Clean and Press Bother Anyone?

[joe_collector]

 

Insert Banner Jibberish

 

 

Yo banner, I simply posted an observation, which you naturally read into with your CGC Cult mentality. You may think this growing-by-leaps-and-bounds "clean and press" situation is humorous, but I do not.

[drbanner]

It's a joke...find your funny-bone (no, not that one!)...not that you were ever a big CGC buyer anyway, or were you mis-leading us this whole time!!

[Ze-man]

Red,

 

It seems like you have so sort of fatal attraction issue with the Green River Daredevil #11, as almost every one of your posts talks about it. I buy bronze age books and I have had a difficult time finding sellers who I can trust on ebay. Your constant impicating of Jason Ewert is tiring, as the guy is one of the few dealers I have been able to find who I can say it has been abosolute pleasure to deal with. The guy has over 1100 feedbacks with no neutrals or negatives, and every person I have ever talked to speaks of this guy in the absolute highest positive terms. He gets books that no one else does. He always sells unrestored blue label slabs, as to present a product with the least chance of restoration as possible (due to CGC restoration check). Have you ever dealt with the guy? Have you ever emailed the guy to ask him what happened to the book? Maybe it got pulled for a reason. Maybe he still has the book and would be willing to sell it to you. Maybe he saw an undergraded book that he decided to roll the dice on to obtain a higher grade and won out. Does this make him greedy? No - it makes him smart. And to further state that if the Green River Daredevil #11 was resubmitted to receive a higher grade, that EVERY book Ewert sells MUST have been cleaned and/or pressed is absolutely ludicrous. What, do you think he pays $150.00 a pop to Susan or Nelson to send every Silver Age and Bronze age book off to get it pressed professionally? It doesn't sound like the guy would be in business very long, as he would lose money on nearly every post-1965 book he sells. Let me ask you - If you had a 9.4 book in your collection that a high level dealer inspected and told you point blank the book was undergraded and that you should resubmit to receive a higher grade, are you telling me you would refuse to do so? - that you would just let it sit there because resubmitting a book is a no-no? Heck no - you would resubmit it to receive the book's new, proper, higher grade to cash in too! Does this make you greedy? No. It makes you smart. If you have a problem with CGC allowing proper pressing on blue label books, then why even buy a blue label book ever again? You know this is the CGC's policy and has been ALL ALONG. By purchasing a blue label book, you are acknowledging that the book may have been pressed at one time and that you are ok with it. If not, then don't even attempt to purchase a blue label book because EVERY blue label book could have been professionally pressed! Stick with raw books only.

 

 

Caltenator why would you make a new account just to blast Redhook?

With your knowledge of the market, and people in it, you are obviously not new to the boards, or comics and its a little to plain to see that you created this accnt to make this post.

why hide behind a shill?

seems lame, and cowardly not to say what you feel with your real accnt..

If you have a beef with him, it is fine to let him have it, blast away, speak your mind etc..., but at least have the courage to leave your real name.

 

And if you actually are a new member as of yesterday, and have never been to this board, then please accept my humble appoligies.

 

Please tell me I am wrong.

 

 

Zeman

[Red Hook]

Red,

 

It seems like you have so sort of fatal attraction issue with the Green River Daredevil #11, as almost every one of your posts talks about it. I buy bronze age books and I have had a difficult time finding sellers who I can trust on ebay. Your constant impicating of Jason Ewert is tiring, as the guy is one of the few dealers I have been able to find who I can say it has been abosolute pleasure to deal with. The guy has over 1100 feedbacks with no neutrals or negatives, and every person I have ever talked to speaks of this guy in the absolute highest positive terms. He gets books that no one else does. He always sells unrestored blue label slabs, as to present a product with the least chance of restoration as possible (due to CGC restoration check). Have you ever dealt with the guy? Have you ever emailed the guy to ask him what happened to the book? Maybe it got pulled for a reason. Maybe he still has the book and would be willing to sell it to you. Maybe he saw an undergraded book that he decided to roll the dice on to obtain a higher grade and won out. Does this make him greedy? No - it makes him smart. And to further state that if the Green River Daredevil #11 was resubmitted to receive a higher grade, that EVERY book Ewert sells MUST have been cleaned and/or pressed is absolutely ludicrous. What, do you think he pays $150.00 a pop to Susan or Nelson to send every Silver Age and Bronze age book off to get it pressed professionally? It doesn't sound like the guy would be in business very long, as he would lose money on nearly every post-1965 book he sells. Let me ask you - If you had a 9.4 book in your collection that a high level dealer inspected and told you point blank the book was undergraded and that you should resubmit to receive a higher grade, are you telling me you would refuse to do so? - that you would just let it sit there because resubmitting a book is a no-no? Heck no - you would resubmit it to receive the book's new, proper, higher grade to cash in too! Does this make you greedy? No. It makes you smart. If you have a problem with CGC allowing proper pressing on blue label books, then why even buy a blue label book ever again? You know this is the CGC's policy and has been ALL ALONG. By purchasing a blue label book, you are acknowledging that the book may have been pressed at one time and that you are ok with it. If not, then don't even attempt to purchase a blue label book because EVERY blue label book could have been professionally pressed! Stick with raw books only.

 

Hi Caltenator,

 

Welcome to the boards. That's quite a mouthful for a first post! I'm honored that this topic should draw you out and get you to contribute.

 

Anyway, to address your points, and there are quite a few.....

 

1) I am using the Green River Daredevil #11 as an example,... calling it a fatal attraction is a bit over-dramatic. And to presume that every one of my posts talks about it is wildly inaccurate. But since you're a newbie, I'll forgive you. And it didn't take long for another one, the DD #18 on Heritage to show up, so I'll probably be boring you about that one for a while too!

 

2) You may find the subject matter tiring, but there seem to be a few people that find it interesting. If this topic bores you, avoid the thread. As a bronzie, I'm sure that there are more than a couple of Hulk 181 threads on the boards that you will find absolutely fascinating!

 

3) I have nothing against Jason Ewert. I don't know him. He doesn't know me. I was as suprised as anyone when the auction for the Daredevil under discussion was pulled minutes after the information about it being a resub came to light. I wasn't intending to sabotage his auction. And I was not the one who accused him of pressing the book. And I do agree with you on you one point, it was pulled for a reason. Since you have a relationship with him and are so quick to defend him, have you e-mailed him? Are you the least bit curious?

 

4) It was actually suggested to me to call him and make him an offer for the book offline. I refused to do this because I felt it would be taking advantage of the situation. That would have been contrary to the point I was trying to make. I offered to buy it from him in a very tongue-in-cheek fashion in the original thread.

 

5) This is a public forum. It was obvious JE had read the thread or at least been alerted to it. He is free to come on and address the implications of this discussion if he feels it is in his interests. He hasn't. I don't blame him.

 

Of course a seller has every right to maximize his sales dollar,... in an ethical manner. The flip side of that is that as a buyer, I have every right to kick the tires, and make sure I know what I'm getting and if it has a grading history or not. Especially when the dollar value of the transaction starts to get up there.

 

6) His number of feedbacks has nothing to do with this. It's irrelevant to this particular discussion. Hammer (do you know who he is?) only has three negs.

 

7) I am sure JE is a wonderful, charming, decent human being. I should never question any of his auctions. In fact, maybe I should send him $5,000 or $10,000 in cash right now and just let him pick out books he think I would like and send them on to me.

 

Sorry kid, I don't completely trust anybody when it comes to transactions like this. A fool and his money are soon parted!

 

8) Please show me where I said that every book he sells must have been cleaned or pressed. In fact, please show me where I said that any book he sold could be proven to have been cleaned and/or pressed. Again, the original owner of the DD 11, in both it's raw state and in it's 9.4 slabbed state presented the opinion that it had been pressed. This grew into a general discussion about the ethics of pressing, not a slam-fest of Jason Ewert.

 

9) Don't assume I would automatically feel compelled to resubmit a book in my collection that I felt had been undergraded. In fact the DD #11 9.2 I own might be a 9.4. It's sitting right where it is. But that is simply a matter of personal choice. Everyone is different. How does that make one smart or not smart? Different people collect for different reasons. I don't sit there every morning and total up the value of my collection. Most collectors don't do that.

 

10) For the majority of buyers, the fact that CGC thinks it's ok to press a book is not known. Aside from the occasional posting here about that, CGC doesn't exactly spread the word about that. I do NOT assume every blue label book is pressed. I would prefer NOT to pay extra for a book that got pumped up a grade artificially by being pressed. Do I have special Pressing-detection glasses I can whip up and tell for sure? Nope. But I am going to try to get better at it. It's not impossible to tell.

 

11) I'm not saying that pressing should be outlawed. And if CGC really thinks its ok, then how come no one every talks about it, and how come Ewert or Nelson never come forward and say, "Yes, dammit, we press the books, they are done professionally, and they look great!" They don't say anything because they know that if given a choice, the majority of buyers prefer NOT to have them. There is a stigma attached to pressing. Just because CGC lets it fly, doesn't mean it isn't restoration.

 

12) I realize that anytime I buy a book, raw or slabbed I take some risk. The risk is higher with raw books. I've already been down that road. If you had read more of my posts, you would realize that I support CGC. I like the product. That doesn't mean I don't think they can do things better. I just sent off a dozen raw Green Rivers to them for slabbing. They're not going up for sale. I want them protected, I like the way they present in the slab. That's it. I trust them to do a great job.

 

Anyway, I felt it was important to address your points. You are certainly welcome to disagree. Different strokes for different folks.

 

One final question.....if you knew beforehand that a book had been resubmitted and pressed and offered at a higher grade for twice the price, would you have any hesitation at all in laying down your hard earned dough? If that doesn't bother you, that's cool. It's your money.

 

And again, welcome to the boards. Where you from dude?

[joe_collector]

It's a joke...find your funny-bone (no, not that one!)...not that you were ever a big CGC buyer anyway, or were you mis-leading us this whole time!!

 

I'm certainly not a "big buyer" in terms of $$$, as I'm really not comfortable slapping any significant amount of money into something as new and volatile as graded comics.

 

On the other hand, I do have 2.5 CGC boxes of slabs and I am usually in there bidding on CGC Byrne copies when they come up.

 

My problem with the practice is that I do not want to pay Guide multiples for a VF comic that has been clean-and-pressed into a CGC 9.4 slab. If I was only interested in the label, I could buy a book press myself and start magically upgrading my "VF books with non-color breaking creases" into CGC NM candidates.

 

But that's just wrong, and I don't buy or sell using deceptive practices, and I don't like the idea that some dealers are using that "happy accident" of the Church collection's long-term pressing to validate artifical clean-and-pressing to their Key issues.

 

They ARE NOT the same thing. One was a lucky act of nature, while the other is a premeditated scam.

[drbanner]

Be real here Joe...how many cleaned-and-pressed CGC 9.4 Byrne X-men do you think are out there?

 

9.4's are hardly worth the time to get slabbed to begin with, so I seriously doubt someone is going to take the time/$/energy to have them cleaned and pressed. As the Wiz points out, you might be at a bigger risk buying raw, and you know that you're definitely at a bigger risk of them not being true 9.4's!!

[joe_collector]

Be real here Joe...how many cleaned-and-pressed CGC 9.4 Byrne X-men do you think are out there?

 

I agree, but that's not all I buy.

 

For example, I have HG CGC copies of other faves of mine (that cost a lot more) and that's really the area I'm going to stop buying at. There are way too many Silver and Bronze CGC 9.4 Keys with clean-and-press written all over them to make it anything but a long-term sucker buy.

 

So yeah, I'll keep bidding on my CGC 9.4 X-Men books, but I will run far away when I see those "pancaked" CGC 9.4's of Bronze and Silver keys.

[drbanner]

In that case, you're fooked!! Can't buy 'em slabbed 'cause you're paranoid about them being pressed/cleaned, can't buy 'em raw b/c they could just as easily have been pressed/cleaned/ct'ed, or more likely...overgraded.

[caltenator-migration]

Thanks Red,

 

You make some good points. My only beef is that we all DO know that CGC does allow properly pressed books to receive a blue label and yet we are all up in arms when we see books for sale as new higher grades when they were originally lower grades. Why? And why constant anger and the need to uncover every book that ever gets upgraded? We are all aware of the policy and some smart sellers are taking advantage of it. Are we angry and jealous that we weren't the first to buy the book in the first place, send it to Susan or Nelson to press, and then submit it to the CGC for a HOPEFULLY higher grade (remember - nothing is ever 100%)? It is kinda' like you have to like or dislike the CGC as a whole or none at all. This isn't a buffet line where we are able to pick and choose those things we like about the CGC (i.e. - we send in a book out of our collection to the CGC and receive a higher grade than we expected - we never complain about that) and rail against the CGC about their policies that make us uncomfortable when others are cashing in on them and making money (i.e. - properly pressing books). We do know the policies in place. Some people take advantage of the rules in place and make $, some sit around the water cooler and complain. I as a collector have to decide whether CGC as a WHOLE is worthwhile or not. Not accept parts of it and reject others. My alternative is to buy books raw off ebay and hope they are graded correctly and not tampered with based on the seller's say so. Sorry, but I like CGC as the best alternative. By collecting CGC graded books (I collect bronze and some silver), I know that there is a chance that some of the books may have originally been a lower grade and pressed to a higher grade. I accept this because I knew CGC's policy on this all along and still decided to part with my money to buy CGC books because they were the best alternative out there. What I do find humerous is that a lot of people think anyone can do this. I don't know much about restoration, but I do know the folks at CGC are as good as they come and that they will catch when a book has been tampered with probably 99.9% of the time. The thought of any of us board members being able to buy an industrial press and attempting to do the same thing is probably going to get caught as a butcher job by CGC every time. One has to use a professional, and there are only about 3 people who exist that can pull it off without CGC detecting it. I know Steve's grading and restoration detection when he was a collector before CGC and and I will tell you that NOTHING gets past him (ok we have read about the Bat #11). Add to him the restoration detection experts on staff and it adds up to anyone's hope to try and start pressing their own books for profit as a plan of failure.

 

And as far as my background, I am not new to comics but am new to these boards. I have collected for about 9 years and was directed to this board from a friend. I don't know what a "shill" is but my name is Keith, what is yours?

[Red Hook]

Oy! Too many questions in one post!

 

Ok, one more time.....

 

First stop with the generalizations.....they weaken your arguements.

 

1) Sellers are taking advantage of the fact that CGC does not advertise to the average customer that they are ok with "properly" done pressing. The average Ebay customer has no idea that they book they buy might be pressed. Yep, you think you know their policies because you've read the boards, but try and find anything about it on their website. The average consumer of slabbed books is not on these boards.

 

2) I'm not angry.

 

3) I'm not jealous.

 

4) I would never send a book to Susan or Nelson to press.

 

5) I have never complained about the grades I have received from CGC.

 

6) Yep, CGC is the best grader right now, but they could be better. It's not a perfect system. Why so complacent dude? You should show more spunk! And I absolute do reserve the right to pick and choose the things I like about CGC. Why is that so hard for you to grasp?

 

7) Again, I am really talking about the high-end market where the dollars get crazy....9.4 and up in the Silver sector. I don't know squat about GA books. So I am not interested in outing every resubbed book. I just want the information made available to me so I can judge for myself. There is no reason why that info shouldn't be public.

 

8) If you put so much trust in CGC, then why would you ever bring up the fact that they could be wrong on grading a book? According to you, they never make a mistake? You state that the folks at CGC are as good as they come and they are able to catch 99.9% of all restoration. Yet, they could be wrong about simply grading a book. You lost me there.

 

9) I respect the fact that you have collected for 9 years. I appreciate your opinion. You don't want the security blanket of the CGC label questioned. I just want to see CGC get better. If I didn't really like what they do, I wouldn't be wasting all this energy on the issue!

 

Brad

 

PS How do you know Steve from before CGC?

[comicwiz]

Be real here Joe...how many cleaned-and-pressed CGC 9.4 Byrne X-men do you think are out there?

 

I don't mean to single anyone out here, and certainly not for any reasons of agreeing with one person over the other, however, I do believe that it is very naive of anyone of us to believe that the practice of pressing/cleaning is exclusive to any particular era in comics. In fact, it is my belief that there will be a much higher degree of incidence in pressing/cleaning practices with modern and Bronze-age books, specifically within the high-grade, high-premium key strata.

 

In the last twenty or so years, there have been at least 5 major developments in the comic hobby which have made the practice of pressing/cleaning not only amenable to the concept of attaining higher premiums vis-a-vis higher grades, but an almost overnight acceptance of practices designed to cosmetically improve the appearance of a comic, without disclosing those alterations to the potential buyer. These 5 developments are as follows (and no necessarily appearing in a chronological order):

 

The first is the market depression of the 90's. Never before had so much been invested and lost by a collective comprised of dealers and comic collectors and speculators alike. The specs, with barely any time or energy to retract money transfused into the hobby cut their losses, and vowed never to return, while the collectors unabashadly hid their anger and resentment behind the cliche that the harm was minimized partially by a collecting interest that was exclusive to story, art, and an emotional tie to the hobby itself.

 

The economics, and sad reality of what has been coined the "crash" of the 90's was that a number of dealers and local retail establishments were left holding several thousand bins of backstock that had very little potential for markup, let alone resale. With the benefit and of knowing firstand about 2 such cases, in both cases, the retailers were being forced to shut-down operations because creditors were breathing down their necks something fierce. Some of the more resourceful creditors that were owed money -- and in the examples I am citing, they were a carpenter by trade, and an electrician -- quietly, and amicably strongarmed the warehouse backstock in repayment for services rendered. For the most part, these were laymen -- proficient in their trade, and not entirely up-to-speed with the complexities of the comic collectors market. They might have understood some rudimentary priniciples regarding the potential for resale, but the thought of preserving these books and properly storing them was a viritually foreign concept.

 

The second is the discovery of these so-called "warehouse" finds by collectors/dealers. And in the cases cited above, these are primarily books ranging from the early-70's right up to the 90's. These were books that had been sitting in basements of either commercial property (abandoned by previous retail comic store), or in the case of creditors siezing in some shape or form for financial restitution, stored away in the basements of residential homes. Stockpiled, long-boxes, one on top of the other with no method or approach to conservation or preservation. And for the most part abandoned, and before their discovery, slowly recirculated into the market through newspaper ads or word of mouth. Books that have been virtually sitting for anywhere between 15-20 years, unbagged/unboarded. Aside from the environmental elements such as dust, the sheer volume of this backstock, lent to the incidence of cardboard boxes buckling by the sheer weight. Comic backstock, which for the most part, remained untouched, and conveniently hoarded by the previous owners by title/issue for retail restocking needs -- and on the downside, it was also comic backstock badly in need of attention. Backstock that could be leveraged in a profiteering manner -- given the opportune time and resources, these books with significant warping and dust shadowing just might well be brought back to their newstand "look".

 

The third was the doubling of NM values in the OPG in the new millenium for the Bronze-era heavyweights. An unparralleled price increase that was bound to arouse and elicit newfound interest in comics from that era. Suddenly, you had this marvelous opportunity to transfer some of the time and energy into correcting that horrid backstock, and if you worked at it long and hard enough, there would be an enormous prospect for monetary reward as repayment. Which brings us to the fourth major development, and I'm not so sure that the methodology itself could be dated at around the time of OPG price increase for BA keys, but the practice of pressing warped comics, and cleaning them for defects such as dust shadow certainly became a more widespread and accepted practice due to the monetary implications of revitalizing a BA key to a NM appearance. A practice that one might argue became popularized by both its accessibility, and a learning curve that could be licked with very little trial and error.

 

And finally, the geneis of CGC and eBay; -- one the one hand, the overnight sensation and interest generated by an online auction company which was putting person-to-person trading on the map -- an extraordinary development on its own; and on the other an impartial grading authority, whose services were badly in need in a market whch seemed pervious to drowning accusations of fraud and wrongdoing -- a chapter reserved exlsuvily for the thieves and malcontents who preyed on collectors by passing off cosmetically altered comics as unrestored gems. This resurgence and newfound interest in the comic hobby occured not only because of the synergy created from an online community joining collectors from different parts of the world, but primarily because of the confidence collectors had in CGC's impartial grading, and cutting-edge restoration checks.

 

And although many might argue that it is a conficence still enjoyed by many collectors today, it is my contention that in the emerging trend of pressed and cleaned comics, the CGC slab does present an advantage to decietful/greedy dealers. The CGC case conceals the comic, and in so doing, the incidence of a buyer cracking open the slab is drastically reduced by the grade on the label. In a market fascinated with attaining the highest possible grade, one might argue that as the score increases -- past the hyper-grade norm -- the buyer is even less inclined to crack open the slab and inspect the comic. Sadly, it isn't until a book (which has been pressed in an amateur fashion) reverts back to its original warping that the buyer becomes aware of this rather transparent form of alteration performed on their comic.

 

The point ought not be whether pressing/cleaning is an accepted practice in the blue label camp, but rather a practice which should be spurned and avoided in the NM or higher grades, and which should maintain full disclosure in VF or lower grade. And for the restoration followers, doesn't this pitch sound familiar? If such opinions and requests for disclosure are to continue falling on deaf ears, then the ensuing paradigmatic shift which WILL occur is the universal acceptance that pressing/cleaning is a form restoration. At stake is the future of comic collecting and our hobby as a whole.

[Red Hook]

Nice analysis! Really nice.

[drbanner]

I don't mean to single anyone out here, and certainly not for any reasons of agreeing with one person over the other, however, I do believe that it is very naive of anyone of us to believe that the practice of pressing/cleaning is exclusive to any particular era in comics.

 

I agree that it's not exclusive to any particular era in comics (although as I've stated before, the physical characteristics of GA books make them much more amenable to improvement thru pressing), but it IS dependent on the value of the book, which is tied to era. How many Bronze Age books are there that are worth paying $150-200 (guess?) to Matt or Susan to stick under a press for a 2-step jump in grade? Not many...especially when compared to the number of gold/silver age books that would be worth having something like this done.

 

Would you like to share with us your experience alluded to in this(?) thread re: one of the usual suspects buying books from you and having them re-subbed?

[comicwiz]

I agree that it's not exclusive to any particular era in comics (although as I've stated before, the physical characteristics of GA books make them much more amenable to improvement thru pressing), but it IS dependent on the value of the book, which is tied to era. How many Bronze Age books are there that are worth paying $150-200 (guess?) to Matt or Susan to stick under a press for a 2-step jump in grade? Not many...especially when compared to the number of gold/silver age books that would be worth having something like this done.

 

Would you like to share with us your experience alluded to in this(?) thread re: one of the usual suspects buying books from you and having them re-subbed?

 

Mike

 

You are making an assumption that the vast majority of dealers/collectors with a penchant to maximize on resub profit are going to press books properly, and spend the $150-$300 to press the book through restoration experts like Susan or Matt. It is my opinion that although restorers need to earn a living, they also ought to assume some responsibility, and turn down such work; be able to make some type of judgement call on books that are getting dropped on their lap, which are either presented to them in a slab with a 9.4 grade, or appear a solid NM grade in its raw form, to get pressed to eke out a .2 or .4 grade increase. But who are we kidding here; really? And I guess we would be asking for too much, because like I said before, this is all about the Benjamins.

 

And of course, the counter argument -- one more flippantly used by those needing to earn a living doing this type of work -- whether or not restorationa/conservation experts should ever feel so compelled to refuse this type of work for the betterment of the hobby, there will always be an active amateur/bad pressing job performed in a basement near you. The question is, do you take the profit and divide it up between pro work, or shunt the idea of doing the press properly, save yourself the fee, and take the money and run?

 

As for sharing my experiences; what do you want to hear?

 

I have access to two major warehouse backstock finds totalling over 120,000 comics dating from 1970 through to 1995. The diamond shaped price code, coupled with the slashed bar code on those 40 cent X-Men total in the thousands. Several hundred of each issue. With a little time and resourcefulness, I can bet those books can be brought back to their newstand appearance. Would it be worth my while from a purely financial position? You bet it would. And these aren't even books in the high-premium key strata that you mention -- at best 20-30 dollar books.

 

Do I do it? No way.

 

Why? Because I feel that strongly against this type of work being performed on comics that really should be left alone. This, ironically, is the same position I have with restored comics, and the restoration camp as a whole.

[drbanner]

Like I said, the CGG thread is enough to show that it happens, but then again, those are some of the most valuable BA books.

 

Anyhow, as far as your experience I was specifically talking about your reference earlier to "seeing those 9.2/9.4 Spidey 121 and 129's" you sold to showing up on ebay later as 9.4/9.6's. I don't recall the specifics, but if this was a specific occurence, you should share it with us...

[FFB]

Please use paragraphing. You have given me a headache.

 

Red,

 

It seems like you have so sort of fatal attraction issue with the Green River Daredevil #11, as almost every one of your posts talks about it. I buy bronze age books and I have had a difficult time finding sellers who I can trust on ebay. Your constant impicating of Jason Ewert is tiring, as the guy is one of the few dealers I have been able to find who I can say it has been abosolute pleasure to deal with. The guy has over 1100 feedbacks with no neutrals or negatives, and every person I have ever talked to speaks of this guy in the absolute highest positive terms. He gets books that no one else does. He always sells unrestored blue label slabs, as to present a product with the least chance of restoration as possible (due to CGC restoration check). Have you ever dealt with the guy? Have you ever emailed the guy to ask him what happened to the book? Maybe it got pulled for a reason. Maybe he still has the book and would be willing to sell it to you. Maybe he saw an undergraded book that he decided to roll the dice on to obtain a higher grade and won out. Does this make him greedy? No - it makes him smart. And to further state that if the Green River Daredevil #11 was resubmitted to receive a higher grade, that EVERY book Ewert sells MUST have been cleaned and/or pressed is absolutely ludicrous. What, do you think he pays $150.00 a pop to Susan or Nelson to send every Silver Age and Bronze age book off to get it pressed professionally? It doesn't sound like the guy would be in business very long, as he would lose money on nearly every post-1965 book he sells. Let me ask you - If you had a 9.4 book in your collection that a high level dealer inspected and told you point blank the book was undergraded and that you should resubmit to receive a higher grade, are you telling me you would refuse to do so? - that you would just let it sit there because resubmitting a book is a no-no? Heck no - you would resubmit it to receive the book's new, proper, higher grade to cash in too! Does this make you greedy? No. It makes you smart. If you have a problem with CGC allowing proper pressing on blue label books, then why even buy a blue label book ever again? You know this is the CGC's policy and has been ALL ALONG. By purchasing a blue label book, you are acknowledging that the book may have been pressed at one time and that you are ok with it. If not, then don't even attempt to purchase a blue label book because EVERY blue label book could have been professionally pressed! Stick with raw books only.

[Red Hook]

Just hit return twice.

[garthgantu]

Are you serious? Where does it say that on the CGC slab? I am sure if this statement was printed at the top of every blue label CGC auction on eBay sales would drop off rather alarmingly.

The majority (if not all) people who buy supposedly unrestored books ARE NOT OK WITH THIS.

 

I'd take this sentiment one step further: the vast majority of people buying BA and older comics - slabbed or otherwise - have no idea that pressing is ever done to books. Restoration in general is utterly misunderstood by most comic book collectors, but pressing in particular, because it's so hard (impossible?) to detect in many instances, is almost completely unknown to all but the top 10% of the collecting community, I would estimate.

 

So yes, if CGC were to "publicize" the fact that cleaning and pressing are forms of restoration that in many cases cannot be detected by CGC's graders, it would cause some uproar in the hobby as a whole.

[comicwiz]

Anyhow, as far as your experience I was specifically talking about your reference earlier to "seeing those 9.2/9.4 Spidey 121 and 129's" you sold to showing up on ebay later as 9.4/9.6's. I don't recall the specifics, but if this was a specific occurence, you should share it with us...

 

That was more a response on the ludicrous notion of having the buyer resell the book to the seller once the higher grade is attained.

 

Although I did sell a 9.2 and a 9.4 to Jason, I have no grudges if in fact he manages to eke out the hgher grades. As Zonker mentioned, and I objected, that this is not only about the transfer of investment risk.

 

In fact, I will go on the record to say that Jason is one of the most professional and courteous sellers I have ever dealt with on eBay, and quite frankly, if he were to tie those two bad boys to his bumper, drag them down to Tijuana, only to sumbit them as the "Tijuana Roughride Pedigree", then the only thing I have to say about it is: Jimmy crack corn, AND I DON'T CARE!

[joe_collector]

...and quite frankly, if he were to tie those two bad boys to his bumper, drag them down to Tijuana, only to sumbit them as the "Tijuana Roughride Pedigree", then the only thing I have to say about it is: Jimmy crack corn, AND I DON'T CARE!

 

Please don't give Chuck any ideas.