Stan VS. Jack : Who was the real creator ?

[Foolkiller]

andrew,

normally I'm on board with your opinions, but I do think that the SA Spidey stories are still readable, even today. Is some of the language corny? Sure. These are 60s comic books and for their time, I think the storytelling and language still holds up pretty well. Like me, you grew up on 80s books, where the storytelling became more geared towards adults, but for a medium that was aimed for children, especially when you compare it to what DC was putting out at the time, the stuff was revolutionary. I think Spidey in particular holds up the best... but I went back and read TOS 80-81 (my all time favorite Cap story) and Avengers 1-10 and some of the FF stuff and while it isn't great literature, I still think it holds up when you consdier the audience it was geared towards...

 

Also consider: did you think it was as cornball when you were 13 or 14 when you first got the Masterwork? I know I thought it was a little silly, but at the same time was sort of into it. Now, I it is harder to read it, but... it's also cause I'm older and a little more educated but I still enjoy it for what it is.

 

 

As far as Stan and Jack are concerned, I've always felt this "movement" to get Jack more credit is total bs. he's a great, revolutionary artist. But many books in the SA were successful with the likes of Ditko, Romita and even guys like Don Heck. So... Jack deserves credit for the output of work and some visual creativity. But as to who was more important, it's Stan. Even listen to Roy and older guys at Marvel... Stan even had a vision of what the art should look like (admittedly, that often was, draw it more like Kirby). But it was Stan who steered the ship in writing and an editorial direction for Marvel as company.

[Zonker]

Thanks for the link!

[burntboy]

Thanks for the link!

 

what he said - VERY interesting article on Kirby

[PUNYHUMAN]

IMHO, They both were!!!! I remember buying those books off the newstands in the 60's ,like FF,or Thor & knowing they were going to be great. You looked foward to them every month. On another note: I always liked the story that John Romita told,that he used to get a ride home at night ,out to Long Island ,& Lee & Kirby would be discussing a story plot together & neither one would be listening to each other at times,somehow it worked out in the end!!!!

[COI]

Actually, I agree with you about the Spideys. It may have come out wrong in my above posts, but I do think that early Spideys are still readable, and I will always have a sense of nostalgia for them. Also, they represent a more innocent time, and it's refreshing. Every so often, in my last line of work, I needed to crack open a Masterwork now and then just to shake off the edge. A little innocence and simplicity is good every so often.

 

I hate to say it, but comics are becomming more of a collectible for me, then they are reading material. I'm trying to read more, at least when it comes to modern stuff, so that I don't totally lose touch with that aspect of the hobby.

 

 

[blowout]

hate to say it, but comics are becomming more of a collectible for me, then they are reading material. I'm trying to read more, at least when it comes to modern stuff, so that I don't totally lose touch with that aspect of the hobby.

 

I am suffering from the same problem myself lately too, and only seem to buy/collect comics that offer some nostalgia or collectability factor. I have entirely stopped reading new books, as of six months ago when I dropped my last two regular titles (ASM & 100 Bullets). Now, aside from the odd copy of Wizard my comic purchases are limited solely to books I grew up with, SA via older relatives and BA off the comic racks.

I am still not sure if this is a good or bad thing.

[Calamerica]

This is a great Thread!!! Keep up the good work!!!

[COI]

am still not sure if this is a good or bad thing.

 

It's neither, IMO. There will be some supposed "purists" who say that a true collector is a reader, but that's B.S. I do read moderns, but not with any sort of frequency. I think that may be bad, only because I may miss something really good, but I read the modern forums for that. I also have a friend who is strictly a reader who spends $500+ a month on new stuff, gets his own personal copy of the Diamond catalogue once a month, and never misses a beat on upcoming titles. But he has no interest in collecting. I've known him since the 4th grade. We bought and traded the same books off the stands. The difference is that we have grown to enjoy the hobby in 2 different ways. I was always fascinated with back-issues, and the older stuff, and he was always interested in getting the newest issues off the stands. He thinks it's cool that I have all these high grade Silver, and bronze, and he does take interest. But at the end of the day he's a reader. He looks for the next great writer/artist/title/storyline, and I look for the next high grade aquisition. Neither is better than the other.

 

The one thing that we all seem to forget at times is that it's the diversity involved that makes this hobby so interesting. Whether you collect low grade readers, high grade G.A, S.A, or bronze, CGC 9.8/9.9/10.0 moderns, or buy strictly off the stand, you've got to just go with what you like. That's what makes it a hobby, and that's what is supposed to make hobbies a pleasant diversion from everyday life.

[Zonker]

I hate to say it, but comics are becomming more of a collectible for me, then they are reading material.

 

I bet a lot of us feel this way one time or another. The good news is, this can be a phase to move in and out of. DC did a pretty good job of roping me back in as a reader at various points when I had lost interest in new stuff: the arrival of Alan Moore in the mid-1980s, then the arrival of Neil Gaiman in 1989 or so. Most recently it was Grant Morrison's turn at JLA in the late 1990s that renewed my interest. At Marvel I suspect something similar is at work in books like Bendis' Daredevil, Millar's Ultimates, etc.

 

Another syndrome I and I suspect many other forumites develop is the realization at some point it's become more fun to read about comics than to read the comics themselves!

[Foolkiller]

I bet a lot of us feel this way one time or another. The good news is, this can be a phase to move in and out of. DC did a pretty good job of roping me back in as a reader at various points when I had lost interest in new stuff: the arrival of Alan Moore in the mid-1980s, then the arrival of Neil Gaiman in 1989 or so. Most recently it was Grant Morrison's turn at JLA in the late 1990s that renewed my interest. At Marvel I suspect something similar is at work in books like Bendis' Daredevil, Millar's Ultimates, etc.

 

Another syndrome I and I suspect many other forumites develop is the realization at some point it's become more fun to read about comics than to read the comics themselves!

 

Great post Zonker. I totally agree with this. However, I notice that these days there is a much, much narrower scope of what I can read and enjoy as to when I was in my late teens/early 20s. I think as we get older, the stories themselves seem a bit recycled, like we've read it before. Most of the people who post regularly here on these boards are more interested in tracking the market and discussing the history of comics. I think that's more where my interest lies now too. I will always love comics, but the storylines and dialog isn't all that. It makes it hard to keep my interest.

 

Also, as you get older, you generally become more educated. Most of the people here who post on the boards demonstrate a fairly high level of intellect (with varrying degrees) of either what we think of traditional intellect ("book" smarts) or are extremely savvy with how to deal with most situations that actually come up in life ("street" smarts. never underestimate this quality). Anyway, neither type of person is really going to read a comic book (most comics available, past, present or future) and be able to completely immerse themselves. Hey, it's a comic book. It's fun but... and that's the difference to when you're a child or a teenager even. You read the stories with a whole different mindset.

[Peter_Parker59]

This is a great Thread!!! Keep up the good work!!!

 

Thanks a lot !

 

I'm always much interested in any issues regarding the conditions in which SA Marvel comics were created

[blowout]

The one thing that we all seem to forget at times is that it's the diversity involved that makes this hobby so interesting. Whether you collect low grade readers, high grade G.A, S.A, or bronze, CGC 9.8/9.9/10.0 moderns, or buy strictly off the stand, you've got to just go with what you like. That's what makes it a hobby, and that's what is supposed to make hobbies a pleasant diversion from everyday life.

 

This is very true, as lets face it, not many of us are in the position in terms of either $$$ or commitment to go down the sort of road that the Ian Levine's of this world have.