Copper collectors! Do you want your own "Age" in the Registry?

[Silent Master]

So my Comico Primer #2, long considered a CA Grail, is now a Bronze Age book?

 

I've always considered the CA to start in 1980...and I would put the end of the CA at 1993

Honestly, me too.

 

I always considered it kicking off in late 1980, and going all the way to January, 1993.

 

That's why I think the best way to come to a common agreement for Copper Age start and stop periods is by major events. And a lot was going on in 1980.

 

1980 in comics

 

Which major events happened in 1980?

 

I mean, if you want to talk about big things happening in the early 80s, you've got 1982 (Pacific Comics, Epic Comics, 1st Marvelman & V for Vendetta in Warrior Magazine, 1st Love & Rockets, GI Joe begins, 1st Wolverine mini-series, 1st Primer from Comico, etc) and 1984 (a ton of small press publishers, Moore on Swamp Thing, 1st TMNT, Secret Wars, 1st Spider-Man black costume, Mage, etc).

 

1980 has the Teen Titans and the Dark Phoenix saga in UXM - that's about it :shrug:

 

- here we go with the date battle!!! I love these! (I say 1982!!!)

[Bosco685]

Which major events happened in 1980?

 

I mean, if you want to talk about big things happening in the early 80s, you've got 1982 (Pacific Comics, Epic Comics, 1st Marvelman & V for Vendetta in Warrior Magazine, 1st Love & Rockets, GI Joe begins, 1st Wolverine mini-series, 1st Primer from Comico, etc) and 1984 (a ton of small press publishers, Moore on Swamp Thing, 1st TMNT, Secret Wars, 1st Spider-Man black costume, Mage, etc).

 

1980 has the Teen Titans and the Dark Phoenix saga in UXM - that's about it :shrug:

I had already stated before I had no problem giving in on the DC Comics Presents 26 item, though personally I feel the teaming up of Perez and Wolfman was the foundation of what they delivered later on. And yes, I am a huge fan of their early New Teen Titans material, and felt it was a minor game-changer. But when they delivered Crisis on Infinite Earths in 1985, it was a huge cleanup effort which altered the DC Universe.

 

I also pointed out earlier Miller taking creative control in Daredevil 168 (1980-1981) , the amazing Warrior creative content from Alan Moore (1982-1985), and TMNT 1 (1984). I recognize many see these as major event items.

 

As an example of how the beginning of something allows for later impactful delivery, Miller taking over creative control of Daredevil in 1980-1981 later on allowed for Born Again in DD 227-233. This was a tremendous change for Daredevil and all characters involved, and is one of the most memorable runs in a major title to come out of the Copper Age. I consider this just as industry-impactful as Alan Moore's Swamp Thing run (one of my all-time favorites).

 

So 1980-1981 not only had Perez-Wolfman, but also the Miller kickoff, making it both a DC and Marvel creative change that would have long-term effects. Major enough to make it kick off a change in comics? That's for the group to decide.

 

And why I say 1980-1981 for DD 168 is because the book was created in late 1980, but is noted as distributed in January, 1981. So right on the cusp of the 1980-81 transition.

[Bosco685]

That's why I think it is a shame many go after Daredevil 158 since it is when Miller joined on to do the artwork, but Daredevil 168 is really the more critical issue. And not because it is the 1st appearance of Elektra, a B character over time.

 

I wish CGC would note this on the DD 168 label about Miller assuming creative control of the character. A huge impact, in my opinion.

[Silent Master]

There's probably not a person on the boards that knows less about the details of comics than me however I think maybe everyone wants to pin down the start date of the copper age as a single event or single book, I think maybe it's more than that. The Renaissance Age isn't narrowed down to a single painting or artist and the industrial age isn't narrowed down to a single product or machine (ok, maybe arguably the cotton mill). But the point is why does it HAVE to be an exact date or book (and really if it is a book wouldn't it REALLY start when that character or idea came to the artist/writer? That would be the start right.)

 

So again coming from the guy who knows very little about comic history (other than my history with comics which to me is what's important to me!), I think keeping it generic is best, after all I think it's clear that everyone has a thought and no one will ever be 100% happy regardless. The copper age is more about a change or movement in the thoughts of either comic producers OR more importantly, the comic consumer! I think CGC should just pick a time based on the most general facts known and go with it! And if Overstreet had the balls to step-up and pick a date range that's at least generally accepted then fine, good for them, lets go for it!

 

Yeah! My longest post ever!

[Bosco685]

however I think maybe everyone wants to pin down the start date of the copper age as a single event or single book, I think maybe it's more than that.

I like the way you think when it comes to the Copper Age time period. Very good point!

 

 

 

Yeah! My longest post ever!

No kidding!

 

[Mr 9.8]

however I think maybe everyone wants to pin down the start date of the copper age as a single event or single book, I think maybe it's more than that.

I like the way you think when it comes to the Copper Age time period. Very good point!

 

 

 

Yeah! My longest post ever!

No kidding!

 

I like to refer to the copper age as ''those 80's books''.

 

[Silent Master]

I love the 80's!!! So 1980 thru 1989!!!! And we change the name to the Reagan Age of comics!

[mschmidt]

So again coming from the guy who knows very little about comic history (other than my history with comics which to me is what's important to me!), I think keeping it generic is best, after all I think it's clear that everyone has a thought and no one will ever be 100% happy regardless. The copper age is more about a change or movement in the thoughts of either comic producers OR more importantly, the comic consumer! I think CGC should just pick a time based on the most general facts known and go with it! And if Overstreet had the balls to step-up and pick a date range that's at least generally accepted then fine, good for them, lets go for it!

Overstreet specificies the copper age as comics published from 1984 to 1992.

[Bosco685]

Overstreet specificies the copper age as comics published from 1984 to 1992.

Well, then there ya go. TMNT 1 to Superman 75 (or thereabouts).

 

 

The only challenge is stating the Copper Age only lasted for 8 years?!

[mschmidt]

Overstreet specificies the copper age as comics published from 1984 to 1992.

Well, then there ya go. TMNT 1 to Superman 75 (or thereabouts).

 

 

The only challenge is stating the Copper Age only lasted for 8 years?!

 

I think the end date is pretty much set in stone - Image Comics launches in 1992, and that's definitely the turning point from copper to modern.

 

As to the start date, my personal belief is that CA begins in 1982.

[Bosco685]

I think the end date is pretty much set in stone - Image Comics launches in 1992, and that's definitely the turning point from copper to modern.

 

As to the start date, my personal belief is that CA begins in 1982.

The end period does make sense.

 

It's the start that becomes a challenge. Do events such as major creative talent taking over a title count, or is it the requirement for massive change within the industry occurring in order to be considered most impactful?

 

It sounds like some lean more towards the latter as the significant event to launch a critical period in comics. I'd be okay with that if not for the Miller impact, and how this comes across as influencing other creative talent.

[Silent Master]

Does Overstreet give a justification as why they picked 1984? It seems changes are in full swing by then and several key events occurred in 1984. If SEVERAL things are happening I can't see how that's a beginning... but if that's what it is then that's what it is!

[oakman29]

Does Overstreet give a justification as why they picked 1984? It seems changes are in full swing by then and several key events occurred in 1984. If SEVERAL things are happening I can't see how that's a beginning... but if that's what it is then that's what it is!

I would venture to say the birth of the independants,such as TMNT#1

[Silent Master]

Does Overstreet give a justification as why they picked 1984? It seems changes are in full swing by then and several key events occurred in 1984. If SEVERAL things are happening I can't see how that's a beginning... but if that's what it is then that's what it is!

I would venture to say the birth of the independants,such as TMNT#1

 

Hmmmm - but would an independent company invest in a venture like starting a comic company if changes to the industry hadn't already taken place and giving them some idea that they would be accepted??? OR would consumers buy independently produced comics if they hadn't already been exposed to changes in the industry???

 

, I think 1984 is perfectly fine! If that's it how do we get CGC on board?

[Bosco685]

If that's it how do we get CGC on board?

Michael or Doc Joe tells them and it just happens.

 

 

[oakman29]

If that's it how do we get CGC on board?

Michael or Doc Joe tells them and it just happens.

 

I knew Doc Joe has more pull than he lets on!

[Bosco685]

I knew Doc Joe has more pull than he lets on!

Yes, he does.

 

Gene Simmons - just a common man

[mschmidt]

Does Overstreet give a justification as why they picked 1984? It seems changes are in full swing by then and several key events occurred in 1984. If SEVERAL things are happening I can't see how that's a beginning... but if that's what it is then that's what it is!

I would venture to say the birth of the independants,such as TMNT#1

 

Hmmmm - but would an independent company invest in a venture like starting a comic company if changes to the industry hadn't already taken place and giving them some idea that they would be accepted??? OR would consumers buy independently produced comics if they hadn't already been exposed to changes in the industry???

 

Nothing exists in a vacuum - all comic book ages are in some way shaped by the events that preceded them.

 

The launch of Image in 1992, for instance, could never have happened if the indie explosion of the 80s hadn't paved the way for creator-owned comic books.

 

TMNT #1, published by two guys using a tax refund and a family loan, would never have seen the light of day if Dave Sim hadn't already shown that self-publishing was possible with Cerebus back in 1977.

 

And Cerebus was, in turn, inspired by Howard the Duck (1973) and Conan the Barbarian (1970).

[Bosco685]

TMNT #1, published by two guys using a tax refund and a family loan, would never have seen the light of day if Dave Sim hadn't already shown that self-publishing was possible with Cerebus back in 1977.

And Elfquest from Fantasy Quarterly 1 (1978), though their self-publishing didn't happen until Elfquest 2.

[AGGIEZ]

Does Overstreet give a justification as why they picked 1984? It seems changes are in full swing by then and several key events occurred in 1984. If SEVERAL things are happening I can't see how that's a beginning... but if that's what it is then that's what it is!

I would venture to say the birth of the independants,such as TMNT#1

 

Hmmmm - but would an independent company invest in a venture like starting a comic company if changes to the industry hadn't already taken place and giving them some idea that they would be accepted??? OR would consumers buy independently produced comics if they hadn't already been exposed to changes in the industry???

 

Nothing exists in a vacuum - all comic book ages are in some way shaped by the events that preceded them.

 

The launch of Image in 1992, for instance, could never have happened if the indie explosion of the 80s hadn't paved the way for creator-owned comic books.

 

TMNT #1, published by two guys using a tax refund and a family loan, would never have seen the light of day if Dave Sim hadn't already shown that self-publishing was possible with Cerebus back in 1977.

 

And Cerebus was, in turn, inspired by Howard the Duck (1973) and Conan the Barbarian (1970).

 

 

So let's just extend the Bronze Age to 1992 and call it a day.