Market corrections in September Clink auction results?

[jkrk]

To my way of thinking, MC is less problematic that post-production wear like spine stress and creasing.

 

How can missing pieces or tears be less of a defect than creases?

 

But you could make an argument that a Marvel chip out of a cover is different than a chip caused by wear or abuse.

 

Ugly is ugly whether your momma made you that way or somebody beat you later on with an ugly stick.

 

Some collectors don't consider Marvel chipping to be ugly, at least when it's minor. To me, it looks alot better than spine stresses, corner creases, or interior cover edge tanning:

 

 

I really don't mind slight chipping or a small pc off the corner on any book VG or below.

 

I consider any book above 4.0 over graded if those defects are present.

 

 

 

 

[VintageComics]

There are many factors contributing to this downdraft. First, we have seen unprecedented gains for high grades 9.2-9.8 comics across the border in the last five years. The collector/buyer mentality is to have the highest graded copy possible. It became a collecting frenzy to own the high grade/best grades and this lead to further rising prices. They were too confident that the price will hold and they also believe not many other high grade copies will surface. Secondly, the market saw these rising prices and it became speculation and greed. Hence, the buyer/collector chase books to the extreme. When the recession began, Golden Age, Silver Age, Bronze age market did not peak till fall of 2009. I see the Mound City auction in fall as the peak for SA ad BA. This time also coincide with the peak in pressing comics. Pressing comics has cause a major blow in high grades and especially 9.2-9.6 because of further increase in supply it has cause. Also during that fall, I sense a million dollar comic sale is inevitable which eventually lead to the three different million dollar comic sales early this year. It is definitely not the time to sell at these depress prices and it depends on ones' situation if he or she has to sell to raise funds. On the positive note, I see price recovery in the long term, but I don't see prices will recovering at the peak level in many books. Nevertheless, there are still many high potential books out there, so do your homework.

 

 

The state of the economy, with the slowing of cash flow has a lot to do with it.

 

You have a combination of plenty of supply (lots of books coming to market) and a drop in demand (average middle class people with less disposable income) that has created the "perfect storm" market that we are in now.

 

 

[jkrk]

There are many factors contributing to this downdraft. First, we have seen unprecedented gains for high grades 9.2-9.8 comics across the border in the last five years. The collector/buyer mentality is to have the highest graded copy possible. It became a collecting frenzy to own the high grade/best grades and this lead to further rising prices. They were too confident that the price will hold and they also believe not many other high grade copies will surface. Secondly, the market saw these rising prices and it became speculation and greed. Hence, the buyer/collector chase books to the extreme. When the recession began, Golden Age, Silver Age, Bronze age market did not peak till fall of 2009. I see the Mound City auction in fall as the peak for SA ad BA. This time also coincide with the peak in pressing comics. Pressing comics has cause a major blow in high grades and especially 9.2-9.6 because of further increase in supply it has cause. Also during that fall, I sense a million dollar comic sale is inevitable which eventually lead to the three different million dollar comic sales early this year. It is definitely not the time to sell at these depress prices and it depends on ones' situation if he or she has to sell to raise funds. On the positive note, I see price recovery in the long term, but I don't see prices will recovering at the peak level in many books. Nevertheless, there are still many high potential books out there, so do your homework.

 

 

The state of the economy, with the slowing of cash flow has a lot to do with it.

 

You have a combination of plenty of supply (lots of books coming to market) and a drop in demand (average middle class people with less disposable income) that has created the "perfect storm" market that we are in now.

 

 

Yep. (thumbs u

 

In addition I was surprised that CC and CL held auctions on the same day.

 

I wonder what impact the overlapping auctions had on the final results?

 

 

[showcase22gr1959]

To my way of thinking, MC is less problematic that post-production wear like spine stress and creasing.

 

How can missing pieces or tears be less of a defect than creases?

 

But you could make an argument that a Marvel chip out of a cover is different than a chip caused by wear or abuse.

 

Ugly is ugly whether your momma made you that way or somebody beat you later on with an ugly stick.

 

Some collectors don't consider Marvel chipping to be ugly, at least when it's minor. To me, it looks alot better than spine stresses, corner creases, or interior cover edge tanning:

 

 

Your JIM 85 is the perfect example of a slight Marvel chipping which has great eye appeal which beats out all the flaws you've have mentioned. I detest books with extreme Marvel chippings. This is a good example of the ugliest AF15 6.0 out there and I'm not surprise of the soft price in received on Comiclink. A 6.0

 

[showcase22gr1959]

There are many factors contributing to this downdraft. First, we have seen unprecedented gains for high grades 9.2-9.8 comics across the border in the last five years. The collector/buyer mentality is to have the highest graded copy possible. It became a collecting frenzy to own the high grade/best grades and this lead to further rising prices. They were too confident that the price will hold and they also believe not many other high grade copies will surface. Secondly, the market saw these rising prices and it became speculation and greed. Hence, the buyer/collector chase books to the extreme. When the recession began, Golden Age, Silver Age, Bronze age market did not peak till fall of 2009. I see the Mound City auction in fall as the peak for SA ad BA. This time also coincide with the peak in pressing comics. Pressing comics has cause a major blow in high grades and especially 9.2-9.6 because of further increase in supply it has cause. Also during that fall, I sense a million dollar comic sale is inevitable which eventually lead to the three different million dollar comic sales early this year. It is definitely not the time to sell at these depress prices and it depends on ones' situation if he or she has to sell to raise funds. On the positive note, I see price recovery in the long term, but I don't see prices will recovering at the peak level in many books. Nevertheless, there are still many high potential books out there, so do your homework.

 

 

The state of the economy, with the slowing of cash flow has a lot to do with it.

 

You have a combination of plenty of supply (lots of books coming to market) and a drop in demand (average middle class people with less disposable income) that has created the "perfect storm" market that we are in now.

 

 

Yeah, there is a never ending supply now for sure. Let's look a the bright side. The coin market went in cycles and peak in 1980's and when charging back in the early 2000's. We may have to wait a long time for this cycle for most of our comic investment. Well than again, if one pays extreme prices for books and their prices have fallen over 70%...it may well be dead money.

[VintageComics]

Count me as another person who doesn't mind Marvel chipping.

 

 

Obviously the total eye appeal is important, but I don't consider that AF #15 ugly, personally. Maybe it has to do with being a Marvel Zombie.

 

[ChasingKingKirby]

Count me as another person who doesn't mind Marvel chipping.

 

 

Obviously the total eye appeal is important, but I don't consider that AF #15 ugly, personally. Maybe it has to do with being a Marvel Zombie.

 

 

Count me in as one who isn't horribly concerned about chipping either. Here are two of my keeper JIMs.

 

 

[VintageComics]

Funny, you, FF, Namisgr and Mysterio all say the same thing and I think I have a similar taste to funny books to all of you. Wonder if it's something genetic?

 

[chrisco37]

Funny, you, FF, Namisgr and Mysterio all say the same thing and I think I have a similar taste to funny books to all of you. Wonder if it's something genetic?

 

 

Are you saying you sired those guys?

[mysterio]

[mysterio]

Funny, you, FF, Namisgr and Mysterio all say the same thing and I think I have a similar taste to funny books to all of you. Wonder if it's something genetic?

 

 

It may be generational, or it may just be a matter of esthetic preference. To me condition has always been relative to what the book looked like on the shelf off the presses. Chipping was a part of the process at that point in time, so I have never felt that minor chipping that doesn't detract from the overall look of the book was that much of a problem. I definitely think that it shouldn't be penalized nearly as much as CGC typically does. Of course major hunks out of the cover is a problem, but a bit of light chipping is so much more preferable to me than wear caused by handling.

[ChasingKingKirby]

Funny, you, FF, Namisgr and Mysterio all say the same thing and I think I have a similar taste to funny books to all of you. Wonder if it's something genetic?

 

 

It may be generational, or it may just be a matter of esthetic preference. To me condition has always been relative to what the book looked like on the shelf off the presses. Chipping was a part of the process at that point in time, so I have never felt that minor chipping that doesn't detract from the overall look of the book was that much of a problem. I definitely think that it shouldn't be penalized nearly as much as CGC typically does. Of course major hunks out of the cover is a problem, but a bit of light chipping is so much more preferable to me than wear caused by handling.

 

Yup. That's exactly how I feel about it. Though in a way, I'm glad CGC does penalize as much as they do. No way I could have bought those two JIMs I posted if they hadn't knocked them down a grade or so.

[mysterio]

Yup. That's exactly how I feel about it. Though in a way, I'm glad CGC does penalize as much as they do. No way I could have bought those two JIMs I posted if they hadn't knocked them down a grade or so.

 

Well, there is that bonus. It really kills me on pre-hero Marvels, as so many of those books had chipping and get just slammed by CGC. I've seen books that look like they should have been at least 2 full points higher that could only be explained by a chipping deduction. Some of these were chipped on the BACK cover only, which is just criminal as far as I'm concerned. I understand being technical, but come on.

[VintageComics]

To me condition has always been relative to what the book looked like on the shelf off the presses. Chipping was a part of the process at that point in time, so I have never felt that minor chipping that doesn't detract from the overall look of the book was that much of a problem.

 

Agreed!

 

 

[ChasingKingKirby]

To me condition has always been relative to what the book looked like on the shelf off the presses. Chipping was a part of the process at that point in time, so I have never felt that minor chipping that doesn't detract from the overall look of the book was that much of a problem.

 

Agreed!

 

 

Hey, maybe we are related... Where were you in January of 1970?

[aardvark88]

Cool. tell me that you don't think CGC detracts too much for pre-chipping.

 

Would say Cgc's grading has changed over the last 10(?) years re SA chipping. I remember seeing the White Mtn ASM #1 Cgc about 7.5 or 8.0 with about 4 inches of moderately deep chipping on right edge. This was an early slabbed comic, and I said, "I don't see a vf-" when I saw it at SDCC. Then again maybe the overwhelming whiteness and freshness overrided the chips and blue ink year date on front cover?

[Peter Loves Gwen]

If you hate production flaws like chips so much, then I gather you also hate other production flaws that detract from eye appeal, like crooked cover wraps, misplaced staples, bindery tears and the like. While they are very important aspects of eye appeal to me, I find stress lines and paper-breaking creases even more detracting. Another pet peeve of mine is yellowing of cover paper - no matter how perfect a book's structure may be, it still looks to me like the old newspapers left in the garage when the cover paper has yellowed.

 

I think you and I differ simply by matters of degree.

 

I don't especially hate production flaws, I hate flaws, period, and don't care what caused them.

 

As for differing opinions, knowledge is like a forest we're all wandering around in, trying to get a feel for the layout of the trees. If we follow each other's voices, we'll usually come to the same place in the forest, although unfortunately most people tend to be unmotivated--or just too arrogant (that's not you in the slightest)--to put out the effort to lead other people to where they're at. I've attempted to debate this before and you're the first person I can recall who agrees with CGC's stance on downgrading less for production defects, so if you'll keep shouting, I'm interested in finding out where you've wandered off to in the forest...maybe it's a better place to be!

 

I see marvel chipping as not just a printing defect, but a visual indication of the condition of the paper. Thus I agree with CGC hitting most of those hard. More specifically I do hope that they grade the books based on the paper condition, not just whether there are visible chunks or chips or pre-chipping there.

 

My unrestored AF15 for example has no chipping, the paper is great and safe to handle. But a lot of people will not like mine as a 6.0 or whatever in that range it gets. Bob will avoid it greatly because it has a noticeable crease along the top edge, a good sized half oval crease. That clearly stands out a lot more than marvel chipping or random spine stresses.

 

For the value of these books, the overall appearance and paper quality should be the main priorities. Regards,

[VintageComics]

To me condition has always been relative to what the book looked like on the shelf off the presses. Chipping was a part of the process at that point in time, so I have never felt that minor chipping that doesn't detract from the overall look of the book was that much of a problem.

 

Agreed!

 

 

Hey, maybe we are related... Where were you in January of 1970?

 

 

About here:

 

[ChasingKingKirby]

To me condition has always been relative to what the book looked like on the shelf off the presses. Chipping was a part of the process at that point in time, so I have never felt that minor chipping that doesn't detract from the overall look of the book was that much of a problem.

 

Agreed!

 

 

Hey, maybe we are related... Where were you in January of 1970?

 

 

About here:

 

 

 

Well there you go. Guess the more appropriate question is, where was your dad?

[fantastic_four]

Would say Cgc's grading has changed over the last 10(?) years re SA chipping. I remember seeing the White Mtn ASM #1 Cgc about 7.5 or 8.0 with about 4 inches of moderately deep chipping on right edge. This was an early slabbed comic, and I said, "I don't see a vf-" when I saw it at SDCC. Then again maybe the overwhelming whiteness and freshness overrided the chips and blue ink year date on front cover?

 

You sure it was a White Mountain copy? There are multiples in the collection, but I hadn't heard of a lower-graded brother to this one. I suspect you're thinking of the Pacific Coast Amazing Fantasy 15, which is a CGC 6.5 with deep right-edge chipping, it was slabbed early in CGC's life and hasn't surfaced since.