Slabbed books VS. Raw

[COI]

I wanted to get opinions on the topic of buying raw books vs. buying slabbed. We all obviously know the advantages of spending money on slabbed books, restoration, grading, etc... but for the sake of this question put those things aside.

 

Assuming you were buying for your collection, what would you prefer: paying 2X guide for a raw copy of a book from a reputable source, or paying 3X guide for a CGC graded copy in the same condition?

 

Are there lots of high grade collectors who still insist on un-slabbed books?

Sellers like showcase-new-england seem to bring out high grade buyers who don't bid much on graded books. Are these guys trying to submit to make a buck, or are there still collectors who prefer their books unslabbed.

 

Does anyone else feel that the price difference in price between high grade raw books(from a reputable source) and their graded counterparts will begin to narrow as raw books dry up, and more graded copies hit the market?

 

 

 

 

[comicinvestor-migration]

Personally, I wouldn't pay anywhere near the CGC price for a NM comic from any "reputable source". I find it's just not worth it in the long run, as raw prices are out of whack due ot the scuzzies who still think they can pay 2-3X NM Guide for raw, CGC the book and make a profit flipping it.

 

I usually see those same guys a few months later with out-of-whack starting bids on their CGC 8.5-9.0 comics. It's truly sad.

 

I'm no big fan of CGC, but when you buy a CGC 9.6 copy (that also looks nice), you're pretty well assured of a beautiful comic that only the anal would think of upgrading. For a collector looking for a NM run, paying a premium for that comic actually saves you money, and frees up some NM books for sale or CGC submission.

[Darthdiesel]

Assuming you were buying for your collection, what would you prefer: paying 2X guide for a raw copy of a book from a reputable source, or paying 3X guide for a CGC graded copy in the same condition?

 

3x guide for CGC graded copy for my collection - don't trust any dealers grading enough to match CGC's; if I was interested in reselling, then I'd go with the cheaper book, get it slabbed and resell at 4x guide

 

Are there lots of high grade collectors who still insist on un-slabbed books?

Sellers like showcase-new-england seem to bring out high grade buyers who don't bid much on graded books. Are these guys trying to submit to make a buck, or are there still collectors who prefer their books unslabbed.

 

Possible that specs are there to buy up raw, grade then flip. There are some eccentric collectors that want nothing to do with CGC books...I can't fathom why...but they are a dying breed because any dealer will realize that smart money will gravitate towards getting a slabbed book sale vs raw sale and cater to that clientele instead. Leave these "pure raw" collectors at the mercy of the hijinks of Doctor Cut-Ups and unethical restorer for profit-types who push out their "hi-grade" raw copies - raw because they would never pass the CGC resto check...

 

Does anyone else feel that the price difference in price between high grade raw books(from a reputable source) and their graded counterparts will begin to narrow as raw books dry up, and more graded copies hit the market?

 

Yes - if more higrade copies of a particular issue are available then price will inevitably go down, unless there is some spot event that would cause demand to increase several fold "ie. movie hype on certain character, villain cameo - Venom in USM 33 out next month boys + and with the softer glossy covers +hard to find in highgrade in my opinion + almost 10 years since venom appeared in a comic = $$$$"

 

[Darthdiesel]

Call me Super Scuzz!

[blowout]

sorry Andrew, this is off topic

 

"Venom in USM 33 out next month boys + and with the softer glossy covers "

 

what do you think of the new glossy covers darth? i thought they were super filmsy and just too glossy (made them look cheap/tacky) would rather marvel just went with the regular cover paper if they won't stick with card-stock.

[read_em-migration]

"There are some eccentric collectors that want nothing to do with CGC books...I can't fathom why...but they are a dying breed..."

 

Pure Darth logic! Such a warped view of comic collecting

[Darthdiesel]

reminded me of the FCBD quality books...I like cardstock, but I believe they couldn't print enough without the roller pinch and staple bumps on them to keep retailers from complaining because all their clientele won't buy the flawed copies and go through their stock cherry picking potential 9.6 plus copies..and hoarding them.

[murph0]

I would have to agree that I think the majority of the books that are regularly traded on eBay will be CGC graded. The only way this could not happen is for prices to come down enough that it doesn't make sense for sellers to CGC before selling, or someone unleashes a nice raw collection.

I would love to buy raw books, but I can never find good stuff. I'm very specific about who I'll buy from and looking at the scans. Usually if I don't think it's a NM, I'll pass..and that's what happens in about 80 percent of the current raw stuff on eBay.

 

Brian

[Darthdiesel]

Sorry new user - not really a view of comic collecting but more my take/opinion of what is occurring out there. All dealers want to make money. Why would they sell their true hi grade raw when they know they can triple/quadruple their money by getting it slabbed and getting an "official" grade.

 

Dying breed refers to where this constituency will turn once dealers all decide not to sell tru high grades anymore. These collectors that don't want CGC'd books and expect high grade at guide or 2x guide are SOL soon. Warped, maybe but that's just how I look at it. I welcome a differing viewpoint always

[COI]

" because any dealer will realize that smart money will gravitate towards getting a slabbed book sale vs raw sale and cater to that clientele instead. "

 

I agree with this when talking about anything above NM, but I think there is a healthy collector's market for raw VF+-NM-(8.5-9.2) range. I've got tons of raw silver in this range that I don't plan on sending to CGC. The reason is, there's a need for these books that will be harder and harder to fill as time goes on. Running a successful business is not always about maximum profit per sale. Showcase sells a lot of high grade raw, and as a result has amassed a huge customer base which ultimatly leads to bigger sales down the road By providing a range of raw books in high grade(not super high 9.6-9.8, you got to make a killing once in awhile ) you can drastically increase your customer base.

 

 

 

 

[Rickdogg]

I prefer my women raw...oops read it wrong

 

[FlyingDonut]

any dealer will realize that smart money will gravitate towards getting a slabbed book sale vs raw sale and cater to that clientele instead

 

Inaccurate!

 

Go to any large show. Count the number of CGC graded books there. You tell me which dealer is catering to slabbed books.

 

profit-types who push out their "hi-grade" raw copies - raw because they would never pass the CGC resto check...

 

Speaking from the "profit-type" - I push "hi-grade" raw copies that will definitely pass the CGC resto check because making 100% on a book in a week is a lot better to ME than making 200% in 3 months. Give me my profit now, boys.

 

And, please tell me who is paying 2X NM Guide for an unslabbed book? Please, point them to me.

[Darthdiesel]

healthy collector's market for raw VF+-NM-(8.5-9.2) range

 

Thanks Andrew for reminding me there is another collector market outside of Modern...ergo my past comments

 

I keep thinking that most folks will be chasing 9.4 and up. But that is only exclusively true for Moderns (even 9.6 and up)

 

It also depends on supply on hand. Maybe Showcase has a ton of these books from collection buys or warehouse finds and they just cherry pick the best couple of copies for slabbing and sell off the "chaff" to pay for their business costs. Oone dealer's "junk" is another non-deep pocketed collectors' hi-grade.

 

Also from some of the comments on this board, Showcase New Englands "high grade" would include what most here would consider FN. I hear they rival Mile High for the title of "worst overgrading comic retailer".

[aardvark88]

The cgc hi-grade mkt multiples r UNstable. Retailers or hi-end convention dealers would love the opportunity to get 100%, 150% or 200% of nm Ostreet for their RAW 1968 & up bks. Dealers will generally NOT send in 100 bks for slabbing if they only have $2 or less invested in the initial cost of those bks b/c they bought a long box or more at a time.

[COI]

I'm willing to pay 2X guide for certain unslabbed books if I'm convinced they're in the grade I'm looking for, and not because I want to submit them either.

[FlyingDonut]

Which books! I'll find them for you shortly!

[Darthdiesel]

Misquoted me out of context, Donut :

 

read again:

"Leave these "pure raw" collectors at the mercy of the hijinks of Doctor Cut-Ups and unethical restorer for profit-types who push out their "hi-grade" raw copies - raw because they would never pass the CGC resto check... "

 

 

Now I never would lump you in with the "UNETHICAL RESTORER FOR PROFIT-TYPES" and "HI-GRADE" was in quotes because I meant they were "MADE" to appear hi-grade either by shaving edges ot color touching.. unless you've picked up a nasty habit since we last saw each other

[murph0]

The benefit is that at conventions you don't have to judge a seller's accuracy based on a tiny tiny scan from a scanner the usually can't even pick up many of the minor defects common on comics

 

Brian

[FlyingDonut]

Damn! I'll have to put away my X-Acto knife on Sunday! I would have gotten away with it too, if it wasn't for you meddling kids!

 

How much snow did you get? We got about 8" (or a rickdogg foot, but that's a different story...).

[COI]

Books that are damned near impossible to find ungraded, because they've already been submitted and sold for 5X guide.

 

Stuff like the docs books without the surgery.