be wearing anti-disintergration technology.

 

I'll buy that :D

 

And he chose to 'swipe' Manga? :roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::P

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comix4fun

comix4fun

Posted
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I wish someone would Simmonize the Ditko Spider-man on ASM and stick with it for 100 or so issues...

 

That's been done. Ron Frenz, 80's, ASM

 

 

Are you of the Body, brother?

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mica

mica

Posted
Posted
I wish someone would Simmonize the Ditko Spider-man on ASM and stick with it for 100 or so issues...

 

That's been done. Ron Frenz, 80's, ASM

They should do that as well. :cloud9:
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Jeffro.

Jeffro.

Posted
Posted
I wish someone would Simmonize the Ditko Spider-man on ASM and stick with it for 100 or so issues...

 

That's been done. Ron Frenz, 80's, ASM

 

 

Are you of the Body, brother?

 

Peace and tranquility to you. Come for the festival ayuh?

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MedicAR

MedicAR

Posted
Posted

 

 

ff249-supes8L.jpg

 

 

 

You do realize these 2 were done by the same artist, right?

 

Artists doing stuff like this to their own work is not attempting to steal from themselves.

 

I actually did catch it....sort of. I screwed up the link on another couple of images and meant to pull this one in the process of fixing them and simply missed it.

:blush:

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BaltimoreLauren

BaltimoreLauren

Posted
Posted

2. All manga looks alike, so there are similarities everywhere once you begin to look.

 

 

Well, I must respectfully disagree.

 

2211362901_e777da9e71.jpg

85810641_f625771f89.jpg

 

That argument "it all looks the same" could apply to any comic, be it from Japan or America.

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MedicAR

MedicAR

Posted
Posted
Ok, first off, I'm not a fan of the book or Nick. So don't think I'm defending my "hero" or some such.

:eyeroll:

 

You can take your "Nick Simmons Rules" baseball cap off now.

 

:baiting:

 

I was thinking of changing my avatar....what do you think?

 

94095.jpg.6e29c31332a756ce247502356ad91884.jpg

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MedicAR

MedicAR

Posted
Posted

2. All manga looks alike, so there are similarities everywhere once you begin to look.

 

 

Well, I must respectfully disagree.

 

2211362901_e777da9e71.jpg

85810641_f625771f89.jpg

 

That argument "it all looks the same" could apply to any comic, be it from Japan or America.

 

No fair! lol

 

You didn't use my whole post. You used the same exception that I did!

 

Ok, first off, I'm not a fan of the book or Nick. So don't think I'm defending my "hero" or some such.

 

I'm not a fan of the manga style at all for one simple reason: it all looks just alike. There are exceptions, Akira comes to mind as being different and well done, but 99% of all manga looks just alike. From poses to characters to expressions and all those damned "speed lines," it all just makes me crazy. I think this is one of those "mountain out of a mole hill" cases that is just a blip on the radar. It won't amount to much for the following reasons.

 

1. Incarnate wasn't a giant hit to begin with.

2. All manga looks alike, so there are similarities everywhere once you begin to look.

3. Swiping has been going on in comics since comics came about. A few examples:

 

Yadda, yadda, yadda....

 

The vast majority looks like the first image you posted. Granted, I am not a fan of the style, but even looking at the different ads in Previews it all looks alike. Lone Wolf and Cub is another notable exception. Now, as to whether I could pick out Katsuhiro Otomo's or Goseki Kojima's work outside of those two books? I don't know. I like to think I could, but I seriously doubt it.

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MedicAR

MedicAR

Posted
Posted
Regardless if it has been done throughout the medium, the "swiping " of panels is still swiping of panels and should be met with disdain. You know what else has been done throughout history? Rape. I do love that someone paid enough attention to notice, and that the thief got caught. Who would have thought that someone would have picked up both those manga books and Incarnate?

 

Fantastic, one step closer to Godwin's Law. lol

 

I'm not judging whether it is the morally or ethically correct thing to do. I am saying it is a long standing practice and it has never been called plagiarism before. Where does one draw the line? A swipe of a pose? Can no one ever draw a character with his hands on hips hips again? A swipe of a panel? No one can ever draw a villain from worm's eye point of view and lightning in the background again? A swipe of a cover? No one can ever draw a hero smashing a car over his head again?

 

 

I don't know which artists you have spoken to, but all the artists I know are pretty damn pissed off when someone takes one of their images and does a line for line copy. The fact that these are funny books and not NYT Best Sellers is the ONLY reason you haven't heard more about this.

 

Also there is a distinct difference between an homage cover or reinterpretation where everyone (including the artist, fans and original artist) all know what the guy is going for (ala the McSpidey Action #1 style cover) and taking panels, images, photographs and basically lightboxing and tracing the image and calling it your own.

 

I am not talking about a similar pose a similar layout. I am not talking about painting or drawing using live models or photos as REFERENCE to make sure the anatomy works or the pose is natural. I am talking about stealing and lack of artistic integrity. You are lumping homages, reinterpretations, and something that looks similar along with straight up xeroxing. There's a big difference.

 

Simply put, if you can overlay one image over the other and they line up almost exactly you have someone copying another person's work which is plagiarism regardless if it goes back to cave drawings or started yesterday.

 

 

Tragically, I don't get to talk to artists much. I would love to have that opportunity.

 

I can understand them being angry, upset, outraged, furious or any other negative emotion being attached to swiping or tracing or whatever we're going to call it. What I am trying to say is it has never been such a big deal before that lawyers have gotten involved or publication has been put on hold or ceased. At least not that I am aware of, I may have just not picked up on any cases before.

There's another thread in this forum about Greg Land's technique (or lack thereof) and how everyone knows but doesn't seem to care. Mr. Land is doing much higher profile work than Nick Simmons, so why is there no legal action there?

 

I think the only reason anyone has paid attention to this story so far is that it's Gene Simmons' son, the exact same reason anyone picked up Incarnate in the first place.

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BaltimoreLauren

BaltimoreLauren

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I singled that out because thats really the whole point of your post (IMO). I think its ignorant to say that all manga looks the same. And again, that can be said for any American cartoon as well, it's not just Japan.

 

 

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BaltimoreLauren

BaltimoreLauren

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I singled that out because thats really the whole point of your post (IMO). I think its ignorant to say that all manga looks the same. And again, that can be said for any American cartoon as well, it's not just Japan.

 

 

+1 well said

 

We should really blame Betty Boop for the large eye thing. Tezuka was heavily influenced by her and many other American cartoons when he first started out!

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Mr 9.8

Mr 9.8

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I singled that out because thats really the whole point of your post (IMO). I think its ignorant to say that all manga looks the same. And again, that can be said for any American cartoon as well, it's not just Japan.

 

 

+1 well said

 

We should really blame Betty Boop for the large eye thing. Tezuka was heavily influenced by her and many other American cartoons when he first started out!

Mickey Mouse was one of the ''inspirations'' to.
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