Have you ever seen a ghost?

[MedicAR]

I'm in the camp that would love to believe but think that there are others too eager to jump to a supernatural reason for what they see with looking for a logical answer.

 

I tended to agree until it happened to me. I've never had repeated "corner of my eye" experiences in the same place before that house and only at one other since. And that second place is supposedly haunted too.

[joeypost]

Ghost? No, I don't believe in them.

 

Supernatural forces? Yes. Both good and bad.

 

How do they manifest themselves? Not disputing you, just interested.

 

If you look at it from a strict Biblical standpoint demonic forces have always been able to either materialise in the form of humans (think flood) or possess a person. Jesus even acknowledged this by casting out many demons. The Greek scriptures, in many places show demonic posession enabling humans to have super human powers.

 

If these wicked angels were able to materialise and take human form back then, what stops them today from creating illusions to mimic dead people? To differentiate between the two, I do not believe it is a spirit of the actual dead person but a "mimic" from one of these wicked spirit creatures.

 

I agree with a lot of this post(the Bible and all that), but I also think that some ghosts could be people who don't know they are dead. Or just haven't made it to their final destination yet.

 

I do not deny or disagree with those that see these types of apparitions. I try and apply Occam's razor to the problem and based on what I know and the evidence around me point to these wicked spirit forces.

 

They may play tricks on us in the same manner we do with animals. Similar to having a dog or cat follow the light from a flashlight.

[RockMyAmadeus]

I am not so sure as to say they are all frauds because I don't understand it.

 

I or you can't explain how he or any other medium does what they do. I will say it is amazing to watch.

 

Sure I can. It's all fake. Despite numerous challenges over the centures, not a single "medium" or "spiritist" has contacted the dead in any way that would stand up to even the slimmest rational challenge.

 

Not one.

 

So you don't understand it? Ok. Let me help you understand: everything those people do is fake. All of it. It's all designed to do one thing, and one thing only: to part people with their money. It's amazing to watch because you want to believe there's something beyond the physical world, and that's perfectly natural. But in doing so, you've closed yourself off to genuine investigation and skepticism, which would lead you to the truth about such people...that they are frauds with a cleverly designed sleight of hand routine. You don't believe the magician is truly magical, because he tells you so...so why would you believe people who perform similiar parlor tricks?

 

 

 

The books I have read have many examples similar to Roy's story.

 

I try not to have such a black or white, right or wrong, fake or real attitude.

 

There are shades of gray in this world that we will never understand.

 

I try not to have such a namby-pamby, wishy-washy, "we can't know anything for sure" attitude.

 

There are blacks and whites in this world that we can perfectly understand.

 

(And yes, that was just to demonstrate a point. Go back and re-read what I wrote in this thread, and you'll see that I said quite clearly that there IS indeed a spiritual world, and there are in fact things which we don't understand. "Ghosts" and "mediums" are not among those things.)

[nearmint]

My father-in-law is the most practical person that I know. He's an atheist, and doesn't believe in the paranormal at all. Years ago, he bought a house in Washington state, and it was the only building he's ever experienced that had a weird vibe to it, a distinctly unwelcoming feel to it. Years later, they sold the house, and one day, while the kids were at school, and my mother-in-law was at work, he started loading up the car and moving stuff to the new house. While working on the 2nd load, he was carrying a small TV through a hallway towards the front door, and something shoved him hard from behind. He hit the ground hard and immediately looked up to see no one there. He's certain that no one was in the house.

[MedicAR]

 

Lawn art.

 

Like these:

 

 

[COI]

My one and only spooky encounter occured while I was in the Army years ago.

 

In 1990 when I PCS'd from Fort Carson, CO to Stuttgart, Germany I was initially stationed at 5th General Hospital in Bad Cannstatt for about 8 months before going to Panzer Kaserne.

 

During those 8 months I was receiving training working at the different departments (Emergency Room, D-2, D-3 surgical wards and L&D and Newborn Nursery). This required a lot of shiftwork at different hours. For me, mostly late nights/EARLY mornings.

 

This kaserne had an immense network of tunnels that allowed people to go from building to building without ever having to walk outside. Not only were the tunnels a shortcut, but they were also convenient during the winter months and helped avoid the freezing weather.

 

We could go from the barracks to the main hospital building or even to the Dining Hall on the other side of the kaserne.

5th General Hospital was a Nazi Hospital during WW2, hence the multitude of tunnels and an possible explanation of what's about to follow...

 

We used to take the S-Bahn and go clubbing downtown Stuttgart (Cinderella's or the Rock Fabrik I believe were the clubs used to frequent back then) and we would back to the kaserne late at night/early morning. One time late summer coming back from the club we decided to take the tunnels to the chow hall to grab breakfast (they were open 24 hours on the weekends). It was around 3am. While we were walking in the darkness of the catacombs we noticed a sudden cold draft.I started feeling uncomfortable. I then started hearing the sounds of marching coming from the darkness further down the tunnel. We all heard it. Trip Trop! Trip Trop! Trip Trop! I could swear I even heard German cadence. Anyways, one of the guys with us who had been stationed there a few years said that it was normal. It was the ghosts of German Soldiers marching. I thought he was effing with us and thought it was an elaborate joke to scare us. I never stopped taking the tunnels and forgot about the incident until about three months later.

 

During the winter I had started working the D-3 surgical ward. That particular week I was on late shifts (2300-0700 hrs). I would take the tunnels from the basement of the barracks to the hospital basement and catch the elevator to the 3rd floor.

 

So here I am at 1055pm walking the tunnels and it starts getting cold. I thought it was a cold darft of air coming from outside, as it was snowing pretty hard, so I didn't pay too much attention. When I got to the elevator I pushed the button for it to get to the basement. As the door slid opened I saw there was a patient with a hospital robe on with an IV stand. In the darkened elevator (the lights were always dim and flickering) I said hello to him. From what I remember he nodded at me in reply. As the elevator started going up I was looking down at my correspondence course paperwork I was planning on doing that night and not paying attention to the guy. It started getting really cold again, my breath was visible in front of me as I was looking down. "It's COLD in here!" I said out loud. No answer from the guy. As the elevator was coming to a stop on my floor I looked up to tell him to have a good night. He was gone. In the space of a minute or so it took that elevator to reach the third floor from the basement the guy just disappeared! The elevator never stopped on another floor.

 

I was freaked out. When I got to Nurses station, I told one of the nurses who worked there. She was a civilian and had been there for about 20-30 years. She laughed and said I had met Hans, as he was affectionately called. She said he was the ghost of a german officer who had died in the hospital during WW2. People saw him all the time on the elevator and the 4th floor, mostly at night, but sometimes even during the day. Sometimes he would be on the 4th floor lounge balcony smoking a cigarette according to her . I then remembered and asked her about the marching sounds in the tunnel and she said it was common as well. Needless to say. I told my NCO at the time NOT to schedule me anymore night shifts. I went to Panzer Kaserne a couple of months later. The hospital was closed down later that following year.

 

The weirdest thing is that when I think back I don't remember seeing the guy's eyes. The elevator was dark so I didnt think much of it at the time, but I SWEAR upon retrospect that they were just black holes. Also, the IV pole the guy had didn't have a standard IV bag of fluid, but a glass bottle. They had stopped using glass IV bottles years before...I still get the creeps thinking about it even after 20 years.

 

Awesome.

[DrWatson]

My father-in-law is the most practical person that I know. He's an atheist, and doesn't believe in the paranormal at all. Years ago, he bought a house in Washington state, and it was the only building he's ever experienced that had a weird vibe to it, a distinctly unwelcoming feel to it. Years later, they sold the house, and one day, while the kids were at school, and my mother-in-law was at work, he started loading up the car and moving stuff to the new house. While working on the 2nd load, he was carrying a small TV through a hallway towards the front door, and something shoved him hard from behind. He hit the ground hard and immediately looked up to see no one there. He's certain that no one was in the house.

He tripped over the power cord. It feels like being pushed. I've done it... twice.

[faster friends]

"Ghosts" and "mediums" are not among those things

 

Ironic coming from the man who named his dog Casper.

[MedicAR]

For the most part I need proof before I make any decision. But I keep an open mind.

If you have ever watched the show, Crossing over with John Edward or read any of his books, you may think twice about it.

I think he has this extra sense others here have mentioned.

 

I'm late to the game, so it's probably been mentioned. Penn and Teller did a fantastic piece on John Edwards and how his show was filmed. It may 8 or more hours to get a 30 minute show. They have to cut out all of the mis-steps and general errors he makes to get a single show. Also the audience was required to sign a non-disclosure agreement.

 

That said, he has pulled some weird stuff out on people that appeared to be completely out of left field.

[nearmint]

My father-in-law is the most practical person that I know. He's an atheist, and doesn't believe in the paranormal at all. Years ago, he bought a house in Washington state, and it was the only building he's ever experienced that had a weird vibe to it, a distinctly unwelcoming feel to it. Years later, they sold the house, and one day, while the kids were at school, and my mother-in-law was at work, he started loading up the car and moving stuff to the new house. While working on the 2nd load, he was carrying a small TV through a hallway towards the front door, and something shoved him hard from behind. He hit the ground hard and immediately looked up to see no one there. He's certain that no one was in the house.

He tripped over the power cord. It feels like being pushed. I've done it... twice.

 

If it were anyone else, I'd agree with you. But my father-in-law would never let a power cord hang down while carrying anything.

[nearmint]

Lots of interesting discussion in this thread.

[DrWatson]

My father-in-law is the most practical person that I know. He's an atheist, and doesn't believe in the paranormal at all. Years ago, he bought a house in Washington state, and it was the only building he's ever experienced that had a weird vibe to it, a distinctly unwelcoming feel to it. Years later, they sold the house, and one day, while the kids were at school, and my mother-in-law was at work, he started loading up the car and moving stuff to the new house. While working on the 2nd load, he was carrying a small TV through a hallway towards the front door, and something shoved him hard from behind. He hit the ground hard and immediately looked up to see no one there. He's certain that no one was in the house.

He tripped over the power cord. It feels like being pushed. I've done it... twice.

 

If it were anyone else, I'd agree with you. But my father-in-law would never let a power cord hang down while carrying anything.

If you say so, Prince Charming.

[RockMyAmadeus]

But I am absolutely convinced of the truth of my statements, without doubt in any way. There's absolutely no question in my mind about it.

 

I am too. 100%.

 

I just realize that I can't fully understand everything at once and so leave a little room for better interpretation on some things.

 

 

The implication being, of course, that I think I DO fully understand everything at once and don't leave room for better interpretations on some things.

 

 

Since, in the entire course of recorded human history, thousands and thousands of years, no one has ever been able to provide concrete evidence of the spiritual world, I'm going to suggest that "a better interpretation" on THIS matter does not exist, and is not likely to exist (again, based on the lack of such existence for the past, oh, 6,000 years or so), and therefore, my conclusion is a safe one to have (not that it's accurate per se, but that it's not likely to be successfully challenged by anyone.)

 

Do you think you/we are so much more special than the rest of humanity that the secrets of the afterlife are going to be revealed to you/us, when such secrets have been hidden from mankind for all of recorded history thus far...?

 

 

 

My only response to this argument is to take the history of astronomy into account. To go from believing that the sky is a flat disk of land surrounded by water to understanding the immensity of the Universe...its vastness...and the godlike power that are displayed by the forces that shape it. It is itself a wonder and I use it as a measure of what may lie ahead for us to experience.

 

I will not discount entirely 1000s of years of anecdotal evidence simply because It hasn't been proven yet. Mankind is still learning. Its close minded to do so.

 

Have I ever seen a ghost? No. Do I believe they exist? I have no evidence either way but I sure don't have the hubris to discount them outright.

 

What is hubris to you is conviction to others.

 

Astronomy is a field of SCIENCE. The universe can be observed, physically. The afterlife cannot. To try and compare a field of science with a field which is strictly based on personal belief is absurd. We will learn more about the PHYSICAL universe as we continue on. But our knowledge of "what happens after we die" is in the same exact place NOW as it was 6,000 years ago, 5,000 years ago, 1,000 years ago, 100 years ago, yesterday.

 

We know no more...nor no less..than we did in the past. You cannot compare a field of science with personal belief. I believe what I believe for very specific reasons, but those beliefs are no more provable than yours. To say that ANY belief about the unknowable is "hubris" is itself hubris.

 

Oh, and by the way...not everyone bought into the "idea" that the world was a flat disc around which the sun, moon, and stars rotated.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Ghost? No, I don't believe in them.

 

Supernatural forces? Yes. Both good and bad.

 

How do they manifest themselves? Not disputing you, just interested.

 

If you look at it from a strict Biblical standpoint demonic forces have always been able to either materialise in the form of humans (think flood) or possess a person. Jesus even acknowledged this by casting out many demons. The Greek scriptures, in many places show demonic posession enabling humans to have super human powers.

 

If these wicked angels were able to materialise and take human form back then, what stops them today from creating illusions to mimic dead people? To differentiate between the two, I do not believe it is a spirit of the actual dead person but a "mimic" from one of these wicked spirit creatures.

 

And therein lies the irony.

 

Lets be honest....belief in an all powerful old man who lives in the sky and created everything is just as silly as believing in ghosts...or the demons and angels associated with religion. Its all an amalgam of human experience and myth.

 

My sister believes in ghosts but not bigfoot. I cant understand where a person draws the line. Big hairy apeman with giant feet or spirit trapped on this physical plain...which one is more plausible? Its a pointless argument.

 

I would recommend to many of you to read "The Power of Myth" by Joseph Campbell...and pretty much anything else he has written.

 

 

disclaimer: I do believe in the old man in the sky.

 

Where did Joeypost refer to "an old man in the sky"...?

 

:shrug:

[DR.X]

I personally never seen anything like that, but this story was interesting. In my late twenties I was dating a girl ( she was a cop ) that was Serbian. She was good looking, and here whole family was pretty nice people. She had a younger sister that was a few years younger than her who was also attractive. Parents had a real nice house ( neither girl lived at home ), money, etc. One day we went to visit her aunt who was a lot of fun to hang out with.

Anyway she tells me this creepy ing story about something that that happened there that to this day I wont forget. Her sister verified it also.

They had invited some friends over to play cards or something. It was mid-winter and they were sitiing at this table in front of a big picture window. The girls had their backs to the window with a few other people. Four on each side of the table. The girl I was dating ( Joanne ) said they were talking and playing cards when she noticed something out of the corner of her left eye.

She claims this deformed twisted up man came out of wall to the left of her.Her description of this thing was ing creepy. He had this tiny short little deformed arms and hands hanging off the shoulders and deformed features on the face. Leathery skin like it had been burned. He was hopping across the room and never took its eyes off of her. It dissapeared into the wall on the other side of the room. She said" I was sitting their dumfonded, almost crying wondering what the I just saw. She said she was terrified and turned to ask her sister about it and noticed tears streaming down her sisters face. She saw it also. Said they were so shook up they had to call their mom to pick them up that they couldn't drive.

The mom told them that the probably saw a spirit moving from one place to another that sometimes become visible. Said the reason it was staring at her was because it knew she could see it. Sounded like something from a NIght Gallery Episode.

I would have accused them of smoking some skunk cabbage but neither of them did drugs due the jobs they had.

 

DR.X

[joeypost]

But I am absolutely convinced of the truth of my statements, without doubt in any way. There's absolutely no question in my mind about it.

 

I am too. 100%.

 

I just realize that I can't fully understand everything at once and so leave a little room for better interpretation on some things.

 

 

The implication being, of course, that I think I DO fully understand everything at once and don't leave room for better interpretations on some things.

 

 

Since, in the entire course of recorded human history, thousands and thousands of years, no one has ever been able to provide concrete evidence of the spiritual world, I'm going to suggest that "a better interpretation" on THIS matter does not exist, and is not likely to exist (again, based on the lack of such existence for the past, oh, 6,000 years or so), and therefore, my conclusion is a safe one to have (not that it's accurate per se, but that it's not likely to be successfully challenged by anyone.)

 

Do you think you/we are so much more special than the rest of humanity that the secrets of the afterlife are going to be revealed to you/us, when such secrets have been hidden from mankind for all of recorded history thus far...?

 

 

 

My only response to this argument is to take the history of astronomy into account. To go from believing that the sky is a flat disk of land surrounded by water to understanding the immensity of the Universe...its vastness...and the godlike power that are displayed by the forces that shape it. It is itself a wonder and I use it as a measure of what may lie ahead for us to experience.

 

I will not discount entirely 1000s of years of anecdotal evidence simply because It hasn't been proven yet. Mankind is still learning. Its close minded to do so.

 

Have I ever seen a ghost? No. Do I believe they exist? I have no evidence either way but I sure don't have the hubris to discount them outright.

 

What is hubris to you is conviction to others.

 

Astronomy is a field of SCIENCE. The universe can be observed, physically. The afterlife cannot. To try and compare a field of science with a field which is strictly based on personal belief is absurd. We will learn more about the PHYSICAL universe as we continue on. But our knowledge of "what happens after we die" is in the same exact place NOW as it was 6,000 years ago, 5,000 years ago, 1,000 years ago, 100 years ago, yesterday.

 

We know no more...nor no less..than we did in the past. You cannot compare a field of science with personal belief. I believe what I believe for very specific reasons, but those beliefs are no more provable than yours. To say that ANY belief about the unknowable is "hubris" is itself hubris.

 

Oh, and by the way...not everyone bought into the "idea" that the world was a flat disc around which the sun, moon, and stars rotated.

 

They were: burned at the stake, tortured, had their tongues cut out, etc.

[MedicAR]

Ghost? No, I don't believe in them.

 

Supernatural forces? Yes. Both good and bad.

 

How do they manifest themselves? Not disputing you, just interested.

 

If you look at it from a strict Biblical standpoint demonic forces have always been able to either materialise in the form of humans (think flood) or possess a person. Jesus even acknowledged this by casting out many demons. The Greek scriptures, in many places show demonic posession enabling humans to have super human powers.

 

If these wicked angels were able to materialise and take human form back then, what stops them today from creating illusions to mimic dead people? To differentiate between the two, I do not believe it is a spirit of the actual dead person but a "mimic" from one of these wicked spirit creatures.

 

I agree with a lot of this post(the Bible and all that), but I also think that some ghosts could be people who don't know they are dead. Or just haven't made it to their final destination yet.

 

This idea holds with my energy theory. The energy that made them who they were is still here either because they are unaware of the situation, want to leave a message, or are trapped. The last option being like energy in a battery, it's just there until tapped.

[RockMyAmadeus]

"Ghosts" and "mediums" are not among those things

 

Ironic coming from the man who named his dog Casper.

 

I didn't name him. He came from the pound named, and I believe it's best to keep the names they had.

 

[faster friends]

"Ghosts" and "mediums" are not among those things

 

Ironic coming from the man who named his dog Casper.

 

I didn't name him. He came from the pound named, and I believe it's best to keep the names they had.

 

 

The name sure fits him

[seanfingh]

 

Where did Joeypost refer to "an old man in the sky"...?

 

:shrug:

 

Joey didn't. Shooty himself did. He was being self-referentially tongue in cheek, and making sure that everyone didn't think he was being deliberately insulting. I always read his posts carefully, and it was clear to me.

 

I don't always agree with Shooty, but I always enjoy his posting.