CGC 9.2 with holes? just skip the piss match

[PovertyRow]

At least with the qualified label, you can get a better feel for the overall quality of the book, and you're told of the defect. The buyer is now duly informed.

 

I fear I must concur with this.

[Rickdogg]

"You left something important out of your philosophical argument. Add "Universal blue label" to both statements, and yes, the second one is invalid. But put Universal blue label on the first one, and Qualified Green Label on the second one, and you have two different categories of books. The varying CGC labels makes them not identical. The grade is the same, but the label isn't and that makes all the difference in the world."

 

I see what you are saying, but that is what we are arguing. A book with 3 holes should have never received the green top 9.2 in the first place. I first stated both arguments to first discredit the NM- grade assigned which is ludicrous. Since we agree on the grade not being a true NM, lets move onto the label color.

 

IMO green labels shouldn't be used for these types of books to begin with. A flaw is a flaw, whether it be a date stamp, spine stress, crease, or a big hole. Each flaw should bring the grade down accordingly and this green label (aka-fake label) is make belief. Why even have a green label that states NM- if the book isn't NM- to begin with? The purpose of a green label should be to point out flaws such as MVS missing, page missing which may effect the story and also should be downgraded accordingly with the green label there just to note that there is something important missing on the INSIDE. We should not make up imaginary grades if it isn't true.

 

Like I said earlier, once you allow one flaw to slide on by we start falling down the "slippery slope," A Bindery hole IMO is a flaw just like any other flaw and should be downgraded accordingly. The argument of it being a certain grade w/o the defect is fallacious because we can argue that for any flaw then. If we allowed this CGC could also put a green label on a book with grader's notes that read, "NM 9.4 if it didn't have spine stress, foxing, or creased corners."

[Arty]

To all those qualified grade criticisers: what is your alternative to the way CGC grades these comics?

 

How would you grade these?

 

Poor 1.0 book with 3 punch holes

 

apparent FINE 6.5 comic book, with 3 punch holes

 

apparent flawless NM/Mint comic with 3 punch holes

 

[Rickdogg]

If a book had 3 holes and no other defects. Hmmmm probably give or take Blue Top VG/FN depending on the size of the holes.

[Arty]

To me it maybe is equivalent to FN, but to someone it might be equal to fair...and that is a main problem to any alternative grade other than qualified.

[Rickdogg]

To me it maybe is equivalent to FN, but to someone it might be equal to fair...and that is a main problem to any alternative grade other than qualified.

 

This argument holds no water since the same could be said about a spine stress, corner crease, etc. The green label being used as an imaginary grade is dumb and should be thrown out in these types of instances. CGC downgrades spine stress, creases, rounded corners, foxing, etc depending on how bad it is. Why not do the same for HOLES? Does CGC allow us to determine how much other flaws downgrade a book? NO

[PovertyRow]

If a book had 3 holes and no other defects. Hmmmm probably give or take Blue Top VG/FN depending on the size of the holes.

 

So Rick, if you ordered a book from a catalogue that was graded VG/Fn and it came through in a, say VF/NM with 3 holes punched in it, would you take the book and say "Thanks - accurately graded?"

[Rickdogg]

I would say accurately graded, but like a date stamp it should have been noted.

[Arty]

I think qualified should be used only for unusual defects.

Spine stress , creases etc are normal wear and people know what to expect. If you buy a VG book you know what kind of defects it has.

[PovertyRow]

I would say accurately graded, but like a date stamp it should have been noted.

 

Somehow I felt you would say that!

 

But here is the real crux...as CGC states "A Qualified label is used by CGC for certified books that have a significant defect that needs specific description. For example, it is would be a disservice to the seller and buyer to call a VF/NM book with a 4-inch back cover tear a VG, so CGC will give this book a Qualified grade of "VF/NM 9.0, back cover 4-inch tear." "

 

Note significent defect. Also the singular "a significant defect". The thing is that Qualified books are going to be head and shoulders above their companions that would be in the same grade due to normal wear and tear. I actually agree with CGC in their statement that it "would be a disservice to the seller and buyer to call a VF/NM book with a 4-inch back cover tear a VG." It is simply NOT an accurate description of the book to call it VG.

 

But getting back to your saying it is accurately graded - would you say that a regular VG book that has the normal spine stress and corner creases is not accurately graded because those normal conditions were not specified?

[Bonds25]

For the love of all that is good in this world Shuley, it's YOU'RE, not YOUR.

 

YOU'RE means YOU ARE. As in "You're an a-hole Rickdogg."

Your indicates possession. As in "Your collection sucks Rickdogg".

 

Again, your and you're are 2 different words, with 2 different meanings. When you mean to say "YOU ARE", then use YOU'RE.

 

Comprende amigo?

[Arty]

Does CGC allow us to determine how much other flaws downgrade a book? NO

 

That's true, but I think that in case of unusual and rare one-of a kind defects (like punch holes) it can not be determined how much these flaws downgrade a book.

 

Just like you can't determine a true value for a single, oldest in census Mint 10 silverage book. But if there are dozens of 9.0 books their value can be reasonably "accurately" estimated.

 

I see it like a "statistical" thing. (hope my english is still understandable.)

 

 

[PovertyRow]

For the love of all that is good in this world Shuley, it's YOU'RE, not YOUR.

 

For the love of all that is Qualified in this world, we have had...do I believe my eyes? 111 replies on a potentially explosive topic with civility, intelligence on all sides, give and take and disagreements that have been intelligently expressed. Don't you dare try to sabotage this with a grammar lesson. Be it your/you're or its/it's or to/too/two - whatever! We are approaching epic proportions in actually exchanging differing ideas!

[Rickdogg]

"But here is the real crux...as CGC states "A Qualified label is used by CGC for certified books that have a significant defect that needs specific description. For example, it is would be a disservice to the seller and buyer to call a VF/NM book with a 4-inch back cover tear a VG, so CGC will give this book a Qualified grade of "VF/NM 9.0, back cover 4-inch tear.

 

Note significent defect. Also the singular "a significant defect". The thing is that Qualified books are going to be head and shoulders above their companions that would be in the same grade due to normal wear and tear. I actually agree with CGC in their statement that it "would be a disservice to the seller and buyer to call a VF/NM book with a 4-inch back cover tear a VG." It is simply NOT an accurate description of the book to call it VG."

 

CGC is a 3rd party grading company and their job is to grade and not make up imaginary grades of " (9.4 NM big hole on the cover). Unusual flaws should be noted under the grade and is also the sellers responsibility to disclose this. For example:

 

1) -Book with normal wear and tear

(Blue Top) CGC 4.0

 

2) -Book with 3 Bindery Holes:

(Blue Top) CGC 4.0 VG "Grader's Notes: 3 Bindery Holes"

 

3) -Book with DS

 

(Blue Top) CGC 4.0 VG "Grader's Notes: Date Stamp on Front Cover"

 

Like I said in my posts above. If CGC stopped using these imaginary green tops for these types of instances and graded them honestly, I would respect them more, but hey in the end it is their company.

 

"But getting back to your saying it is accurately graded - would you say that a regular VG book that has the normal spine stress and corner creases is not accurately graded because those normal conditions were not specified?"

 

The book is accurately graded. I only believe unusual flaws such as bindery holes and date stamps should be noted and incorporated into the grade. Similar to what CGC used to do about datestamps. Downgrade the book and please note unusual defects. CGC MADE A HUGE MISTAKE BY REMOVING THE GRADER'S NOTES!

 

 

[PovertyRow]

(Blue Top) CGC 4.0 VG "Grader's Notes: 3 Bindery Holes"

 

But this is where the problem lies. To simple say 4.0 Vg - Grader Notes: Bindery Holes - that doesn;t describe the book. Is it a VG with Bindery holes? What is it? What? Whaaaattttt? (and Psycho is not a Horror movie!)

[PovertyRow]

(Blue Top) CGC 4.0 VG "Grader's Notes: 3 Bindery Holes"

 

But this is where the problem lies. To simple say 4.0 Vg - Grader Notes: Bindery Holes - that doesn;t describe the book. Is it a VG with Bindery holes? What is it? What? Whaaaattttt?

 

Suppose your a VF/NM. You're nestled in your mylar in an acid free box. You smile as you lie in cool even temperatures and mild humidity. When BAM! Someone comes along and three-hole-punches you, little bits of your inner pages go flyin' all ovah! Now I axe you? Are you gonna give a hoot what kind of pants the so and so who punched you is wearin'?

[Rickdogg]

To be more specific:

 

CGC 4.0 VG "Grader's Notes: 3 Bindery Holes"

 

The seller can always add a nice picture, describe it in detail and the understanding would be had. (ie. Perfect Spine, Razor sharp Corners,etc etc View the scan! Beautiful! Not your ordinary VG book! Email me for details.) The seller could also include the serial # so that the buyer can call CGC toll free and ask about why it got the 4.0 VG.

 

Like I said CGC needs to be honest to themselves and be a true 3rd party.

[PovertyRow]

The seller can always add a nice picture, describe it in detail and the understanding would be had.

 

But in doing so you are now putting aspects of the CGC grading system into the descriptive hands of the seller, which opens up a who new canna wurms!

[Rickdogg]

Suppose your a VF/NM. You're nestled in your mylar in an acid free box. You smile as you lie in cool even temperatures and mild humidity. When BAM! Someone comes along and three-hole-punches you, little bits of your inner pages go flyin' all ovah! Now I axe you? Are you gonna give a hoot what kind of pants the so and so who punched you is wearin'?

 

Yeah so I can go kick his butt for making me a VG! HAHAHAHAHA

[PovertyRow]

Yeah so I can go kick his butt for making me a VG! HAHAHAHAHA

 

::snarfle::