Slabbed books VS. Raw

[Darthdiesel]

Go to any large show. Count the number of CGC graded books there. You tell me which dealer is catering to slabbed books.

 

Last I checked at the Baltimore Con and the Tyson's show there was plenty of plastic on those display stands... at least for the older books. Koops has a few, your dealer Cards comics and collectibles has some, blazing and monumental had quite a few....

 

Dealers will slab their better copies before selling them raw. Not catering to slabbed books per se, but I guess that dealers realize the big price difference in sales of a raw book (in NM or higher, maybe VF for keys) vs a slabbed copy of said book in same condition.

[COI]

Most of the stuff I buy is before 1968. Since the summer, I decided I will no longer buy CGC graded silver unless it's in the 9.4 or higher range, however I will buy up raw books as low as VF+.

 

With a few exceptions, ebay is definetly not the place for raw books. I purchase VF/NM's and I get FN/VF.

 

Is Showcase really that bad? They seem to get a lot of repeat business.

[Darthdiesel]

OK - just rereading my post I see how vague I have been so let me try again:

 

Off topic to donut: We had about 4 inches? didn't seem bad at all here. I just didn't really check and see. Walk is shoveled and cars are cleaned off.

 

On topic to Andrew:If I am a dealer and I had 2 copies of ASM 121 in VF and NM+, I would pick out my NM+ and get graded, and sell my VF raw. Because IMO, I would get that much more money if I sold them 3 months later at a 9.6, than if I sold my NM+ raw now. I probably won't get any much higher than I would for the VF copy. If that makes sense, barring any dire need to have cash in hand, why would any dealer, online or show, not CGC their books?

 

I understand it's not all about the money but when there is a couple of grand at stake, hmmm...I'd ponder it a while, before I sell that NM+ copy raw to someone that like me who WILL flip it for 10x what you sold it for raw. I personally have a reading copy in VG of ASM 122 for my collection and am totally happy with it. I get anywhere a raw NM, you know for sure I will have it up on eBay in 3 months time, slabbed and hyped to the core...

[Joanna]

I'm selling almost everything I have raw because I can't afford to tie up any money in CGC grading, and then waiting a couple of months for them to get back to me. I know I get a lot less for my books, but I have to pay my bills right now. That and the fact that CGC isn't a guarantee of multiples of guide.

 

Let's say I paid $2 for a book 10 years ago and can sell it now for $20.

Or I can pay $20+postage both ways to get it slabbed, wait two months and sell it for $40. I made more on the raw book in this scenario.

 

Granted, if I had a potential 9.6 key sitting around that was getting 10x guide, I wouldn't be a fool, but I'm primarily dealing with raw DC silver and bronze commons. CGC is no guarantee that a DC will sell for big money.

 

-- Joanna

[Darthdiesel]

Granted, if I had a potential 9.6 key sitting around that was getting 10x guide, I wouldn't be a fool

 

This was the exact point I was trying to make with my vagaries. I own plenty copies of Silver Marvel (Fair - good plus, at best) that I would never slab. as the cost of grading would be more than the book is worth. And I love rereading them.

 

Same goes for your DCs in lower grade - if you could get that much for them vs. what you "invested" 20 years ago, then kudos for you. I wish I could do as well in the ungraded raw market with my older DC copies, because I don't read them. But what about high grades? At least I think that's what Andrew was asking about and I was pathetically responding to...

[COI]

"If I am a dealer and I had 2 copies of ASM 121 in VF and NM+, I would pick out my NM+ and get graded, and sell my VF raw. "

 

I agree, first of all because of the significance of the book, and also because of the grade. I would never sell an ASM #121 in NM+9.6 raw, that's just crazy.

 

But what if you had a #121 in 9.0? Personally, I would keep it available unslabbed.

 

But if you're book is obviously high grade, there are many cases where you could get multiples of guide, just as if it were slabbed.

 

Notch Top(hope you don't mind me using your book as an example ) sold an incredible unslabbed NM copy of ASM #26 for about 2.5K

 

The doc is another example. I will not speculate on his practices, but his books sell consistently over guide without fail. There is definetly a niche to be had in the unslabbed market.

[Joanna]

Well, I've sold lots of low-mid grades, but I've sold high grades as well. Books I can't see a single flaw on. Someone on this board bought a Brave and Bold from me that he is going to send to CGC, certain it's going to be a 9.4 and I'm guessing he's right. The price he bought it for was very low, so he got a great bargain simply because I can't afford CGC. It was a semi-key, in that it was the first new costume for Green Arrow, and was a great Neal Adams cover. I was hoping I'd get more than the minimum bid, of course, but I didn't. I guess no one else trusted my description of it. Luckily, the board member who bought is a great guy, and I'm happy he's the one who got it.

 

Bottom line, Darth, it takes capital to CGC something. If you don't have money to tie up in grading, you sell raw. And by selling raw, you never get the huge bucks needed to CGC stuff. Vicious circle.

 

-- Joanna

[Darthdiesel]

Notch Top sold an incredible unslabbed NM copy of ASM #26 for about 2.5K

 

The doc is another example. I will not speculate on his practices, but his books sell consistently over guide without fail. There is definetly a niche to be had in the unslabbed market.

 

 

Good examples you bring up, but even you put disclaimers in there. These are two of this board's members who's practices/ethics have come into question before. I have dealt with neither one and nor pass judgement on either seller. So these particular examples as sellers who consistently sell over guide are controversial, to say the least. Ever wonder what Notch could have made on that book slabbed?

 

Try two other examples - Showcase, BlazingBob, Harley yee - do they consistently get over NM guide for raw books? do they even sell hi grade (NM and up) raw books?

[COI]

Notch Top has proven to me to be a stand up guy. I simply used his book as an example of an un-graded sale, totally unrelated to the Doc.

 

IMO the Doc is controversial in respect to his methods, yet no one has any concrete proof.

 

Even still, I would not compare the 2 of them.

 

Whatever trouble Matt had with any board member or any incident in the past holds no water with me. I've been speaking with him for the better part of this year, and have no problem with dealing with him on big $$$$ items. In my book he's a stand up guy, and a direct comparison between him and the doc is something I would never do. Matt's never given me a reason to doubt him, but the doc has.

 

If anyone here has doubts about Matt, it's your loss.

 

As for the doc, say whatever you want, but he's got high feedback and gets bids. Obviously there are people out there buying his stuff, therefor he has to be somewhat legit.

[COI]

I would not even have brought up Matt, if I thought this garbage would come up.

 

He's among the best guys I know related to this hobby, and I get tired of hearing about him. Keep the garbage off of these posts.

[Darthdiesel]

 

Once again for the record: I have dealt with neither one and nor pass judgement on either seller - Doc or Matt.

 

Take these two out of the equation. Do you see any other dealer of high grade (NM and up) unrestored raw books consistently selling higher than NM guide?

[COI]

Marnin R, as far as I can tell. He seems to do rather well in the super high grade raw market.

[notch_top]

Thanks Andrew.

 

 

In Darth's "defense" I will say that the bend you over and grab your ankles money generally does come with CGC graded material.

 

I do and have on occasion sold some ultra high grade books unslabbed on Ebay.

Why not sell it slabbed and make more money you ask?

 

Well sometimes time is an issue, I need the money quickly and CGC's grading times are delayed at the time.

Most of the time it is the simple factor that I don't have a tremendous amount of cash into the issue and can in fact pass that onto the buyer setting my reserve at what I think is fair.

Or in the case of the ASM 26 for $2500 I thought the book was a borderline 9.6 but guaranteed a 9.4. So $2500 is MORE than acceptable for me on a 9.4.

 

 

Sounds crazy eh?

 

 

Comparatively I sold another ASM 26 CGC 9.6 on Ebay for $6000 with nowhere near the same structure as the beauty Richard bought.

 

There are MANY high grade collectors out there that still buy raw books guys, believe it or not. And with the imperfect CGC holder, my mylar is looking pretty damn good to me at times. The RESTO check is something else altogether however and you cannot beat the price for that!

 

 

If a high grade hard to find book was sold to you Guaranteed to have the same CGC grade and to be resto free or ALL your money back would you pay the same price for it raw? Don't you ever feel the need to look through your high grade gems and see the books inner beauty as well. Or you just about the good looks on the outside

 

Nothing like the feel of a glossy , white page beauty, sliding in your hands, smelling so fresh..uhhhhhhh....ahem!

 

I'll be right back......

 

 

Try two other examples - Showcase, BlazingBob, Harley yee - do they consistently get over NM guide for raw books? do they even sell hi grade (NM and up) raw books?

 

Darth ..You going to SAN DIEGO this year? Swing by Bob and Harley's booths and see for yourself.Both certainly sell alot of raw high grade at high realized prices, with their consistent grading and reputation. Why not?

 

 

 

 

M

 

[COI]

Exactly.

 

If a guy selling me a book gave me a guarantee in regards to restoration, and acuracy within 1 grading point, I would not hesitate.

 

Consider that perhaps it's good for the hobby to have some un-graded high grade stuff running around, even strictly as a collector. It's an issue of having options, and I would definetly be a repeat customer to those who give me that choice.

[COI]

"Nothing like the feel of a glossy , white page beauty, sliding in your hands, smelling so fresh..uhhhhhhh.... "

 

. I wouldn't go THAT far, but there's definetly something to be said for being able to handle high grade books.

[PovertyRow]

Assuming you were buying for your collection, what would you prefer: paying 2X guide for a raw copy of a book from a reputable source, or paying 3X guide for a CGC graded copy in the same condition?

 

I'd pay the 2X only if it is a book I need I have not been able to find elsewhere. But 3X would be too much because I would end up unslabbing it so I can read the darn thing. And I wouldn't pay 3X for an unslabbed. I'd just keep looking in that case.

[murph0]

I don't know I'd feel so secure with a 1 point grading thing. I mean if he's off, it's not that great a deal..you're out the money you spent to grade plus the shipping plus in the time it takes to get the book graded and back, you probably could've done something else. I will only buy a raw book on eBay if..I can get nice res scans and the corners aren't fuzzy..the seller seems knowledgable..and the price is right

 

Brian

[notch_top]

What about a seller that guarantees the same grade from CGC or your grading and shipping fees back?

[COI]

Understandable. But the 1 point grading thing is a realistic expectation. Grading is not an exact science. I've found CGC to be fairly acurate, but it is not and cannot be a perfect system, because grading is subjective and is done with human eyes.

 

And even if CGC was technically perfect, the individual isn't, so they may still disagree.

 

 

[murph0]

Grading fees would certainly suffice. Shipping is no big deal, the problem is the grading fee. It would certainly make me feel more comfortable about the book if the seller was going that extra mile. Usually when you see these grade guarantees it seems more like they're overgrading a bit so they can get a nice CGC grade book back or just keep the cash, imo.

 

Brian