Price guide values and slabbing costs... What's the balance?

[valiantman]

What should be the balance between the price guide values for a book

and the cost of the CGC slabbing/shipping fees?

 

For example, when a book consistently sells for $50 in CGC 9.4...

should a price guide list the book for $50 in NM9.4,

or should the book itself guide for $25 to $30,

with the understanding that another $20 to $25 goes into the cost of the slab?

 

Would you consider the raw, non-CGC-graded, NM book as a $50 book? $25? Other?

[ninanina]

The topic of a restored book came up, and someone suggested a fair price for a restored comic would be the original grade @ guide, plus the cost of restoration. This is not fair when it comes to graded 9.4's IMO because someone may have to send in several copies before they hit on that elusive 9.4. Easier perhaps when sending in a modern, but not so when sending in Bronze or Silver. So, simply adding the cost of slabbing to the guide price doesn't/shouldn't work.

 

So, how many Moderns, Bronze or SIlvers must one send in to get that 9.4. Odds improve if you know how to grade. But, if we had that information (hello CGC )maybe we could work out a formula.

 

Modern: guide plus (2 X's guide)

Bronze: guide plus (4 X's guide)

Silver: guide plus ....well you get the idea.

[towards2112]

And I'll attest to the NM.

[deathlok]

The guide price should reflect the price of NM (9.4) book. Just because CGC agrees that a book is a 9.4, it doesn't mean it should be worth more.

 

Although there is a sad trend that dealers sell books for the going CGC rate, not the guide price.

[valiantman]

Modern: guide plus (2 X's guide)

Bronze: guide plus (4 X's guide)

Silver: guide plus ....well you get the idea.

So, are you saying that the $50 CGC 9.4 book should be considered

as about a $10 book ungraded, with $40 in "two times slabbing fees"...

or am I even more confused than I think?

[valiantman]

The guide price should reflect the price of NM (9.4) book. Just because CGC agrees that a book is a 9.4, it doesn't mean it should be worth more.

There's little doubt that an ungraded "seller proclaimed" 9.4 sells for much less

than a CGC 9.4... and some of that higher price is due to the CGC slabbing...

both the cost of the slab and the confidence that it instills...

 

I'm interested in determining what we think the price guide should

say about the book itself, since it actually sells for $50 in CGC 9.4...

what should it "list for" in the price guide in ungraded NM?

Are you voting for $50 regardless of the slab?

[deathlok]

The guide price should reflect the price of NM (9.4) book. Just because CGC agrees that a book is a 9.4, it doesn't mean it should be worth more.

There's little doubt that an ungraded "seller proclaimed" 9.4 sells for much less

than a CGC 9.4... and some of that higher price is due to the CGC slabbing...

both the cost of the slab and the confidence that it instills...

 

I'm interested in determining what we think the price guide should

say about the book itself, since it actually sells for $50 in CGC 9.4...

what should it "list for" in the price guide in ungraded NM?

Are you voting for $50 regardless of the slab?

 

YES. The cost of 9.4 SHOULD be the same whether raw or graded.

[ninanina]

Ok, ya' send in a MODERN NM comic that guides @ $10.00 and one in 20 gets the 9.4 or better. So, maybe 2X's guide + guide is fair for the value of the comic because of all the money spent on the comics that didn't get the 9.4.

 

A BRONZE gets a 9.4 one in 30. So, it costs more to get that elusive 9.4 and therefore 5X's guide plus guide would be fair.

 

A SILVER gets that 9.4 one in 50. So, how about 10X's guice plus guide.

 

I'm not suggesting the multiples are fair but...

 

am suggesting, a fair price for a graded 9.4 should reflect the $'s spent in the misses where people still spend to get the comic graded but fall flat on the re-sale because it comes back an 9.0 or lower. Just something that should also be considered when looking at the WHOLE cost of grading that 9.4.

 

.

[ninanina]

The guide price should reflect the price of NM (9.4) book. Just because CGC agrees that a book is a 9.4, it doesn't mean it should be worth more.

There's little doubt that an ungraded "seller proclaimed" 9.4 sells for much less

than a CGC 9.4... and some of that higher price is due to the CGC slabbing...

both the cost of the slab and the confidence that it instills...

 

I'm interested in determining what we think the price guide should

say about the book itself, since it actually sells for $50 in CGC 9.4...

what should it "list for" in the price guide in ungraded NM?

Are you voting for $50 regardless of the slab?

 

I'm suggesting $10.00 unslabbed, because it may not be a 9.4, it's just a comic that looks like a 9.4.

[joe_collector]

am suggesting, a fair price for a graded 9.4 should reflect the $'s spent in the misses where people still spend to get the comic graded but fall flat on the re-sale because it comes back an 9.0 or lower. Just something that should also be considered when looking at the WHOLE cost of grading that 9.4.

 

Ummm, WTF does this mean?

 

Comics sell for whatever is the highest price the specs/investors/collectors will pay. I've seen CGC 9.6-9.4 Bronze comics go for at or just under Guide, just as I've watched CGC 9.0-9.2 Bronze copies go for 3X-5X Guide.

 

It all depends on the BOOK and the DEMAND, not some bizarro formula based on slabbing costs, that BTW, no one cares about.

[valiantman]

I've seen CGC 9.6-9.4 Bronze comics go for at or just under Guide, just as I've watched CGC 9.0-9.2 Bronze copies go for 3X-5X Guide.

If you were going to try to make a "realistic" price guide...

What method would you use to list the values, assuming the actual Ebay sales

would be the basis for the guide?

 

Let's say Uncommon X-People #555 has sold for:

 

...an average of $100 in CGC 9.6

...an average of $50 in CGC 9.4

...an average of $25 in CGC 9.2

...an average of $15 in non-CGC "near mint" condition

 

Would your price guide need at least these four columns...

or would it be possible to have a single value for the book? What would it be?

[25CentComic]

I believe that you will have to make 2 distinct price guides to handle CGC comics and RAW comics at the present time. It seems to be near impossible to predict the actually grade of a RAW comic and then on top of that add in some odd formula. Just my 25 cents.

[davidking623]

What kind of Raw 9.4 can you sell for the same as Graded CGC 9.4?

 

Davidking623

[FFB]

I think that the guide price of a NM 9.4 book should be for an "accurately graded" NM 9.4 book, so the price for a CGC 9.4 should be the price of the accurately graded 9.4, plus slabbing fees and shipping costs. The only difference between a raw 9.4 and a slabbed 9.4 is the slab. Every slabbed 9.4 was once a raw 9.4. If I were willing to pay $1,000 for a CGC 9.4 copy that cost $70 to grade, I would be willing to pay $1,000 minus $70 minus shipping both ways minus a small amount for the inconvenience for an unslabbed, accurately graded 9.4. I don't buy the argument about "How many copies did the seller have to send in before getting a 9.4." The issue isn't how many 9.2 and 9.0 copies the dealer had overgraded. The issue is, how much is the 9.4 copy worth.

 

Having said that, there is no way this will happen because even accurately graded 9.4s from reputable sellers don't usually sell for the same price that a CGC 9.4 (minus slabbing fees) would cost. I think that it is unwise at this time to base the guide on CGC related copies. I think that the way to go at this point is to stick with reporting realized sales on them (like GPAnalysis does), but that the guide should not try to quantify the difference between slabbed and unslabbed values (like comicpriceguide.com does, and winds up being wildly inaccurate in all directions).

 

The topic of a restored book came up, and someone suggested a fair price for a restored comic would be the original grade @ guide, plus the cost of restoration. This is not fair when it comes to graded 9.4's IMO because someone may have to send in several copies before they hit on that elusive 9.4. Easier perhaps when sending in a modern, but not so when sending in Bronze or Silver. So, simply adding the cost of slabbing to the guide price doesn't/shouldn't work.

 

So, how many Moderns, Bronze or SIlvers must one send in to get that 9.4. Odds improve if you know how to grade. But, if we had that information (hello CGC )maybe we could work out a formula.

 

Modern: guide plus (2 X's guide)

Bronze: guide plus (4 X's guide)

Silver: guide plus ....well you get the idea.

[deathlok]

What kind of Raw 9.4 can you sell for the same as Graded CGC 9.4?

 

Davidking623

 

Most moderns probably.

 

I don't think you can find a 9.4 raw that sells for the same price as a slabbed 9.4.

 

That's kinda why I put "should sell" in bold. To make that distinction.

 

That is the problem with today's market is that raw copies are not selling for guide. They are selling for what slabbed copies go for. Just because you buy a 9.4 raw book and then send it in to CGC to be graded does not mean that that book is worth more if it comes back as a 9.4. It's the same book. If you then cracked the case, and took the 9.4 out. It's still a 9.4 raw book, the same book yoou initially bought it. I realize that slabbed books sell for more, regardless of grade.

[sterlingcomics]

YES. The cost of 9.4 SHOULD be the same whether raw or graded.

 

And that day will come when people agree on a grading standard, or people see no inherent value in the slab. So good luck there. That's the reason why I think CGC commands a premium--the value of the slab itself, and the confidence of the grading. Do I have to remind folks why people bid 2 grades lower on eBay? Confidence (or lack thereof)--affects the bottom line.

[deathlok]

YES. The cost of 9.4 SHOULD be the same whether raw or graded.

 

And that day will come when people agree on a grading standard, or people see no inherent value in the slab. So good luck there. That's the reason why I think CGC commands a premium--the value of the slab itself, and the confidence of the grading. Do I have to remind folks why people bid 2 grades lower on eBay? Confidence (or lack thereof)--affects the bottom line.

 

Except the slab has no value. It's the book inside. People don't bid 2 grades lower because they have a lack of confidence in the book, it based upon the lack of confidence in the seller, regardless of which books are for auction.

 

This whole thread is amusing in that you guys are willing to raise the value of a book just because it is slabbed.

"I don't want to pay guide 9.4 prices for books, I want to pay multiples of guide for slabbed 9.4 books, because CGC says its a 9.4. Fleece me for all I'm worth!"

[sterlingcomics]

YES. The cost of 9.4 SHOULD be the same whether raw or graded.

 

And that day will come when people agree on a grading standard, or people see no inherent value in the slab. So good luck there. That's the reason why I think CGC commands a premium--the value of the slab itself, and the confidence of the grading. Do I have to remind folks why people bid 2 grades lower on eBay? Confidence (or lack thereof)--affects the bottom line.

 

Except the slab has no value. It's the book inside. People don't bid 2 grades lower because they have a lack of confidence in the book, it based upon the lack of confidence in the seller, regardless of which books are for auction.

 

This whole thread is amusing in that you guys are willing to raise the value of a book just because it is slabbed.

"I don't want to pay guide 9.4 prices for books, I want to pay multiples of guide for slabbed 9.4 books, because CGC says its a 9.4. Fleece me for all I'm worth!"

 

The slab has value from the protection it provides, and the confidence it brings in knowing that the book is MORE LIKELY in being in the given grade than Joe Blo and his grade standard du jour.

 

Since the majority of my transactions are e-commerce based, I don't mind paying a premium for this. I do believe pricing is getting out of hand however in certain Ages and niches.

 

I am no way whatsoever saying I want to pay multiples of guide that we do now, but I believe its ok to pay for the cost of the slab and a small premium. Eventually, prices will settle.

 

But I live in reality--your reality isn't going to happen anytime soon.

[deathlok]

YES. The cost of 9.4 SHOULD be the same whether raw or graded.

 

And that day will come when people agree on a grading standard, or people see no inherent value in the slab. So good luck there. That's the reason why I think CGC commands a premium--the value of the slab itself, and the confidence of the grading. Do I have to remind folks why people bid 2 grades lower on eBay? Confidence (or lack thereof)--affects the bottom line.

 

Except the slab has no value. It's the book inside. People don't bid 2 grades lower because they have a lack of confidence in the book, it based upon the lack of confidence in the seller, regardless of which books are for auction.

 

This whole thread is amusing in that you guys are willing to raise the value of a book just because it is slabbed.

"I don't want to pay guide 9.4 prices for books, I want to pay multiples of guide for slabbed 9.4 books, because CGC says its a 9.4. Fleece me for all I'm worth!"

 

The slab has value from the protection it provides, and the confidence it brings in knowing that the book is MORE LIKELY in being in the given grade than Joe Blo and his grade standard du jour.

 

Since the majority of my transactions are e-commerce based, I don't mind paying a premium for this. I do believe pricing is getting out of hand however in certain Ages and niches.

 

I am no way whatsoever saying I want to pay multiples of guide that we do now, but I believe its ok to pay for the cost of the slab and a small premium. Eventually, prices will settle.

 

But I live in reality--your reality isn't going to happen anytime soon.

 

 

My reality? You the one who is delusional in thinking that's it's okay to pay more for a slabbed book. I never said that my reality is that raw and slabbed are the same price. Again for the slow-minded, I said

should

. It will NEVER happen. My reality is that slabbed books command a much higher price than raw books. Why? The CGC census. The rarity of a book in grade is a major factor in its overall value. It has nothing to do with it being in a slab or not.

[valiantman]

So, if I am understanding the responses so far...

 

Given that some book sells regularly for $50 in CGC 9.4...

and you want to list the book accurately as NM 9.4 (ungraded) in a price guide...

 

deathlok says that the price guide should list the NM non-CGC book at $50.

fantasyfootballbono says that the price guide should list the NM book around $25.

ninanina says that the price guide should list the NM book around $10.

25centcomic says that you would need two price guides.

 

So... what are we expecting the new Overstreet to help us with again?