tear on the cover and affect on grade 0

[dover]

Hey,

 

What is the affect of a tear on the grade of a book? i am looking at buying two books and they each have a tear, maybe 1/2" long going to the edge of the cover. No parts missing and the tear is not pronounced or bad looking.

 

if a book is 9.0, what does a tear do to the grade?

 

Thanks,

 

 

[KryptoSpidey]

Hey,

 

What is the affect of a tear on the grade of a book? i am looking at buying two books and they each have a tear, maybe 1/2" long going to the edge of the cover. No parts missing and the tear is not pronounced or bad looking.

 

if a book is 9.0, what does a tear do to the grade?

 

Thanks,

 

 

throw a scan up to show...

it would depend on how clean a tear to some degree..1/2" tho on a 9.0 id say would be about a 7.5

[divad]

Hey,

 

What is the affect of a tear on the grade of a book? i am looking at buying two books and they each have a tear, maybe 1/2" long going to the edge of the cover. No parts missing and the tear is not pronounced or bad looking.

 

if a book is 9.0, what does a tear do to the grade?

 

Thanks,

 

 

 

Kills it.

[fantastic_four]

My guess is that it'd drop it to an 8.0 or 8.5. I have a somewhat similar example here--an FF #4 that I'd grade as an easy 9.4 that has a 1/2" tear (some people refer to these as "pre-chips") on the right edge next to the Thing's knee:

 

[KryptoSpidey]

..like i said previously,need to see the book in question... an otherwise 9.4 dropped to a 8.5 with "pre chipping" would grade different than a 9.0 with a straight up "tear"...OP needs to post a scan of the book.

cgc does not hit marvel "pre-chipping" as hard from my past experiences.

[divad]

"Pre-chipping" is held in the light of production defects. Not a good example. He's described the tear as "1/2" long going to the edge of the cover".

[joeypost]

Hey,

 

What is the affect of a tear on the grade of a book? i am looking at buying two books and they each have a tear, maybe 1/2" long going to the edge of the cover. No parts missing and the tear is not pronounced or bad looking.

 

if a book is 9.0, what does a tear do to the grade?

 

Thanks,

 

 

 

Mike,

 

In my experience it can lower a book a full grade or more depending on the location of the tear and if it is a clean tear (more of a slice than a rip). I had an otherwise NM- Godzilla #1 PV a few years ago. Had a small 1/4 in tear next to the logo on the FC. Came back an 8.0

[VintageComics]

Hey,

 

What is the affect of a tear on the grade of a book? i am looking at buying two books and they each have a tear, maybe 1/2" long going to the edge of the cover. No parts missing and the tear is not pronounced or bad looking.

 

if a book is 9.0, what does a tear do to the grade?

 

Thanks,

 

 

 

7.5

[VintageComics]

My guess is that it'd drop it to an 8.0 or 8.5. I have a somewhat similar example here--an FF #4 that I'd grade as an easy 9.4 that has a 1/2" tear (some people refer to these as "pre-chips") on the right edge next to the Thing's knee:

 

 

All depends on how much the eye appeal is affected methinks.

 

If there was less color loss it might even grade higher.

 

 

[fantastic_four]

..like i said previously,need to see the book in question... an otherwise 9.4 dropped to a 8.5 with "pre chipping" would grade different than a 9.0 with a straight up "tear"...OP needs to post a scan of the book.

cgc does not hit marvel "pre-chipping" as hard from my past experiences.

 

Once you get below 9.0 that 1/2" tear doesn't matter as much though, it's a defect severity that's more allowable in the grade, which is why my call is 8.0 or 8.5.

 

Another similar example I've seen but don't have a scan of is the Northland Fantastic Four #1. It's an 8.0 that has a piece that's barely still hanging on located midway up the right edge...the piece looks like somebody's thumb ripped it off. It's a semicircle that's about the size of half of a person's thumbnail and it raggedly torn along about 3/4 of the semicircle for a total tear length of somewhere between 1/2" to 3/4" of an inch. I saw the book in person and looked at it at length because I had never seen an 8.0 or higher book with that large and noticable a tear before. Other than that hanging piece, the book looked to be 9.0 or higher. The tear reminded me of the 8.5 FF #4 I posted a scan of above only longer and much more noticable.

[fantastic_four]

"Pre-chipping" is held in the light of production defects. Not a good example. He's described the tear as "1/2" long going to the edge of the cover".

 

How is the tear on that FF #4 not 1/2" long and going to the edge of the cover? That's EXACTLY what it's doing.

 

I also offer up this FF #4 as an example of a book where CGC absolutely hammered it due to chipping. However, I agree with you that I've also seen books where they clearly forgave the grade due to manufacturing-caused chipping. This FF #4 was graded very early in CGC's life, sometime in 2000, and they may not have been differentiating manufacturing tears from handling tears at that point, and if that's the case, then it's a decent example. If we presume that they forgave the tear on the FF #4 since it's a manufacturing defect, then we'd also have to presume that it would fall even farther if it were a handling tear, but when I later saw the Northland FF #1 I described in my previous post and saw they'd allow a 3/4" jagged tear at the 8.0 level, it led me to believe my 8.5 got hammered specifically due to the tear.

[fantastic_four]

Here's the worst book I've seen at the 8.0 level or above with pre-Marvel tearing...if this book can get an 8.0, an otherwise-9.0 with a 1/2" handling tear deserves it as well. This AF15 doesn't deserve the break it got!

 

Amazing Fantasy 15 CGC 8.0 with multiple lengthy pre-Marvel tears down the right side

 

I can't say enough how much I hate giving defects breaks because they were caused during manufacturing. A defect is a defect is a defect...however it got caused, they all look just as bad!

[joeypost]

My guess is that it'd drop it to an 8.0 or 8.5. I have a somewhat similar example here--an FF #4 that I'd grade as an easy 9.4 that has a 1/2" tear (some people refer to these as "pre-chips") on the right edge next to the Thing's knee:

 

 

Is the bottom staple discolored?

[fantastic_four]

Is the bottom staple discolored?

 

Yes, I believe it is. Given that I've seen 9.2s with both staples rusted, I presumed this was just allowable at this grade level, but it could definitely disqualify it for the 9.4 I alluded to earlier. I rarely see books with only one discolored staple...not sure what kind of storage would even cause that.

[divad]

Here's the worst book I've seen at the 8.0 level or above with pre-Marvel tearing...if this book can get an 8.0, an otherwise-9.0 with a 1/2" handling tear deserves it as well. This AF15 doesn't deserve the break it got!

 

I can't say enough how much I hate giving defects breaks because they were caused during manufacturing. A defect is a defect is a defect...however it got caused, they all look just as bad!

 

I agree with you completely, but the fact is that high-dollar books and production defects get treated less critically. I'm not saying it's correct, just making the observation.

[dover]

here is one of the books in question:

 

 

and I don't think it is a 9.0, I just had to start with a reference of grade. I do want to buy it, slightly pricey for the tear.....

[fantastic_four]

I agree with you completely, but the fact is that high-dollar books and production defects get treated less critically. I'm not saying it's correct, just making the observation.

 

Which grades have you seen that led to that observation? I've heard that hypothesis since CGC started but haven't been able to find enough high-dollar overgrades over the years to correlate it. It's possible that we just notice overgrades on high-dollar books more because we look at and remember them longer.

[fantastic_four]

and I don't think it is a 9.0, I just had to start with a reference of grade. I do want to buy it, slightly pricey for the tear.....

 

What makes you say it isn't a 9.0 without the tear? It looks as if it could go as high as 9.2 without it, unless I'm missing some defects. All I can see so far is three very slight 1/32" color-breaking spine stresses and a fourth spine stress near the bottom that's slightly more significant at 1/8", all of that is 9.2 material. The edges and corners are exceptionate on that copy!

 

I'd say it's somewhere between the 7.5 minimum and 8.5 maximum you've heard people put forth in the thread...8.0 seems viable to me, and 8.5 still wouldn't surprise me given what's visible in the scan.

[joeypost]

Is the bottom staple discolored?

 

Yes, I believe it is. Given that I've seen 9.2s with both staples rusted, I presumed this was just allowable at this grade level, but it could definitely disqualify it for the 9.4 I alluded to earlier. I rarely see books with only one discolored staple...not sure what kind of storage would even cause that.

 

I would imagine that impacted the grade more than the pre-marvel chipping.

[fantastic_four]

Is the bottom staple discolored?

 

Yes, I believe it is. Given that I've seen 9.2s with both staples rusted, I presumed this was just allowable at this grade level, but it could definitely disqualify it for the 9.4 I alluded to earlier. I rarely see books with only one discolored staple...not sure what kind of storage would even cause that.

 

I would imagine that impacted the grade more than the pre-marvel chipping.

 

Disagree due to what I stated in the post you just responded to. I personally own a White Mountain book with two rusted staples that also has migration to the paper around the staples that looks like a 9.4 but is assigned a 9.0 grade, and as I said, I've seen books with two rusted staples get a 9.2. If I can find a scan example, I'll post it.