Superman # 14 Cover Art

[clemso]

Bronty

 

I don't think I addressed what I would pay for the item in better or worse condition, and it wasn't questioned as such. Yes it should sell for less.. well.. maybe

 

I don't doubt any serious buyer will take into account the condition and the expectation that it will need to be conserved. However, when you're talking about such an item, if you're truly interested, the amount you might decrease your bid is a very tiny % of the total price because conservation of the item will only represent a small amount of money. It wouldn't be the same situation for a Jim Aparo cover where the conservation cost would be a significant % of value and therefore condition might be more of a consideration

 

the Spider-Man 6 pages are a good example for that too. While 15-18 pages were destroyed (I haven't spoken to Fred [the buyer with the dogs] in a few years, so I can't ask) some pages were only slightly damaged, like a corner chewed off - but going into the art. I doubt anyone takes that into consideration when buying as they're happy to get anything from the book, chewed or not.

 

I tracked down most pages from ASM 6. All have either been on the open market or I ve seen/heard of them privately. I think there is only 1 page unaccounted for. I used to own pages ASM 6, pages 16,17 & 18. 18 is the best page in the book (17 was close) there was a repaired hole in one of the panels, but fortunately this did not go into the drawings of Spidey or the Lizard. Would I still want to own ASM 6 pg 18 given the chance? Heck yeah!!

 

Clem

[Bronty]

Bronty

 

I don't think I addressed what I would pay for the item in better or worse condition, and it wasn't questioned as such. Yes it should sell for less.. well.. maybe

 

I don't doubt any serious buyer will take into account the condition and the expectation that it will need to be conserved. However, when you're talking about such an item, if you're truly interested, the amount you might decrease your bid is a very tiny % of the total price because conservation of the item will only represent a small amount of money. It wouldn't be the same situation for a Jim Aparo cover where the conservation cost would be a significant % of value and therefore condition might be more of a consideration

 

the Spider-Man 6 pages are a good example for that too. While 15-18 pages were destroyed (I haven't spoken to Fred [the buyer with the dogs] in a few years, so I can't ask) some pages were only slightly damaged, like a corner chewed off - but going into the art. I doubt anyone takes that into consideration when buying as they're happy to get anything from the book, chewed or not.

 

Oh I fully agree that the conservation costs will be minimal as a % of ending price - assuming it can be done. But don't the real costs affecting my bids go beyond that? If I'm a buyer I'm taking on a project which one would hope would go well, but could always go badly, on a very pricey item. And what if the paper is really far gone and only so much can be done? Point I am making is the cost is not so much the paper conservator's bill but rather the question marks in the buyer's head.

[Bronty]

I don't know some of you guys take that attitude.

 

Not liking the condition doesn't mean "waiting for the next one" it can just as easily mean lowering your bid or (gasp) not bidding at all and buying something else or even (double gasp) keeping the money.

 

I mean if your favorite cover in the world turns out to be 50% stat, or have a quarter size hole missing in the board right in the focal point of the image, are you really going to pay as much for it as if it were pristine and/or fully original? Someone's got some ASM 6 pages to sell you guys then

 

If this piece were pristine how could you NOT pay more for it than if it were brittle and crumbling? I understand that its not the same as with comics, I am MUCH more forgiving in my art purchases re condition, but its not like its a total non-consideration!

 

conservation report

Clem

 

yeah, the buyer just needs to know what he's taking on in buying this

[rob_react]

I think you are right about wanting to know the condition of the board in terms of suppleness/brittleness. I recall many of Jerry's comic books recently coming to market and the condition of many of the pages were brittle.

 

Exactly. If the art was treated in the same manner as the books (and why would one think anything else) then the paper will be in rough shape

 

One thing to keep in mind is that art board is much higher quality paper than newsprint, so it's not a one-to-one comparison. Yes, artwork might be in worse shape than art kept in Mylar in a climate controlled vault, but it's not necessarily going to be in the same shape as the comics.

[comicartcom]

I think you are right about wanting to know the condition of the board in terms of suppleness/brittleness. I recall many of Jerry's comic books recently coming to market and the condition of many of the pages were brittle.

 

Exactly. If the art was treated in the same manner as the books (and why would one think anything else) then the paper will be in rough shape

 

One thing to keep in mind is that art board is much higher quality paper than newsprint, so it's not a one-to-one comparison. Yes, artwork might be in worse shape than art kept in Mylar in a climate controlled vault, but it's not necessarily going to be in the same shape as the comics.

 

Rob states a very salient point

[Mephisto]

I think you are right about wanting to know the condition of the board in terms of suppleness/brittleness. I recall many of Jerry's comic books recently coming to market and the condition of many of the pages were brittle.

 

Exactly. If the art was treated in the same manner as the books (and why would one think anything else) then the paper will be in rough shape

 

One thing to keep in mind is that art board is much higher quality paper than newsprint, so it's not a one-to-one comparison. Yes, artwork might be in worse shape than art kept in Mylar in a climate controlled vault, but it's not necessarily going to be in the same shape as the comics.

 

I was thinking the same thing about the difference in the type of paper. Also even though they came from the same collection the smallest change in placement when it was stored can make a big difference. Pacific Coast pedigree comics are considered pretty damn nice with off to white pages, but due to the placement of storage of some of the bronze books some have cream pages and pretty bad tanning on the back covers. I had a couple of Daredevil's issues like that and Borock said it was just the slight difference of storage that this happened to some of the Pac Coast books.

[Bronty]

I think you are right about wanting to know the condition of the board in terms of suppleness/brittleness. I recall many of Jerry's comic books recently coming to market and the condition of many of the pages were brittle.

 

Exactly. If the art was treated in the same manner as the books (and why would one think anything else) then the paper will be in rough shape

 

One thing to keep in mind is that art board is much higher quality paper than newsprint, so it's not a one-to-one comparison. Yes, artwork might be in worse shape than art kept in Mylar in a climate controlled vault, but it's not necessarily going to be in the same shape as the comics.

 

Oh I know, the thought crossed my mind as well. What I am going by is the crumbled lower corners as being an indicator (or not) of the overall health of the board. I don't have experience with that old and rough; all I know is it doesn't look good at first glance.

[comicartcom]

the chipping means nothing Bronty. It's on Whatman board which is prone to chip in any condition and looking at the piece, the tears should be easy enough to repair in some fashion minimizing the visual aspect of the damage. You'll still be able to see them, but you'd have to be close..

 

I'm sure the piece is not brittle as my experience with Whatman board is that while it may discolor, you'll find it to be in pretty nice paper condition as I can see from the photo.

[comix4fun]

the chipping means nothing Bronty. It's on Whatman board which is prone to chip in any condition and looking at the piece, the tears should be easy enough to repair in some fashion minimizing the visual aspect of the damage. You'll still be able to see them, but you'd have to be close..

 

I'm sure the piece is not brittle as my experience with Whatman board is that while it may discolor, you'll find it to be in pretty nice paper condition as I can see from the photo.

 

Everything you say makes perfect sense, but it's still an assumption based on a picture.

 

If I were a bidder, the last thing I would want to do is go off of what I can see on the photo. I'd love a report from a paper conservationist with some specifics. I hope there is a long and detailed description of condition when this thing goes live.

 

I would not buy a house, or a car based on a photograph without a lot more disclosure. Given the dollars at play here I don't know how anyone wouldn't feel the same way with a piece of art this prominent.

[Bronty]

the chipping means nothing Bronty. It's on Whatman board which is prone to chip in any condition and looking at the piece, the tears should be easy enough to repair in some fashion minimizing the visual aspect of the damage. You'll still be able to see them, but you'd have to be close..

 

I'm sure the piece is not brittle as my experience with Whatman board is that while it may discolor, you'll find it to be in pretty nice paper condition as I can see from the photo.

 

Everything you say makes perfect sense, but it's still an assumption based on a picture.

 

If I were a bidder, the last thing I would want to do is go off of what I can see on the photo. I'd love a report from a paper conservationist with some specifics. I hope there is a long and detailed description of condition when this thing goes live.

 

I would not buy a house, or a car based on a photograph without a lot more disclosure. Given the dollars at play here I don't know how anyone wouldn't feel the same way with a piece of art this prominent.

 

Love the new sig. One of the best cartoons ever!

[Bronty]

the chipping means nothing Bronty. It's on Whatman board which is prone to chip in any condition and looking at the piece, the tears should be easy enough to repair in some fashion minimizing the visual aspect of the damage. You'll still be able to see them, but you'd have to be close..

 

I'm sure the piece is not brittle as my experience with Whatman board is that while it may discolor, you'll find it to be in pretty nice paper condition as I can see from the photo.

 

I see. I can completely understand why you don't view it as a big deal then, although as Chris says at these kinds of dollars I would want it checked out. Lucky for me I don't have to worry about it

[metropoliscomics]

The ComicConnect listings for the Superman #14 and Detective Comics #69 have been updated with new condition information.

 

Both covers are in solid shape. As the owner of quite a number of pre-1943 DC covers, I can attest to the fact that the corners of the art board do generally get a somewhat delicate. Such is the case with the Superman 14's bottom left hand corner.

 

In the hands of any competent art restorer, the issue that exists with the Superman cover 14 can be fixed quite easily.

 

Steve

 

 

[clemso]

Bronty

 

I don't think I addressed what I would pay for the item in better or worse condition, and it wasn't questioned as such. Yes it should sell for less.. well.. maybe

 

I don't doubt any serious buyer will take into account the condition and the expectation that it will need to be conserved. However, when you're talking about such an item, if you're truly interested, the amount you might decrease your bid is a very tiny % of the total price because conservation of the item will only represent a small amount of money. It wouldn't be the same situation for a Jim Aparo cover where the conservation cost would be a significant % of value and therefore condition might be more of a consideration

 

the Spider-Man 6 pages are a good example for that too. While 15-18 pages were destroyed (I haven't spoken to Fred [the buyer with the dogs] in a few years, so I can't ask) some pages were only slightly damaged, like a corner chewed off - but going into the art. I doubt anyone takes that into consideration when buying as they're happy to get anything from the book, chewed or not.

 

I tracked down most pages from ASM 6. All have either been on the open market or I ve seen/heard of them privately. I think there is only 1 page unaccounted for. I used to own pages ASM 6, pages 16,17 & 18. 18 is the best page in the book (17 was close) there was a repaired hole in one of the panels, but fortunately this did not go into the drawings of Spidey or the Lizard. Would I still want to own ASM 6 pg 18 given the chance? Heck yeah!!

 

Clem

 

is the cover known to exist? (just curious)

 

No, in fact there are very few early 60s Marvel covers out there, either that or someones is sitting on the boat load.

[comicartcom]

No, in fact there are very few early 60s Marvel covers out there, either that or someones is sitting on the boat load.

 

that is the rumor, that a specific 2 people have them

 

too bad for you folks I won't tell

 

[Bronty]

that would be such an awesome sight. I wonder if it would (temporarily?) destroy the current value for splashes and panels (which are high since the covers are unavailable) or if the supply of covers would be a massive boost to the market. I tend to think a little of both(?)

[Mephisto]

No, in fact there are very few early 60s Marvel covers out there, either that or someones is sitting on the boat load.

 

that is the rumor, that a specific 2 people have them

 

too bad for you folks I won't tell

 

 

You mean the stolen covers?

[comicartcom]

No, in fact there are very few early 60s Marvel covers out there, either that or someones is sitting on the boat load.

 

that is the rumor, that a specific 2 people have them

 

too bad for you folks I won't tell

 

 

You mean the stolen covers?

 

99.99% of all SA Marvel art is stolen.. what's yer point??