The current model for buying high grade comics online....

[Ted Knight]

I submit that, particularly for the old-style inner well, likely 40% of 9.6 and 9.8 graded books are in reality far lower grade.

 

I submit that 90% of all unprovable statistics are semi-randomly pulled out of someone's .

 

Nowhere near 40% of the hundreds of books I've gotten suffer from SCS; MAYBE 5%, maybe less. But let's assume you're correct. What do you recommend...or are you just complaining for the sake of complaining?

 

Of course I have no proof of my conjecture, just my own anecdotal experience. I never claimed to be a huge volume buyer of slabs, but each time I take the plunge and pick up a small group of slabs (always in 9.6 and up), I have never had the entire order be acceptable. There are always at least two or three books with slab damage out of orders that probably average 5-8 books. So anecdotally, I'd put it at 25-40% or so for me.

 

 

I find this hard to believe. Not saying this did not happen to you, but I have shipped 100's of CGC comics and I have not gotten one email that a book had SCS. I know, I got lucky. If I am wrong, I am sure, one of our fellow members will remind me that I shipped them a book and I had to refund their money

 

I, now, look at hundreds, sometimes a thousand, CGC books a month, and very, very few have SCS.

 

Yes, I know, I used to head CGC, but my living counts on eye for detail when helping a consigner or buying for Heritage, so I look at every book in the holder when I am buying or getting a consignment. What I have seen is that SCS is minimal. That said, and I have stated this before, whether a comic is in a CGC holder, a mylar, a fortress, or a bag and board, if not handled correctly, it can be damaged.

 

Just my

 

 

It seems like this is one of those cases where the few fails really stand out in memory. Everyone who has seen that picture of the Hulk 181 9.9 cringes at the thought of what happened. In another thread, I mentioned the Gaines Crime Suspenstories 27 on Heritage right now that looks like the top had some extra overlap that got crunched.

 

But beyond some of these isolated examples. My personal experience with 100 or so slabs hasn't yielded more than a couple of issues with what might be SCS, might be a bad day for grading.

 

All that said, the overwhelming value of CGC books is being able to have reasonable expectations about what I buy. If you find it frustrating to get a book that looks like it might not be a 9.6 but really a 9.4, man, you should have been buying books mail order in the late '80s and early '90s. It was all over the map and with most raw dealers, still is.

 

The truth is, I buy more comics and spend more money now because of CGC, and I'm a guy that likes his books raw. Hence all the cracking...

[Rosland]

I have purchased the vast majority of my books online and had them mailed to

me over the last 5-6 years. My SCS rate is close to 1% and I've returned all

of them. The scarier statistic is that they don't disappear from the census, so

they are still out there.

 

We need a SCS registry.

[500Club]

I submit that, particularly for the old-style inner well, likely 40% of 9.6 and 9.8 graded books are in reality far lower grade.

 

I submit that 90% of all unprovable statistics are semi-randomly pulled out of someone's .

 

Nowhere near 40% of the hundreds of books I've gotten suffer from SCS; MAYBE 5%, maybe less. But let's assume you're correct. What do you recommend...or are you just complaining for the sake of complaining?

 

Of course I have no proof of my conjecture, just my own anecdotal experience. I never claimed to be a huge volume buyer of slabs, but each time I take the plunge and pick up a small group of slabs (always in 9.6 and up), I have never had the entire order be acceptable. There are always at least two or three books with slab damage out of orders that probably average 5-8 books. So anecdotally, I'd put it at 25-40% or so for me.

 

It always amazes me how many here downplay this issue whenever it's broached. I don't know if it's just too painful to acknowledge that this system is fundamentally flawed or what. Maybe some people just aren't looking at the books that closely. I've seen numerous posts in the "brag threads" with people showing off 9.6-9.8 books with obvious damage, seemingly oblivious.

 

This Hulk 181 9.9 really seals it though. The emperor has no clothes.

 

Reminds me of the old Churchill quote - 'Democracy is the worst form of government... except for all the others'. Yeah, there are issues, but the old pre-CGC system, with undisclosed resto, and hit/miss mail order books, for example, was far worse.

[Paul_Maul]

 

 

 

I find this hard to believe. Not saying this did not happen to you, but I have shipped 100's of CGC comics and I have not gotten one email that a book had SCS. I know, I got lucky. If I am wrong, I am sure, one of our fellow members will remind me that I shipped them a book and I had to refund their money

 

I, now, look at hundreds, sometimes a thousand, CGC books a month, and very, very few have SCS.

 

Yes, I know, I used to head CGC, but my living counts on eye for detail when helping a consigner or buying for Heritage, so I look at every book in the holder when I am buying or getting a consignment. What I have seen is that SCS is minimal. That said, and I have stated this before, whether a comic is in a CGC holder, a mylar, a fortress, or a bag and board, if not handled correctly, it can be damaged.

 

Just my

 

 

I think it's also important to distinguish between books submitted to CGC and books obtained on the secondary market. CGC ships carefully, so SCS is very unlikely on a book received from submission.

 

On the other hand, when buying on ebay or Comicklink, I'm running the risk that other collectors' SCS victims are being intentionally recycled. I could easily take the three bad books I just received and put them back on Comiclink and no one would be any the wiser. The undamaged books go into collections and the bad books go back on the market.

 

I accept the comments of others, if I'm really that unlucky I guess I should keep buying and hope the law of averages kicks in.

[ComicConnoisseur]

I submit that, particularly for the old-style inner well, likely 40% of 9.6 and 9.8 graded books are in reality far lower grade.

 

I submit that 90% of all unprovable statistics are semi-randomly pulled out of someone's .

 

Nowhere near 40% of the hundreds of books I've gotten suffer from SCS; MAYBE 5%, maybe less. But let's assume you're correct. What do you recommend...or are you just complaining for the sake of complaining?

 

Of course I have no proof of my conjecture, just my own anecdotal experience. I never claimed to be a huge volume buyer of slabs, but each time I take the plunge and pick up a small group of slabs (always in 9.6 and up), I have never had the entire order be acceptable. There are always at least two or three books with slab damage out of orders that probably average 5-8 books. So anecdotally, I'd put it at 25-40% or so for me.

 

It always amazes me how many here downplay this issue whenever it's broached. I don't know if it's just too painful to acknowledge that this system is fundamentally flawed or what. Maybe some people just aren't looking at the books that closely. I've seen numerous posts in the "brag threads" with people showing off 9.6-9.8 books with obvious damage, seemingly oblivious.

 

This Hulk 181 9.9 really seals it though. The emperor has no clothes.

 

Reminds me of the old Churchill quote - 'Democracy is the worst form of government... except for all the others'. Yeah, there are issues, but the old pre-CGC system, with undisclosed resto, and hit/miss mail order books, for example, was far worse.

100 percent agree! I am involved in other collectables fields and I wish those fields had a CGC!

The stuff shady people try to pull over other people is a lot more abundant then I ever suspected. I am glad there is a CGC. (thumbs u

[joe_collector]

On the other hand, when buying on ebay or Comicklink, I'm running the risk that other collectors' SCS victims are being intentionally recycled. I could easily take the three bad books I just received and put them back on Comiclink and no one would be any the wiser. The undamaged books go into collections and the bad books go back on the market.

 

There is a lot of this going on, and not just with SCS - horribly cut books, soft grades, etc. all get recycled into cash, with the true primo books going into permanent collections. Most of what you see online are the bottom-of-the-barrel dregs for that particular book and grade, and NOT the outstanding copies.

[joe_collector]

Yeah, there are issues, but the old pre-CGC system, with undisclosed resto, and hit/miss mail order books, for example, was far worse.

 

If prices had not increased exponentially since CGC came into effect, I might agree with you, but we are all paying through the nose for this service, so I do not see it being any better or worse than before.

 

Prior to CGC I could buy 5-6 NM copies of a given BA book, getting maybe 2 NM/NM+s and the rest VF or VF/F, for the same price I pay for a NM CGC copy - I do not see that as progress, other than in the ultra-high-end GA market, which makes up about 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% of the total funny book hobby.

[Hammerhead]

I'm happy we have THE CGC! When I buy a book at least I know it will be close to the given grade if not right on.

[Paul_Maul]

I'm happy we have THE CGC! When I buy a book at least I know it will be close to the given grade if not right on.

 

I'm glad everyone appreciates CGC, however my original post was not a criticism of CGC. It's been well known for years that the CGC holder is not perfect, and CGC has done their best to improve it, with mixed results.

 

My problem is with the internet business model which wants to pretend the CGC holder is something it's not. Shipping slabs repeatedly and carting them around to shows just isn't wise at this point, and while it's economically unlikely anyone will admit this, the reality is unchanged. If some engineering guru can change this reality, I'll be the first one on the bandwagon with my wallet out.

 

 

[joe_collector]

I'm happy we have THE CGC! When I buy a book at least I know it will be close to the given grade if not right on.

 

And you will pay 5X the amount you did before. Either way, you pay and there is no such thing as a free lunch.

[Bomber-Bob]

 

 

 

I find this hard to believe. Not saying this did not happen to you, but I have shipped 100's of CGC comics and I have not gotten one email that a book had SCS. I know, I got lucky. If I am wrong, I am sure, one of our fellow members will remind me that I shipped them a book and I had to refund their money

 

I, now, look at hundreds, sometimes a thousand, CGC books a month, and very, very few have SCS.

 

Yes, I know, I used to head CGC, but my living counts on eye for detail when helping a consigner or buying for Heritage, so I look at every book in the holder when I am buying or getting a consignment. What I have seen is that SCS is minimal. That said, and I have stated this before, whether a comic is in a CGC holder, a mylar, a fortress, or a bag and board, if not handled correctly, it can be damaged.

 

Just my

 

 

I think it's also important to distinguish between books submitted to CGC and books obtained on the secondary market. CGC ships carefully, so SCS is very unlikely on a book received from submission.

 

On the other hand, when buying on ebay or Comicklink, I'm running the risk that other collectors' SCS victims are being intentionally recycled. I could easily take the three bad books I just received and put them back on Comiclink and no one would be any the wiser. The undamaged books go into collections and the bad books go back on the market.

 

I accept the comments of others, if I'm really that unlucky I guess I should keep buying and hope the law of averages kicks in.

 

I agree with you. I have been very unlucky recently with incidents of SCS. I also agree with Namisgr on the friction issues resulting in problems at the staples.

I feel safer with books in the new style holder using a wedge(s). No matter what style holder though, if the book is loose in the inner well, it will eventually sustain damage if moved around enough.

- CGC will address an SCS incident if you send it in for a review. It is wise to check the grader's notes first to make sure the damage was not originally present. Sometimes we mistake SCS for an original flaw.

- Though Comiclink will not accept a return they will help you with the CGC review.

- Pedigree will accept a return (at least they used to) for a book with SCS.

[Hammerhead]

Maybe we all need to invest in this slab-pro I see advertised on here all the time.....a little cushion for the pushin'!

[jokersrevenge]

How many people have watched FF's sig line more than 10 times?

[Bomber-Bob]

Maybe we all need to invest in this slab-pro I see advertised on here all the time.....a little cushion for the pushin'!

 

Actually, that is a very good product and I am sure it would help.

I have a couple and I like it.

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

I submit that, particularly for the old-style inner well, likely 40% of 9.6 and 9.8 graded books are in reality far lower grade.

 

I submit that 90% of all unprovable statistics are semi-randomly pulled out of someone's .

 

Nowhere near 40% of the hundreds of books I've gotten suffer from SCS; MAYBE 5%, maybe less. But let's assume you're correct. What do you recommend...or are you just complaining for the sake of complaining?

 

Of course I have no proof of my conjecture, just my own anecdotal experience. I never claimed to be a huge volume buyer of slabs, but each time I take the plunge and pick up a small group of slabs (always in 9.6 and up), I have never had the entire order be acceptable. There are always at least two or three books with slab damage out of orders that probably average 5-8 books. So anecdotally, I'd put it at 25-40% or so for me.

 

It always amazes me how many here downplay this issue whenever it's broached. I don't know if it's just too painful to acknowledge that this system is fundamentally flawed or what. Maybe some people just aren't looking at the books that closely. I've seen numerous posts in the "brag threads" with people showing off 9.6-9.8 books with obvious damage, seemingly oblivious.

 

This Hulk 181 9.9 really seals it though. The emperor has no clothes.

 

Reminds me of the old Churchill quote - 'Democracy is the worst form of government... except for all the others'. Yeah, there are issues, but the old pre-CGC system, with undisclosed resto, and hit/miss mail order books, for example, was far worse.

 

 

A refrain I like to repeat.

 

Things were much, much, much, much worse before. People should always keep that in the back of their minds.

[Hammerhead]

Maybe we all need to invest in this slab-pro I see advertised on here all the time.....a little cushion for the pushin'!

 

Actually, that is a very good product and I am sure it would help.

I have a couple and I like it.

 

I was not being completely sarcastic, I am sure it would help.

[500Club]

Yeah, there are issues, but the old pre-CGC system, with undisclosed resto, and hit/miss mail order books, for example, was far worse.

 

If prices had not increased exponentially since CGC came into effect, I might agree with you, but we are all paying through the nose for this service, so I do not see it being any better or worse than before.

 

Not true, from my collecting perspective. If I want a CGC'd mid-grade ASM 1-10, for example, that book can usually be found at or below guide. It comes with a built in resto check, no odd interior flaws, and no need to deal with a like Gerry Ross.

 

Prior to CGC I could buy 5-6 NM copies of a given BA book, getting maybe 2 NM/NM+s and the rest VF or VF/F, for the same price I pay for a NM CGC copy - I do not see that as progress, other than in the ultra-high-end GA market, which makes up about 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% of the total funny book hobby.

You can still find those books raw. And, with the price collapse of most 9.6-9.8 bronze books, the impetus to slab these books has diminished, so they should be available.

[500Club]

I'm glad everyone appreciates CGC, however my original post was not a criticism of CGC. It's been well known for years that the CGC holder is not perfect, and CGC has done their best to improve it, with mixed results.

 

My problem is with the internet business model which wants to pretend the CGC holder is something it's not. Shipping slabs repeatedly and carting them around to shows just isn't wise at this point, and while it's economically unlikely anyone will admit this, the reality is unchanged. If some engineering guru can change this reality, I'll be the first one on the bandwagon with my wallet out.

OK, then. I agree. SCS is a concern.