Whoops! Nick Simmons INCARNATE = Plagiarism.

[Mr 9.8]

http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/2010/02/radical-halts-nick-simmons-incarnate-amid-claims-of-plagiarism/#more-36394

 

What the HELL was this kid thinking???

Did he really believe he would not get caught? And I wonder if his dad's ''reality'' show is going to cover this?

[MedicAR]

Lifting panels is as old as the medium. And there's only so many stories to be told about immortal interdimensional shoplifters, sooner or later they all start to look alike.

[DiceX]

There was a website a year or two ago that busted out one of the popular modern artists, showing pages that he had completely copied from other comics. The examples were shown on a forum and the artist actually came on and defended himself until example after example after example started surfacing. It was worse than anything I'd ever seen before. The guy was taking whole pages and copying them exactly. I wonder what ever happened to that whole mess.

 

Heck, I can't even remember who the artist was now. Just that he was one of the most popular modern artists.

 

 

[MedicAR]

Seriously, if those two panels shown are the best evidence, the other companies don't gave much to stand on. Swiping panels and covers started at the dawn of the medium. On the surface, this looks like trumped up tripe.

[Sal]

tease.

[DiceX]

I found some of it. The "artist" was David Mack

 

Link 1

Link 2

 

I can't find the one where David Mack tried to justify it. IIRC, it was deleted because it turned into something that rivaled a pressing thread. However, I did find one of Mack's quotes...

 

". . . About the reference to Adam Hughes, yeah, I owe him credit here too. When preparing for the look of this book, I wanted to really embrace the comic book look of things while keeping things looking realistic as well, and I'm a big fan of Adam's ability to do that, . . . and I was looking at a lot of his work, among others, as a kind of training wheels in considereing [sic] styles, and getting started on this issue. . . . This was one of the first pages that I drew in this issue, getting into the vibe for the series and you may be right that I referenced it too heavily. Sometimes when you are getting rolling on a project it takes a few pages to work the influences out of your system. So props to Adam, you have to give credit where credit is due. . . ."

 

Credit where credit is due...after getting his busted...

 

 

[BaltimoreLauren]

 

The color panels are Nick's "own".

[Tatterdamillion]

Regardless if it has been done throughout the medium, the "swiping " of panels is still swiping of panels and should be met with disdain. You know what else has been done throughout history? Rape. I do love that someone paid enough attention to notice, and that the thief got caught. Who would have thought that someone would have picked up both those manga books and Incarnate?

 

Ultimately I just want to remind everyone that KISS stinks and Gene Simmons and crew are shameless media whoors. This is not opinion it is fact. I am a creature of pure logic with no allegiances so there is no need to argue for if you step to this you best be wearing anti-disintergration technology.

[sckao]

Seriously, if those two panels shown are the best evidence, the other companies don't gave much to stand on. Swiping panels and covers started at the dawn of the medium. On the surface, this looks like trumped up tripe.

 

http://community.livejournal.com/bleachness/446299.html

[seanfingh]

Regardless if it has been done throughout the medium, the "swiping " of panels is still swiping of panels and should be met with disdain. You know what else has been done throughout history? Rape. I do love that someone paid enough attention to notice, and that the thief got caught. Who would have thought that someone would have picked up both those manga books and Incarnate?

 

Ultimately I just want to remind everyone that KISS stinks and Gene Simmons and crew are shameless media whoors. This is not opinion it is fact. I am a creature of pure logic with no allegiances so there is no need to argue for if you step to this you best be wearing anti-disintergration technology.

 

This post is frickin' awesome, but so is KISS, so there is probably going to be some type of cataclysmic matter-anti-matter explosion . . .

[Tatterdamillion]

Regardless if it has been done throughout the medium, the "swiping " of panels is still swiping of panels and should be met with disdain. You know what else has been done throughout history? Rape. I do love that someone paid enough attention to notice, and that the thief got caught. Who would have thought that someone would have picked up both those manga books and Incarnate?

 

Ultimately I just want to remind everyone that KISS stinks and Gene Simmons and crew are shameless media whoors. This is not opinion it is fact. I am a creature of pure logic with no allegiances so there is no need to argue for if you step to this you best be wearing anti-disintergration technology.

 

This post is frickin' awesome, but so is KISS, so there is probably going to be some type of cataclysmic matter-anti-matter explosion . . .

I'm about to press a big red button,...dispassionately.

[MedicAR]

Ok, first off, I'm not a fan of the book or Nick. So don't think I'm defending my "hero" or some such.

 

I'm not a fan of the manga style at all for one simple reason: it all looks just alike. There are exceptions, Akira comes to mind as being different and well done, but 99% of all manga looks just alike. From poses to characters to expressions and all those damned "speed lines," it all just makes me crazy. I think this is one of those "mountain out of a mole hill" cases that is just a blip on the radar. It won't amount to much for the following reasons.

 

1. Incarnate wasn't a giant hit to begin with.

2. All manga looks alike, so there are similarities everywhere once you begin to look.

3. Swiping has been going on in comics since comics came about. A few examples:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MedicAR]

Regardless if it has been done throughout the medium, the "swiping " of panels is still swiping of panels and should be met with disdain. You know what else has been done throughout history? Rape. I do love that someone paid enough attention to notice, and that the thief got caught. Who would have thought that someone would have picked up both those manga books and Incarnate?

 

Fantastic, one step closer to Godwin's Law.

 

I'm not judging whether it is the morally or ethically correct thing to do. I am saying it is a long standing practice and it has never been called plagiarism before. Where does one draw the line? A swipe of a pose? Can no one ever draw a character with his hands on hips hips again? A swipe of a panel? No one can ever draw a villain from worm's eye point of view and lightning in the background again? A swipe of a cover? No one can ever draw a hero smashing a car over his head again?

[TheWatcher]

Back in the day, artists used to keep files of reference material to use when they saw fit. Case in point, Kirby's cover for Foxhole #1 was swiped from a painting by Joseph Hirsch called “High Visibility Wrap”

 

[Bosco685]

Ok, first off, I'm not a fan of the book or Nick. So don't think I'm defending my "hero" or some such.

 

You can take your "Nick Simmons Rules" baseball cap off now.

 

[comix4fun]

 

 

 

 

 

You do realize these 2 were done by the same artist, right?

 

Artists doing stuff like this to their own work is not attempting to steal from themselves.

[Bosco685]

 

 

 

You do realize these 2 were done by the same artist, right?

 

Artists doing stuff like this to their own work is not attempting to steal from themselves.

 

Byrne is going to owe Byrne some serious cash when he finds out about this.

 

[comix4fun]

Regardless if it has been done throughout the medium, the "swiping " of panels is still swiping of panels and should be met with disdain. You know what else has been done throughout history? Rape. I do love that someone paid enough attention to notice, and that the thief got caught. Who would have thought that someone would have picked up both those manga books and Incarnate?

 

Fantastic, one step closer to Godwin's Law.

 

I'm not judging whether it is the morally or ethically correct thing to do. I am saying it is a long standing practice and it has never been called plagiarism before. Where does one draw the line? A swipe of a pose? Can no one ever draw a character with his hands on hips hips again? A swipe of a panel? No one can ever draw a villain from worm's eye point of view and lightning in the background again? A swipe of a cover? No one can ever draw a hero smashing a car over his head again?

 

 

I don't know which artists you have spoken to, but all the artists I know are pretty damn pissed off when someone takes one of their images and does a line for line copy. The fact that these are funny books and not NYT Best Sellers is the ONLY reason you haven't heard more about this.

 

Also there is a distinct difference between an homage cover or reinterpretation where everyone (including the artist, fans and original artist) all know what the guy is going for (ala the McSpidey Action #1 style cover) and taking panels, images, photographs and basically lightboxing and tracing the image and calling it your own.

 

I am not talking about a similar pose a similar layout. I am not talking about painting or drawing using live models or photos as REFERENCE to make sure the anatomy works or the pose is natural. I am talking about stealing and lack of artistic integrity. You are lumping homages, reinterpretations, and something that looks similar along with straight up xeroxing. There's a big difference.

 

Simply put, if you can overlay one image over the other and they line up almost exactly you have someone copying another person's work which is plagiarism regardless if it goes back to cave drawings or started yesterday.

 

 

[shadroch]

 

 

 

 

 

You do realize these 2 were done by the same artist, right?

 

Artists doing stuff like this to their own work is not attempting to steal from themselves.

 

Are you sure about that? One cover was copyrighted by Marvel,and done under a work for hire agreement, so doesn't Marvel "own" the rights to that cover, not Bryne

Besides, Brynes "homage" to the Legion of SuperHeroes seems orse than anything I've seen out of Simmons.

[Fedoraman]

I wish someone would Simmonize the Ditko Spider-man on ASM and stick with it for 100 or so issues...