Quick Grading Question re: Detached Staple on Otherwise High Grade

[chrisware]

Hi, all.

 

Just wanted some opinions on a grade.

 

Book is a text-book 8.5 except the cover is detached from the top staple.

 

What grade would you assign?

 

Thanks!

[djpinkpanther67]

Q 8.5

[VintageComics]

Is the staple completely detached?

 

Somewhere in the VG/F range.

 

 

[george bailey-migration]

The highest I can remember with one staple detached is a 7.5.

Here are two CGC examples:

 

 

 

 

[VintageComics]

Right. I think it depends on the relative grade of the book outside of the detached staple.

 

I would think that a 9.0+ book with that defect would drop it in the 7.5 range (that is my experience as well on submissions), but a lower grade book below VF range will then drop it into Fine or less range.

 

Again, most likely 5.0 or so depending on the severity of the detached staple.

 

If the paper is "popped" on only one side of the staple the book will obviously grade higher than a completely detached staple.

 

[mrmitchgro]

Right. I think it depends on the relative grade of the book outside of the detached staple.

 

I would think that a 9.0+ book with that defect would drop it in the 7.5 range (that is my experience as well on submissions), but a lower grade book below VF range will then drop it into Fine or less range.

 

Again, most likely 5.0 or so depending on the severity of the detached staple.

 

If the paper is "popped" on only one side of the staple the book will obviously grade higher than a completely detached staple.

 

How about if the staple is only popped from the centerfold?

[fantastic_four]

The highest I can remember with one staple detached is a 7.5.

Here are two CGC examples:

 

 

 

That's an awesome example. Since it looks to be in the 9.4+ range, it suggests CGC's max grade for a popped staple is 7.5, and I bet they'd allow a bunch of other defects to ride along with it down to that level. Looks as if the 5.5 example would've been mid-grade even without the popped staple, yet still higher than 5.5, perhaps 6.5, although you obviously can't tell from the scan.

[Gary Strange]

I have a CGC 9.2 where the bottom staple was never put into the book, I guess it's not the same thing exactly, but...

[Flaming_Telepath]

Old school Overstreet here.

 

VG+ (4.5) would be the highest the book could go.

 

"Qualified" grades are a cop-out. The book's either ed...or it isn't.

[Flaming_Telepath]

I have a CGC 9.2 where the bottom staple was never put into the book, I guess it's not the same thing exactly, but...

 

Manufacturing defect...no reduction in grade in that range.

 

I actually had an All Star-Western #5 that was manufactured with no staples.

[george bailey-migration]

I was old school overstreet too, but the advent of CGC has given us an ideal method to grade comics.

I have made a vast database of CGC graded comics with actual sales prices and dates sold. The first step to answering your question is to find the highest graded Blue Label with the given defect. Next you find several high graded Blue Labels with the defect and compare their sales price with as many similarly graded comics (randomly chosen) with the same sales date. The next step is to find Green Label comics with the defect and compare them to similarly priced Blue Labels. With this information you should be able to get a very good estimate of what the general public will be willing to pay for your comic.

In your case, a VF+ with cover detached at 1 staple should go for the same price as a FN/FN+ with the normal wear associated with the grade.

[chrisware]

I was old school overstreet too, but the advent of CGC has given us an ideal method to grade comics.

I have made a vast database of CGC graded comics with actual sales prices and dates sold. The first step to answering your question is to find the highest graded Blue Label with the given defect. Next you find several high graded Blue Labels with the defect and compare their sales price with as many similarly graded comics (randomly chosen) with the same sales date. The next step is to find Green Label comics with the defect and compare them to similarly priced Blue Labels. With this information you should be able to get a very good estimate of what the general public will be willing to pay for your comic.

In your case, a VF+ with cover detached at 1 staple should go for the same price as a FN/FN+ with the normal wear associated with the grade.

 

Your method is too complicated for my wine-soaked brain, but your result is about what I figured, so I wholeheartedly approve.

 

P.S. This is my first use of a smiley.

[Flaming_Telepath]

I was old school overstreet too, but the advent of CGC has given us an ideal method to grade comics.

 

You lost me at that point.

 

CGC gave us a different method of grading comics.

 

But then didn't tell us what it was.

 

So I think 'ideal' is a stretch.

 

A real stretch.

[Hero Restoration]

Old school Overstreet here.

 

VG+ (4.5) would be the highest the book could go.

 

"Qualified" grades are a cop-out. The book's either ed...or it isn't.

 

I agree Qualifieds are a cop-out (I believed I called it limbo) and going by overstreet that sounds right but I try to combine overstreet with CGC examples and forum feedback. I think it should be a 6.0 unless there is collateral damage from the detachment.

 

 

[george bailey-migration]

You missed my point completely!

I am not making any claim to the competence or lack thereof of CGC grading a comic book; in fact many people on this board repeat the mantra "buy the book, not the slab".

What CGC does do is produce a slew of slabbed comics with a fairly high consistency, that the general public purchase. In opposition to many people on this board I believe that price does matter. The price that collectors pay on average correlates quite well with the grade of the comic book, in fact, this is the method used to actually create the comic grades. Combine this with Green Label comics to isolate specific defects, and you can tell what grade the general public considers any given book.

To make this clearer:

• Many people take CGC's grade at face value and don't look at the book.
  
• Given a large enough study pool, the average prices should correlate ie. a 4.5 should sell for more than a 4.0.
  
• Given a large enough study pool of similar Green Label defects, you can slide them into the Blue Label pool based on price.
  

 

An example would be a Green Label 4.0 with staples cleaned. This one consistently sold at the same price as similar Blue Label 4.0's showing that the defect did not affect the grade at VG or lower. Why it got put in a Green Label at 4.0 is a topic for another time.

 

To say that a Green Label should sell for less because less people want them is disingenuous. I for one will not buy a FN with a small piece out, some will not buy a NM (some won't consider it at a FN price) with a date stamp, and others will not buy a VG with tape. All of these books can be Blue Label, yet still have a substantial percentage of people who will discount the books out of hand.

[fantastic_four]

I was old school overstreet too, but the advent of CGC has given us an ideal method to grade comics.

 

You lost me at that point.

 

CGC gave us a different method of grading comics.

 

But then didn't tell us what it was.

 

So I think 'ideal' is a stretch.

 

A real stretch.

 

It wasn't just "different"--give Borock some credit for his clear incorporation of Overstreet's standards into his own. Overstreet himself gives them that credit...I suspect he knows two people will disagree about certain things and in his post-CGC grading guides he appeared to try to resolve some of those differences himself. It's always unfortunate when people portray Overstreet versus CGC standards as some sort of polar extremes (other people, not you FT) given just how collaborative and open-minded both Overstreet and Borock are as individuals and given how much they've both influenced each other.