How do you determine FMV based on Sigs alone?

[jonjesper]

I have always found FMV to be what someone is willling to pay. I have a certain price in mind based on past history of sales I have had or GPA and go from there. But the bottom line is I can list a book for any price I want, if it doesnt sell, it matters not...

[Rich_Henn]

There's also the "unnamed boardie" model for SS pricing:

 

- one signature = double GPA for a blue label

- two signatures = triple GPA for a blue label

etc

 

Not sure it works so well in real life, though

 

I can't imagine who would be trying to get "Rich" using a strategy like that.

 

Certainly not someone who helps you get all your books signed thats for sure.

[Rich_Henn]

There's also the "unnamed boardie" model for SS pricing:

 

- one signature = double GPA for a blue label

- two signatures = triple GPA for a blue label

etc

 

Not sure it works so well in real life, though

 

You'll have to come back and let us know.

 

I see much bigger premiums in play here outside double and tripple GPA blue label.

 

But then again, these ARE very difficult signatures to obtain.

 

The Boys #1, Cursed Pirate Girl and Black Orchid sets are clearly the hardest to come by, hence the multiple times blue label GPA.

 

http://shop.ebay.com/mschmidt10k/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p4340

 

 

[mschmidt]

There's also the "unnamed boardie" model for SS pricing:

 

- one signature = double GPA for a blue label

- two signatures = triple GPA for a blue label

etc

 

Not sure it works so well in real life, though

 

You'll have to come back and let us know.

 

I see much bigger premiums in play here outside double and tripple GPA blue label.

 

But then again, these ARE very difficult signatures to obtain.

 

The Boys #1, Cursed Pirate Girl and Black Orchid sets are clearly the hardest to come by, hence the multiple times blue label GPA.

 

http://shop.ebay.com/mschmidt10k/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p4340

 

 

Those books have yellow label GPA or board sales data that support the asking price

 

Can you say the same for the BIN's you usually have on ebay or here on the boards?

[Rich_Henn]

I dunno...I thought we were talking about a formula that was 1 signature=double blue label GPA, two signatures=double blue label GPA :think:

We weren't discussing if a yellow label signature was in line with GPA data...but okay, let's do that.

 

Black Orchid #1 CGC 9.8 blue label GPA $10

Black Orchid #1 CGC 9.9 blue label GPA $53

Black Orchid #1 CGC 9.8 yellow label GPA $100 but that was in 2007

:shrug: could be current 2010 data will change that?

 

Black Orchid #2 CGC 9.8 blue label GPA $19

but a 9.9 of this same book went for $45 back in 2006 so who knows if this is accurate data for 2010. Could be more, could be less.

 

Black Orchid #3 CGC 9.8 blue label GPA $25

BUT! That was in 2006, with no sales since. And again, no yellow label data to compare against, so it's anyone's game.

 

Or all three books for the low price of $269, marked down from $299.

That's still multiple multiple of blue label GPA, which is your argument.

There's no yellow label GPA on some of those to hold a baseline, but that's okay.

 

SANDMAN MYSTERY THEATRE ANNUAL #1 CGC 9.8 signed 3x

Alex Ross, Guy Davis and Geoff Darrow

 

According to GPA on that book, we've got the following:

Well...there is NO data!

Looking at census though, there are two copies in 9.8 signature series.

We know looking at the Ebay BIN price on this one copy that it does hold 3 nice signatures. I'd wager that if a blue label in 9.8 showed up on the market, the closing price would be significantly less then your asking price.

 

Cry for Dawn #7 CGC 9.6 blue label GPA $40 in 2009 (all time high $55)

Cry for Dawn #7 CGC 9.6 yellow label---well, there is none.

BUT...there's a killer 9.6 yellow label signed by Linsner on Ebay right now with an asking price of $134.95, marked down 10% from $149.95

Looking at the math, that's still just slightly more then 3x GPA blue label.

Which, well...that's actually more then your original equation of 1 sig=double blue GPA. $40 divided by $149 on my calculator is 3.72x actual GPA.

 

Here's one where we can realistically say yes...there is a true yellow label baseline and a blue label to hold against your argument.

 

The Boys #1 in 9.8 IS a tough book to come by....

 

The Boys #1 CGC 9.8 GPA blue label $53 in June 2010

The Boys #1 CGC 9.8 GPA yellow label $63 in May 2010

 

BUT if you missed out on these books, you can right now ---

currently up on Ebay with a BIN--The Boys #1 CGC 9.8 yellow label s/s x2 $148 (ennis and Robertson!)

(just about tripple blue label GPA) and more then double yellow label (currently).

 

The GPA high being $125 on that in yellow.., GPA low being $60 on that book.

 

Now this one is a little closer to your current argument, that being in line with yellow label GPA.

 

Next Men #21 CGC 9.8 GPA blue label $204 in July 2010

Next Men #21 CGC 9.8 GPA yellow label $224 in July 2010

Next Men #21 CGC 9.8 GPA yellow label currently on Ebay BIN $337

(marked down from $374)

So not quite double blue label GPA but---:think: still $100 over current yellow label GPA.

 

Here's one---

You can get a set of CURSED PIRATE GIRL #1, 2, 3 all s/s Jeremy Bastian on Ebay right now for $699.95

GPA blue label on each of those books in 9.8 --

#1 = $98, #2= $38 but with no blue label GPA to work against, I guess you could look to the current yellow label market of #3 in 9.8 which looks to be $26.

Hmm.

All three books....one signature each...a nice premium of 5x and then some.

What calculator are you using to gage this against?

 

When I price my books, I look at the time and effort that went into getting those books. I factor in an airline ticket, convention costs, my hotel, all my expenses....how long did I wait in line maybe?

How often does that creator come out to do conventions?

 

Also, the new structure of the signature series program is progressively making it harder and harder to do multiple signatures on books.

 

I actually DO the leg work to get my signature series books.

And then I price accordingly. Based on what I personally think the book is worth against how many of them are actually out there, who's on the book, the grade of the book.

 

So again...your initial argument here WASNT about yellow label GPA, it was a mathematical equation of 1 signature=double blue GPA, 2 signatures=triple blue label GPA, etc.

You might want to add in there something about buffering and taking into account current or old yellow label figures too.

 

Either way...it's anyones right to price they're books however they see fit.

I calculate my time, money and effort into the grade and signatures as well.

I also look at GPA and grading census to see just how many of these are out there in 9.8 and how many are out there in 9.8 yellow.

If there aren't that many, or any...then yes, I'm going to ask a premium.

 

 

I remember going out of my way for someone to get them some Vasquez books signed, in a line that went around the convention hall and had a handler at the front that was ready to kill someone if they tried to get more then 2 items signed.

And out of the six that someone gave me, I got FOUR done.

I didn't get any for myself, I didn't get any for any other boardies, who actually suffered because I had six others in a set on top.

 

And I heard a faint complaint that not all six got signed.

 

We, as facilitators, get that a LOT.

I don't think people really grasp just how much actual WORK goes into getting these books done.

 

Fair market value is whatever either you, the owner of the book decides it is with a BIN, or you let the market decide.

Try throwing your books up with 99 cents and no reserve, and let's see what true FMV is on those books, Michael.

 

People will always want 9.8 books at 9.2 prices (or less)

Being able to PAY 9.2 prices for 9.8 books, albeit yellow OR blue label...is something else entirely.

 

I know full well what GPA is, and what my asking prices are and I'm not willing to give away my books...I'll make coasters first.

 

If you're going to live in a glass house, buy a bottle of Windex.

[seanfingh]

[mschmidt]

I dunno...I thought we were talking about a formula that was 1 signature=double blue label GPA, two signatures=double blue label GPA :think:

We weren't discussing if a yellow label signature was in line with GPA data...but okay, let's do that.

 

[lots of stuff removed]

No, let's not - I honestly can't be bothered to go through the items one by one and repudiate your skewed statements. Nor do I feel like going through your ebay BIN auctions and putting a spotlight on the absurdity of you critizing anyone's prices.

 

I consider you a top-notch seller, Rich - and have never had anything but good transactions with you - but your pricing has always been off the mark, which isn't exactly a well-kept secret around here.

 

 

When I price my books, I look at the time and effort that went into getting those books. I factor in an airline ticket, convention costs, my hotel, all my expenses....how long did I wait in line maybe?

How often does that creator come out to do conventions?

 

Also, the new structure of the signature series program is progressively making it harder and harder to do multiple signatures on books.

 

I actually DO the leg work to get my signature series books.

And then I price accordingly. Based on what I personally think the book is worth against how many of them are actually out there, who's on the book, the grade of the book.

 

Either way...it's anyones right to price they're books however they see fit.

I calculate my time, money and effort into the grade and signatures as well.

I also look at GPA and grading census to see just how many of these are out there in 9.8 and how many are out there in 9.8 yellow.

If there aren't that many, or any...then yes, I'm going to ask a premium.

Sure. You can price your books any way you want. And for rare & desirable books, asking a reasonable premium is nothing to be scoffed at.

 

(That triple-signed SMT Annual #1 of mine that you brought up earlier? Just like you said here are 2 CGC 9.8 SS copies of that book, but what you failed to mention is that I own both copies. So unless another 9.8 book hits ebay, I have no problem whatsoever giving it a "premium" price.

 

Or that Boys #1? No double-signed copies have ever sold publicly - and a couple of single-sig copies sold for $125 and $100 last year.)

 

But asking a premium for every single book you're trying to sell (due to airline tickets, convention costs, hotel costs, etc) is silly.

 

 

I remember going out of my way for someone to get them some Vasquez books signed, in a line that went around the convention hall and had a handler at the front that was ready to kill someone if they tried to get more then 2 items signed.

And out of the six that someone gave me, I got FOUR done.

I didn't get any for myself, I didn't get any for any other boardies, who actually suffered because I had six others in a set on top.

 

And I heard a faint complaint that not all six got signed.

 

We, as facilitators, get that a LOT.

I don't think people really grasp just how much actual WORK goes into getting these books done.

 

No offense, but I can't stand the "you should just be grateful that somebody is willing to take your books"-line that gets thrown around here from to time - it's incredibly condescending.

 

If you are publicly taking books for a show, I have every right to assume that you will, in fact, get my books signed (barring unforseen circumstances like the creator cancelling) - because I'm paying you to do so. Pretending that you're doing me a friendly favor out of the goodness of your heart (or "going out of your way") just doesn't fly when you're offering up a paid service.

 

And if you don't come through, then, yes, I will be "faintly" disappointed. Deal with it.

 

 

I know full well what GPA is, and what my asking prices are and I'm not willing to give away my books...I'll make coasters first.

Good to know :thumbsup:

[Rich_Henn]

one signature = double GPA for a blue label

- two signatures = triple GPA for a blue label

 

Your words, not mine...that's pretty much where your own stuff is at as well.

 

I don't care what you price your books at, I'm saying don't try to make it sound like you're (above) such a pricing system.

 

Clearly you're not.

 

 

 

 

[seanfingh]

 

I suggest everyone chill out. Rich, shame on you for taking the bait; you are the one who outed yourself in this thread. It really didn't seem like like anything other than some until you dove in headfirst.

 

It's a small community gents, let's not act like hungry dingos around here. That's what Thunderdome is for. [Oh, did i say that out loud?]

[Drakeprimeone]

I suggest everyone chill out. Rich, shame on you for taking the bait; you are the one who outed yourself in this thread. It really didn't seem like like anything other than some until you dove in headfirst.

 

It's a small community gents, let's not act like hungry dingos around here. That's what Thunderdome is for. [Oh, did i say that out loud?]

 

Agreed, I for one am glad a thread of mine has sparked a lively debate. I consider many of you incredibly versed in pricing SS books, so I am glad to see the input.

 

I am not sure anyone would use "1 sig = double blue label", "2 sig = triple", etc as a rigid rule but I am sure there are many books out there and signatures that would apply.

 

I just wish there was more of a comprehensive reference as to which sigs carry more of a perceived higher value than others.

[seanfingh]

 

I just wish there was more of a comprehensive reference as to which sigs carry more of a perceived higher value than others.

 

That is part of the work of this hobby. Staying on top of who is at what shows and knowing who the toughest sigs are. Plus, you never know what is going to happen with cancellations or worse. I have told this story a dozen times, but I had several Dave Stevens books prepped for a show he was attending the week of his untimely death.

 

I also missed getting Harvey Pekar last year, because I wasn't paying attention.

 

As far as price is concerned, as long as you feel like you are getting the value you want for the price you are paying, it is a good deal. If not, walk away. Chances are it will come by again.

[Steve_Paulus]

I suggest everyone chill out. Rich, shame on you for taking the bait; you are the one who outed yourself in this thread. It really didn't seem like like anything other than some until you dove in headfirst.

 

It's a small community gents, let's not act like hungry dingos around here. That's what Thunderdome is for. [Oh, did i say that out loud?]

 

Actually, this seemed personal… when this was posted.

 

I can't imagine who would be trying to get "Rich" using a strategy like that.

 

I just have to say that I’ve known Rich for a long long time. He is a good guy who does not deserve to be mocked or demeaned in this or any other thread. In fact, I have to say that from time to time I feel embarrassed for some board members who feel it is acceptable to trash anyone in this public forum. It is more than a little cowardly… -

[somewhereintexas]

Actually, this seemed personal… when this was posted.

 

I can't imagine who would be trying to get "Rich" using a strategy like that.

 

It was not intended to be personal. It was intended to be a joke. One that I guess fell flat. I'm sorry that I posted it, and if I could take it back, I would. Rich has helped me out on numerous occasions, and the last thing I would want to do is criticize him or call him out in a public forum.

[Joel Elad]

I don't think people really grasp just how much actual WORK goes into getting these books done.

 

No offense, but I can't stand the "you should just be grateful that somebody is willing to take your books"-line that gets thrown around here from to time - it's incredibly condescending.

 

If you are publicly taking books for a show, I have every right to assume that you will, in fact, get my books signed (barring unforseen circumstances like the creator cancelling) - because I'm paying you to do so. Pretending that you're doing me a friendly favor out of the goodness of your heart (or "going out of your way") just doesn't fly when you're offering up a paid service.

 

Well, Mike, you are right and you are wrong. But these statements really go to the heart of a lot of the problems with the SS "community" and how everything is structured... And I guess it boils down to one simple opinion I cannot shake...

 

Almost every single Signature Series facilitator out there is a freakin' fool. I include myself 100% in this opinion.

 

Now that I have your attention, let me explain... The business of taking in a customer's book, preparing it for a convention, carrying it to a convention, getting it autographed by a creator, filling out the paperwork, and submitting the book to CGC is woefully underpriced and heavily abused.

 

First off, let's not kid ourselves anymore. It's a BUSINESS. These items have VALUE. This whole "Oh, I'm doing it for the love of collecting, I would never resell these books, etc. etc." argument is great, but the bottom line is, anybody who submits a comic book to another entity to get an autographed and CGC graded comic book is essentially handing in something of value, paying money for two services, and receiving an item of value back, typically of HIGHER value. Whether you choose to resell the end product is your decision, but that's what is happening here.

 

Therefore, this BUSINESS has been established where people (former witnesses, now called facilitators) are offering a service to take in a comic book, get it signed and graded, for an average now of $35 per modern comic, or $10-20 above actual costs on average. I did not invent this price point, and I am sorry to tell you, the collectors, this, but this price is unsustainable in the long run for any request that is not super simple. (You are free to disagree with me. My response is simply that you can do the job yourself. I'm not stopping you.)

 

Here's why: Rich Henn is not exaggerating when he talks about airfare, hotel costs, badge costs, and the expenses with travelling to a convention. Those are only SOME of the costs that are involved with this business. There are other costs that make this an expensive endeavor.

 

Most overlooked is something called: OPPORTUNITY COST. That's the cost of what I could be doing instead of doing the job of getting your comic signed. I could get one of my own comic books signed, sell it on eBay, and use those profits to pay for my costs. I could be in another line, chasing another opportunity, either making money or doing something *I* feel is important. I may have to skip an opportunity I want in order to fulfill my business because the creator is only signing at certain times with certain rules. Heck, I could stay at work and get paid my hourly wage.

 

This is the biggest problem we are running into recently, where there is limited opportunity for a signature or a product, and the default expectation is that the customer should get that item for cost or cost plus a few bucks. I know this whole argument makes me sound cold, robotic, or selfish, but hey, remember, this is a BUSINESS.

 

What has enabled this "business" to go on for this many years is the assumption that there is more to it than strict business. There is the assumption of favors, of kindness, of gratitude, of community. Why else would facilitators continue bending the rules when customers send in their books late, without any preparation, and beg and plead and beg some more, and once a facilitator has said, yes, I'll go do it, then hearing, "Oh, and I want silver ink, signed on a specific spot, with a head sketch." It seems to me that, no matter what business rules a facilitator tries to put into place to optimize their business so that they can continue to function at a con, there is always someone asking for an exception, or assuming that their business order trumps any other customer order a facilitator has.

 

And this is why the facilitators are fools. We say yes. We bend and bend and bend, taking on more than we should, trying to please our customers, rarely increasing our prices, and inevitably not everything gets done. We enable this behavior and expectation from the community.

 

This is bad business. It's the reason I rarely take submissions, because, frankly, this community cannot afford what I would need to charge to cover all my costs. When I did take a book, it was normally because of a favor or request or me giving back to the community out of guilt or karma or stupidity. Kudos and thanks and the occasional tip are sweet and touching, but they don't pay the rent. They don't pay my bills. With most favors or most requests, you are basically asking me, "Hey, will you work for me for $1 an hour?" or "Can I pay you $20 so you hand me a $100 item?" (Oh, and anybody who holds down a paying job trades their time for money EVERY SINGLE DAY, so I'm not the only w hore out there.) I will do favors for people who reciprocate, or people who can affect my business, or for people I genuinely like, but I cannot afford to do favors for everyone.

 

It's just bad business. I've done my share of favors over the years, I know a number of you have benefitted from my efforts; heck, I did some favors at San Diego last month. I gave someone one of my 2 spots for the Walking Dead cast signing. It's true, I only had 1 book with me and I found out at the very last minute that I was allowed to have 2 items, so I accepted someone's comic book. But I could've easily gotten the free poster signed and sold it on eBay for $157.50 like someone did last week. In this particular example, I accepted the book because the person was deserving and I hope to have a favor banked that I can use in the future.

 

In my opinion, many of the deals or business that has been transacted in the past was for more than the stated price. There was an assumption of a "favor" or something else, maybe just some simple gratitude or understanding. However, I suspect that the other party doesn't always share that sentiment. Now imagine MULTIPLE people, asking ONE OR MORE favors per person, and maybe you get a sense of the problem.

 

Someone asks me to try and get a sketch from David Finch. I spend 90 minutes of my con time at a big show (C2E2) waiting in line, only to get cut off. I have no sketch for the customer, I've earned $0, I've wasted critical time and I've missed a lot of other opportunities. Anyone in business would learn real quick that the next request, and any after that, will have to be NO, if I expect to stay in business.

 

I get repeated requests to get sketches from folks like J. Scott Campbell. I got lucky at the Pasadena show and got a quick 3 minute Black Widow sketch. I paid him for the sketch and was able to resell that sketch myself and net $170 above my actual costs. If I had "sold" that opportunity to a customer for a $20 or even $50 bonus, as a businessman, I just screwed myself out of a sizable amount of money. It's not like I could've gotten 2 sketches, I was blessed to get the one sketch I did get. With limited opportunities and the opportunity cost, someone's "simple request" is basically asking me to reach into my wallet and hand them money.

 

There are many more examples and anecdotes, but simply put, the bottom line is disaster. With creator expectations, CGC rule changes, and the economy bearing down on all of us on top of these issues, facilitators cannot afford to keep giving away their time and money on an ongoing basis. As more and more customers remind their facilitators that this is a business (perhaps when something doesn't go the customer's way) then I think facilitators will hopefully STOP enabling this destructive behavior and either reduce their capacity or increase their prices. (And I think we're seeing less and less facilitators per show taking requests for a reason) This community will see fewer and fewer opportunities for "business as usual" and eventually, CGC will control everything and you will either have to pay their price in order to get your request done or they will tell you NO. CGC will not stay in business to do deals at a loss, but they are big enough to distribute everyone's individual requests and absorb the cost that individual people or groups cannot or should not bear.

 

And in my opinion, and I know I'm a broken record on this subject, but I CANNOT WAIT. I am aching for the day I can drop my books at CGC, pay an agreed upon cost, and move on. Then, I will have free time for real favors.

 

If I've offended you with this Elad long post, all I can say is:

 

It's nothing personal. It's BUSINESS.

 

Feel free to attack, disassemble my post line by line, flame, or respond negatively. I'm letting you know now that any delay in responding is simply because I need to do the work I've ignored by writing this post.

[Rich_Henn]

I would also like to just add the following to this...nothing is worse then when people who (don't) go to shows trivialize what we do.

 

And by we, I mean JJ, Joel, myself, Sean, Adam, any and ALL of us.

 

You may think you are paying for a service. Yes, you are. To a point.

 

But I'll underscore something here....

CGC provides a service.

 

If you go through say someone like Chandler and pay for exclusive signings which are set up for exactly such a service yes...you are paying and paying well...for a service. Be it a Stan Lee event, a Todd McFarlane signing exclusive, an East Coast Legends tour...a Joe Simon event, a Gene Colan signing...you are absolutely paying and paying WELL for that SERVICE.

 

When you're paying someone $7 above your grading costs to stand in line for hours and get a signature on your book...THATS A FAVOR.

 

What some people like myself have done for some of you guys...THAT IS A FAVOR. Make no mistake. When we are getting $5 or $7 or sometimes, yes, even $15 to stand in line for YOU for hours on end...that's a FAVOR.

 

With one exception---

Last year I stood in a line for a total stranger on these boards because he wanted a Dave Finch sketch....for 5 1/2 hours.

That wasn't a favor. That was straight up STUPID.

 

Those favors just came to a screeching halt.

 

To trivialize what we do for some of you, because for whatever reason you can't do it yourself....that's flat out insulting.

 

And now I'm done.

 

Thank you Joel, for sharpening that pencil.

Even I forget what I miss out on when I am running my tail off at shows!

 

I should have listened to a fellow boardie and ex-witness a long, LONG time ago when he warned me about the pitfalls of doing people "favors."

 

Moving forward, I'll certainly be re-thinking my business model.

[mschmidt]

Well, Mike, you are right and you are wrong. But these statements really go to the heart of a lot of the problems with the SS "community" and how everything is structured... And I guess it boils down to one simple opinion I cannot shake...

 

Almost every single Signature Series facilitator out there is a freakin' fool. I include myself 100% in this opinion.

 

Now that I have your attention, let me explain... The business of taking in a customer's book, preparing it for a convention, carrying it to a convention, getting it autographed by a creator, filling out the paperwork, and submitting the book to CGC is woefully underpriced and heavily abused.

 

[shortened for ease of quoting]

 

Good post, Joel - and I'm in complete agreement with you about the underpricing.

 

Just to clarify my position, though ...

 

If I shoot Sean a PM because I know he's attending a show (and I'm not) and ask him to take a couple of my books to get signed, that's a favor. Just like you've done me numerous favors in the past (for which I'm very grateful).

 

But if Facilitator X or Company X creates a public thread saying they are taking submissions for a specific show, and I send them my books, that's business.

 

It doesn't matter whether it's bad business, whether they should be charging more than they do, whether they suddenly have more expenses than they thought they would have; they've set their own prices, they've published these prices, and as a customer I expect them (within reason) to provide me with the service that I've paid for. If those prices are unsustainable - based on the $10-20 above actual cost pr. book, the opportunity for them get their own books SS'ed at the same time, the fact that they were going to be at the show no matter what - then it's up to the faciliator or company to raise their prices, restrict the number of books they'll take for a specific show, or restrict which creators they'll take books for.

 

Don't get me wrong, though - this doesn't mean that I'm above tipping for a job well done - or being appreciative when a particularly hard signature is attained - or giving kudos when my books come back from CGC and they've managed to retain their grades. What it does mean, though, is that I don't want to feel like you're doing me a favor & I should just shut up and be grateful that anyone's even bothering to take my books. And, yes, it also means that if you don't get my books signed because you forgot, left the books at the hotel, or you just weren't paying attention, well, I'm not going to be particularly happy about it.

 

Just to be clear: this is in no way directed at Rich or Joel, I'm referring to a couple of experiences I've had with other people.

 

Nobody's trivializing the amount of work it takes to get signatures - as anyone who's gone to a show & stood in line for hours can attest to, it's back-breaking, mindless work. But, then again, nobody's forcing anyone to announce that they're facilitating a specific show and they're now accepting submissions from the general public. You can't have it both ways - either it's a favor and you make sure that people know you're doing them a favor, or it's a business and you yourself ensure that it makes financial sense for you to take these books. I realize this was a lot easier prior to the changes in the CGC SS program (where you could witness your own books), but the point still stands.

 

Anyway ... I'd like to publicly apologize to Rich for the joke I made at his expense earlier and for my reply to his posts - they were both in poor taste, and I should have known better. RH is an all-round top-notch guy in my book, and I know he's worked his azz off helping people with their SS books (myself included). My apologies, Rich.

[Paratrooper]

Hey guys, what's up?

[RockMyAmadeus]

I don't think people really grasp just how much actual WORK goes into getting these books done.

 

This is what really eats at the nerves, and why getting sigs may be much, much more difficult in times to come.

 

People have been spoiled by cheap, easy sigs, and low, low prices for a couple of years now. They expect, because such and such book sold for such and such "dump" price, to get the same thing, for the same price.

 

But with the restructuring of the SS program, this will simply not be possible.

 

It takes a lot of work and effort to not only track down sigs, but also books in grades acceptable to the buyer.

 

For a book that may sell for $150, slabbing and signing may be as much as $100, and that doesn't even account for the cost or grade of the book.

 

When you work out the manhours involved, it's something around $4-$5/hour. Not worth it.

[MedicAR]

Joel--you've done it again. I just recently thought I had a firm grasp on what it takes to get the signatures done and once again, someone that actually goes out and does the legwork demonstrates how little I truly understand.

 

I sincerely hope I'm not lumped in with the group that takes advantage of the services, kindness, and intense efforts of others, but I think that I likely am. I try not to overwhelm anyone with requests, particularly when they have offered, as was referenced here, a favor rather than an "organized opportunity." I put that in quotes because I know the vast majority of facilitators are organized, but what I'm referring to is the opportunities like Chandler, NYComics, and others have offered publicly.

 

I've got to say that I have been thoroughly impressed by the generosity I've been priveleged to receive here. After watching JJ work at Planet Comicon, I thought I had a better idea of what goes into all of this. Joel put it into different terms and put the whole process in a different light than I had previously seen it, though.

 

My next question isn't meant to inflame or insult, but why not charge more? Does CGC limit what can be charged? I've worked in two businesses now that charge "wait time" when it is warranted. Usually, the first hour free, after that charges can be as low as $35 per hour or as high as $150. Make the charges clear up front, and allow the customer to make the decision on when it is too high to continue. Granted, there will be disagreements about the actual time spent, but we all know Finch is very slow due to the time he spends with each fan and even more time on sketches. Other creators will vary.

 

While on the subject of prepping books, I think I've come a looong way from where I started. I'll cut the windows, label the back boards with all that I can, keep the special requests to a bare minimum and what not, but I'm still willing to do more. I just need to know what else to do. I would be happy to provide the CGC paperwork if I could just get a stack of blanks from someone. That's about all I know of that I could do to make it faster and easier for the facilitators.

 

Contrary to what Joel seems to think, his post isn't inflamatory, it's very informative. It's also always good to be reminded of what kind of work goes into this business, it keeps people like me (who practically never get to go to a show) appreciative of the work of those who we see as "having all the fun." Make no mistake I am jealous of those who get to attend several show each year while I sit at home hoping you can come through for me. I would love to be in your shoes, even if it means additional work and headache. I just can't afford the travel.

 

To wrap it up, THANK YOU to everyone who has gone out of their way to help me with my requests, organized and otherwise. I'll try harder to remember the efforts you all make!

[PeasOfCrap]

jeez, what did i miss on this thread? i gotta go and read all these pages.