Market corrections in September Clink auction results?

[mysterio]

Ugly is ugly whether your momma made you that way or somebody beat you later on with an ugly stick.

 

Like I said, some defects bother some people a lot, others not so much. I would prefer a crease-free book with a bit of minor chipping over a book in the same grade that has no chips but long color breaking creases. That is my preference, but it doesn't have to be yours.

[Flash105]

How many people are going to get ANY of the money back when they retire that was spent at the Pool Hall, Golf Course, or Bowling Alley ? GOD BLESS...

 

 

That's what I keep telling my wife.

 

What about Las Vegas and College Football. Potential Return?

[trmoore54]

How many people are going to get ANY of the money back when they retire that was spent at the Pool Hall, Golf Course, or Bowling Alley ? GOD BLESS...

 

 

That's what I keep telling my wife.

 

I agree (and my wife does too) but it could explain why the uber-expensive stuff is dropping some. It is easier to throw away $250 than it is to throw away $1000 plus. I think that this explains why keys seemingly have no limit (people will always pay a premium for the Hulk #1s or the AF 15s of the world) but the crazy prices for high grade non-keys is coming down fast.

 

Plus all of us that have spent $1000+ on books in the last 2-3 years only to see their value is now half of that are equally reluctant to shell out this kind of dough...I know I'm being very selective these days...

 

And agreed as well on buying a lower price book...I had literally gotten to the point that if I was spending $100 on a book, it was about par with drawing $20 bucks out of the ATM...fairly insignificant...but I've become a little more discerning in this price level as well...

[ComicConnoisseur]

All I can say is that (once again) I ended up as the underbidder on every SA ASM that I placed a bid on, which was mostly 9.2 WP copies. It's not that I'm lowballing either - my bids are between 90% and 110% of GPA, depending on whether I think a book is weak / strong for it's given grade. It seems to be the case with almost every auction for a SA ASM that I've bid on all year, whether it be CLink or eBay. I don't think I've acquired a SA book all year that wasn't a BIN...

 

You missed out earlier this year then, not sure how...all the Silver Spideys I saw were going for 20% - 50% under market. Lots of 9.x copies going for the same prices they did in 2004/2005. This auction was a bit stronger than previous ones this year but by no means an advancement in the market, just an apparent re-solidification of it.

Spideys lost his fastball and people are more psyched about the upcoming Green Lantern and Thor movies now, really everybody I know talks positve of the Johns Green Lantern and everybody has talked negative about Spider-man since Brand New Day,plus not to mention the upcoming Spidey movie reboot seems even less appealing then the Raimi/Tobey Maguire movies,most people I have talked with also were not happy that Raimi/Tobey Maguire got the boot.That`s how people would have felt if Christopher Reeve was fired from Superman! Those could be some reasons why the Spidey books have dropped in value by half.

[fantastic_four]

most people I have talked with also were not happy that Raimi/Tobey Maguire got the boot.That`s how people would have felt if Christopher Reeve was fired from Superman!

 

They didn't get the boot, Raimi quit, and as he said all along, Maguire wasn't going to do the movies without him. The reason Raimi quit is fairly clear and he could have done it years ago for the same reason--he was tired of Sony and Marvel making creative and release decisions that directors are usually free to make themselves. I don't blame Raimi at all as being forced to do things like placing three villains in Spider-Man 3 is just dumb. The ideal way to get something great is to let a good writer and director go in the direction they want...that's how DC struck gold with Christopher Nolan and Batman, they gave him complete freedom, something Raimi never had.

[namisgr]

To my way of thinking, MC is less problematic that post-production wear like spine stress and creasing.

 

How can missing pieces or tears be less of a defect than creases?

 

But you could make an argument that a Marvel chip out of a cover is different than a chip caused by wear or abuse.

 

Ugly is ugly whether your momma made you that way or somebody beat you later on with an ugly stick.

 

Some collectors don't consider Marvel chipping to be ugly, at least when it's minor. To me, it looks alot better than spine stresses, corner creases, or interior cover edge tanning:

 

[showcase22gr1959]

There are many factors contributing to this downdraft. First, we have seen unprecedented gains for high grades 9.2-9.8 comics across the border in the last five years. The collector/buyer mentality is to have the highest graded copy possible. It became a collecting frenzy to own the high grade/best grades and this lead to further rising prices. They were too confident that the price will hold and they also believe not many other high grade copies will surface. Secondly, the market saw these rising prices and it became speculation and greed. Hence, the buyer/collector chase books to the extreme. When the recession began, Golden Age, Silver Age, Bronze age market did not peak till fall of 2009. I see the Mound City auction in fall as the peak for SA ad BA. This time also coincide with the peak in pressing comics. Pressing comics has cause a major blow in high grades and especially 9.2-9.6 because of further increase in supply it has cause. Also during that fall, I sense a million dollar comic sale is inevitable which eventually lead to the three different million dollar comic sales early this year. It is definitely not the time to sell at these depress prices and it depends on ones' situation if he or she has to sell to raise funds. On the positive note, I see price recovery in the long term, but I don't see prices will recovering at the peak level in many books. Nevertheless, there are still many high potential books out there, so do your homework.

 

 

 

 

[mysterio]

Some collectors don't consider Marvel chipping to be ugly, at least when it's minor. To me, it looks alot better than spine stresses, corner creases, or interior cover edge tanning

 

+1

[fantastic_four]

Some collectors don't consider Marvel chipping to be ugly, at least when it's minor. To me, it looks alot better than spine stresses, corner creases, or interior cover edge tanning:

 

I'll grant tanning (not dust shadows), but why stresses and creases? Tears and chips cover a greater surface area and they're more structurally invasive. Your JIM #85's chip doesn't look bad because of the light color of the cover...a crease in that same area would look even better and be virtually invisible.

[namisgr]

Some collectors don't consider Marvel chipping to be ugly, at least when it's minor. To me, it looks alot better than spine stresses, corner creases, or interior cover edge tanning:

 

I'll grant tanning (not dust shadows), but why stresses and creases? Tears and chips cover a greater surface area and they're more structurally invasive.

 

Because stresses and creases are signs of wear from human mishandling, whereas chips were present when the book was first placed on the newstand for sale. Same thing applies to staples. While I'd much rather have staples placed right along the spine where they belong, when they're on the front or back cover a bit they don't detract from eye appeal to the same degree that stress lines, creases, and loss of cover whiteness do.

[mysterio]

Some collectors don't consider Marvel chipping to be ugly, at least when it's minor. To me, it looks alot better than spine stresses, corner creases, or interior cover edge tanning:

 

I'll grant tanning (not dust shadows), but why stresses and creases? Tears and chips cover a greater surface area and they're more structurally invasive.

 

Because stresses and creases are signs of wear from human mishandling, whereas chips were present when the book was first placed on the newstand for sale. Same thing applies to staples. While I'd much rather have staples placed right along the spine where they belong, when they're on the front or back cover a bit they don't detract from eye appeal to the same degree that stress lines, creases, and loss of cover whiteness do.

 

I couldn't agree more! (thumbs u

[namisgr]

Back to the discussion of the ongoing correction, I think it can be summarized in one word: oversupply.

 

When supply is very low, comics that are desirable are still commanding high and, in many cases, record prices. Look at how the JIMs fared in the July Link auction. Many set new GPA highs because it was the first time in four years that any high grade JIM run had been offered for sale, and the title is highly sought after. Yes, a few of the issues were speculated to record prices based on their potential for upgrading, but even the examples with no chance of being upgraded did extremely well.

 

The sagging economy is probably playing a part, but the truly scarce books are still bringing out the big bucks regardless.

[ChasingKingKirby]

I followed about a 100 auctions, including a bunch of spidey's and the JIM's. Seemed to me that prices were much stronger in this auction than the last couple. I bought a half dozen books under GPA, but none of them were nose-bleed grade books.

[fantastic_four]

Because stresses and creases are signs of wear from human mishandling, whereas chips were present when the book was first placed on the newstand for sale.

 

What's that got to do with eye appeal in the slightest? If we're talking about a book with a defect that's on EVERY single copy, that's one thing, but in the case of chipping, you'd really pay more for your JIM #85 with the chip out than an identical copy with an identically-sized piece missing that resulted from handling?

 

Downgrading more for a crease than a missing chip is one of the most extreme grading opinions I've ever heard...it's even more extreme than CGC actually grades, they downgrade more for missing production chips than handling creases. Can you go into more detail about what's behind that? It's something separate from visual aesthetics, it's some sort of emotional sentiment or nostalgia that's weird to me...I'm not seeing why the mistakes of an out-of-tune printing press are for some reason more desirable.

[fantastic_four]

The sagging economy is probably playing a part, but the truly scarce books are still bringing out the big bucks regardless.

 

The people who buy nosebleed books are less likely to be affected by the economy. It hasn't touched me or affected my buying much at all other than to decrease the amount I've been having to pay the last year.

[namisgr]

If you hate production flaws like chips so much, then I gather you also hate other production flaws that detract from eye appeal, like crooked cover wraps, misplaced staples, bindery tears and the like. While they are very important aspects of eye appeal to me, I find stress lines and paper-breaking creases even more detracting. Another pet peeve of mine is yellowing of cover paper - no matter how perfect a book's structure may be, it still looks to me like the old newspapers left in the garage when the cover paper has yellowed.

 

I think you and I differ simply by matters of degree.

 

Here's another extreme example I break out frequently: simply the nicest 7.0 I've ever seen, considering that the book looks exactly like it did its very first day on the newstand. It's pristine and stunning to me, even with the extensive Marvel pre-chipping. Far, far nicer than a 7.0 with a honking two inch corner crease down at the bottom right, or another with over a dozen half-inch stress lines running up and down the spine.

 

[fantastic_four]

If you hate production flaws like chips so much, then I gather you also hate other production flaws that detract from eye appeal, like crooked cover wraps, misplaced staples, bindery tears and the like. While they are very important aspects of eye appeal to me, I find stress lines and paper-breaking creases even more detracting. Another pet peeve of mine is yellowing of cover paper - no matter how perfect a book's structure may be, it still looks to me like the old newspapers left in the garage when the cover paper has yellowed.

 

I think you and I differ simply by matters of degree.

 

I don't especially hate production flaws, I hate flaws, period, and don't care what caused them.

 

As for differing opinions, knowledge is like a forest we're all wandering around in, trying to get a feel for the layout of the trees. If we follow each other's voices, we'll usually come to the same place in the forest, although unfortunately most people tend to be unmotivated--or just too arrogant (that's not you in the slightest)--to put out the effort to lead other people to where they're at. I've attempted to debate this before and you're the first person I can recall who agrees with CGC's stance on downgrading less for production defects, so if you'll keep shouting, I'm interested in finding out where you've wandered off to in the forest...maybe it's a better place to be!

[namisgr]

Cool. Check out the JIM90 above and tell me that you don't think CGC detracts too much for pre-chipping.

[fantastic_four]

Here's another extreme example I break out frequently: simply the nicest 7.0 I've ever seen, considering that the book looks exactly like it did its very first day on the newstand. It's pristine and stunning to me, even with the extensive Marvel pre-chipping. Far, far nicer than a 7.0 with a honking two inch corner crease down at the bottom right, or another with over a dozen half-inch stress lines running up and down the spine.

 

That JIM 90 is just a rare set of defects whether they be production-related or handling-related...I'd be really interested in seeing a bigger scan of it to compare to the infamous AF15 CGC 8.0 with lots of chipping down the right edge, your 7.0 looks better at a distance than that book. I totally agree that mid-grade books with a low number tough-to-spot defects are far more visually appealing than ones with a bunch of visible defects--Roy's current CGC 6.5 book is another great example of that, although his one large, nearly-invisible defect is handling related.

[fantastic_four]

Cool. Check out the JIM90 above and tell me that you don't think CGC detracts too much for pre-chipping.

 

Tough to see what's a chip. Biggest thing I can see is the lower-right up a bit below the middle-right...can't tell if that's a chip or a big semicircular crease, I'm guessing pre-chipping based upon your description, but I've never seen a pre-chip that large.