If they are, should CGC refrain from dealing with Robojo/Danny D/Perry Stroud?

[sborock]

All I know is they better be judging his books with a very discerning eye if he is subbing.

 

Considering the CGC graders don't know who the books belong to, and they are impartial, why would they pay special attention to his?

 

I'm sure like in any business, there are certain people that businesses will not do business with. It's up to each business to use their own discretion with whom they would do business with.

 

Even though the graders do not know who's books are being received the administrative staff who does the unpackaging and invoicing would.

 

 

Yep.

When I was at CGC, I made sure that Danny-Boy was not allowed to submit books or be a member dealer. I am sure it is the same now. That said, he could submit books under another name and address, or use someone else to submit books. The key here is that he is not a "member dealer", so he can not take books from a collector to submit for them, switch out the book for a restored/lower grade book of his own and say "That's what you got back, so it must be what you sent in.". Gerry Ross, who made a stink about it to my bosses at the time he was turned down, was also declined as a "member dealer" for the same reason. We probably would have done the same with Greg White....

'in crooks!

[Bruno_s4]

All I know is they better be judging his books with a very discerning eye if he is subbing.

 

Considering the CGC graders don't know who the books belong to, and they are impartial, why would they pay special attention to his?

 

I'm sure like in any business, there are certain people that businesses will not do business with. It's up to each business to use their own discretion with whom they would do business with.

 

Even though the graders do not know who's books are being received the administrative staff who does the unpackaging and invoicing would.

 

 

Yep.

When I was at CGC, I made sure that Danny-Boy was not allowed to submit books or be a member dealer. I am sure it is the same now. That said, he could submit books under another name and address, or use someone else to submit books. The key here is that he is not a "member dealer", so he can not take books from a collector to submit for them, switch out the book for a restored/lower grade book of his own and say "That's what you got back, so it must be what you sent in.". Gerry Ross, who made a stink about it to my bosses at the time he was turned down, was also declined as a "member dealer" for the same reason. We probably would have done the same with Greg White....

'in crooks!

 

Excellent. Good to hear Steve! I am glad that CGC took this just as seriously as us collectors. (thumbs u

[Larryw7]

Where the hell does he get all these books anyways???

 

I was just looking at his auctions yesterday and he ALWAYS has multiple SA keys in pretty HG. That scumbag sure has a freaking GREAT connection cus he has a never ending supply of major keys

 

I think quite a few of his raw books are stockpiled from his Fantazia days. He had an endless supply of high grade SA in those days, and that was when most of these books were pretty cheap.

[MCJ]

He also gets books consigned to him, which he can buy outright.

 

As a recent customer of "Perry" aka Dan Dupcak (I bought a raw Avengers #3), I'm a bit nervous about how the book will do...It's currently in the grading pipeline at CGC.

 

I was selling books to Darren at Pristine comics (local dealer for my area--you know, the one with all the Stan Lee signed books) and he told me a horror story of dealing with robojo33 after I mentioned that I was considering sending my books off for consignment. He encouraged me to come to the boards here. It didn't take me long to find posts with links like:

 

http://www.justafanboy.com/ComicKeys/

 

Ay Carumba! That's the price I pay for being off the boards for an extended period of time (I was focused on Business School). Dupcak's apparently (allegedly) been committing fraud for *years* and all I saw was his 100% feedback rating as robojo33...

 

Now that I'm back on the boards, still a relative babe in the woods, not a day goes by that someone doesn't mention robojo or bijoubaby05. Check out this description for Incredible Hulk #1:

 

Features: 1st Appearance of the Incredible Hulk

Grade: In my opinion this comic is in 9.0 shape. There is a small amount of color touch on the cover of the comic. It doesn't detract anything away from this beautiful comic.

Page Quality: Off-White/White

 

source:

 

http://itsalljustcomics.com/2011/01/23/high-comics-related-item-for-the-week-ending-2011-1-22-incredible-hulk-1/

 

At least the color touch was disclosed...

 

Information is power. The last thing that a fraudster wants is for their fraud to be exposed. Should he be banned from submitting books to the CGC? Is he using his sales to unwitting dupes <-----like me, to test the boundaries of CGC's ability to detect restoration? I worry.

 

I'll post a thread on the grade I receive back for the Av #3. (I also have a PGX book in the pipeline at CGC, and I'm curious to see if it will come back with the same grade, but that's OT).

 

 

Well, my copy of Avengers #3 has been graded by the CGC. What Dupcak represented as an 8.0 is going to come back to me as: a Blue Label (yay!) 5.0 ow. (Oh no!) I'm going to contact him about this, but I expect to be ignored...

 

The apparent 7.0 copy of JIM #85 that I bought from highgrade comics is coming back as a 6.5 c/ow, and the 5.0 PGX graded copy of JIM #83 is coming back as an ow 4.0. So, It looks like I overspent on these raw comics by over $2000 (counting the Avengers #4 as a total loss).

 

For the record, I'm ok with the copy of #85 from Bob. I knew there was a chance that it could come back below 7.0. Bob had advised me before I made my final offer on the book that he and the previous owner (boardie Brian Ketterer) had agreed on the grade. I would happily do business with him again. Caveat emptor when buying a raw comic...

 

In any case, I won't buy a PGX slabbed comic without discounting it by a full grade. I should have had it pressed before I sent it in, true enough, but I wanted to see how it would stack up (fwiw, none were pressed before I sent them in). Now I know first hand why PGX sells at a discount to CGC slabbed comics. It's not worth it.

 

And robojo (and bijoubaby for that matter) should be avoided, but y'all knew that already

 

An expensive lesson learned. Big sigh...

[Junkdrawer]

Well, my copy of Avengers #3 has been graded by the CGC. What Dupcak represented as an 8.0 is going to come back to me as: a Blue Label (yay!) 5.0 ow. (Oh no!) I'm going to contact him about this, but I expect to be ignored...

 

So when you got this book that they told you was an 8.0, at that point, did it look like an 8.0? Any book that I have ever seen in the "Spare me a grade " section, mostly all boardies seem to be within a range of a few points either way on any particular book, For someone to grade the same book a 5.0 and someone else to say its an 8.0 ,obviously means someone knows little about grading or is missing something. What were the CGC notes?

[MCJ]

My refund request has been sent off to "Perry Stroud."

 

I'l keep you posted (I expect to hear crickets).

 

Meanwhile, I know what you're thinking, to recoup my investment in the other two copies, I could have them pressed and resubmitted to the CGC. I've been on the fence on the issue of pressing, but I've decided to sink more money into those two copies, given the circumstances. That process isn't guaranteed to get results, I understand, but I've made up my mind.

 

This really has not been a good Friday so far.

[MCJ]

No grading notes yet (I should get the books back next week).

 

Robojo tilts the camera to hide obvious flaws. Here's the listing photo:

 

http://i497.photobucket.com/albums/rr337/Robotics223/Avengers3_030111.jpg

 

You can see the right corner crease and see some spine stress, but once I had the comic in hand, the spine stresses were much more extensive than they appeared in the photo.

 

I still believed at that point that the copy was in 7-ish territory, but I tend to over grade, especially when I'm hopeful. It could have been worse, I considered buying his raw copy of Avengers #2, which he represented as a 9.6 (!) Now *that* would have hurt far worse!

[Bomber-Bob]

This is sort of a gray area for me ethically. I definately have seen books that I think should have been graded higher by CGC. If I were to crack one and sell it, I think that I would feel obligated to tell the buyer its CGC history.

 

If I was a buyer, I would definately like to know. I may well agree with the higher grade and price, but I think disclosure would be best. Obviously, this is an easier thing to do in person, when the buyer can hold a book in hand and determine the grade for themselves.

 

Otherwise, I would run the risk of sliding down the slope to robojo-land.

 

Note- I'm not trying to question your ethics. Just trying to work out my own.

 

P.S. To be honest, I've removed a few books from slabs and sold them as a higher grade, because, frankly, they were.

 

I am curious as to how the Boards members in general feel about cracking and selling raw at a higher grade without disclosure. I once saw a major key that I had sold show up on the boards for sale a full grade higher in it's raw state. The book had already been pressed and was held down by a stain. As so often happens with a stain, the book indded had the eye appeal of a full grade higher. Like Hamlet above, I personally think this is a bit unethical = I couldn't do it. What do you think ?

[mschmidt]

This is sort of a gray area for me ethically. I definately have seen books that I think should have been graded higher by CGC. If I were to crack one and sell it, I think that I would feel obligated to tell the buyer its CGC history.

 

If I was a buyer, I would definately like to know. I may well agree with the higher grade and price, but I think disclosure would be best. Obviously, this is an easier thing to do in person, when the buyer can hold a book in hand and determine the grade for themselves.

 

Otherwise, I would run the risk of sliding down the slope to robojo-land.

 

Note- I'm not trying to question your ethics. Just trying to work out my own.

 

P.S. To be honest, I've removed a few books from slabs and sold them as a higher grade, because, frankly, they were.

 

I am curious as to how the Boards members in general feel about cracking and selling raw at a higher grade without disclosure. I once saw a major key that I had sold show up on the boards for sale a full grade higher in it's raw state. The book had already been pressed and was held down by a stain. As so often happens with a stain, the book indded had the eye appeal of a full grade higher. Like Hamlet above, I personally think this is a bit unethical = I couldn't do it. What do you think ?

 

It's all about disclosure, really. If you disagree with CGC's opinion, that's fine - but if CGC slabbed the book as a 7.0 and you're trying to sell it as a 9.0, at least have the integrity to mention that it was previously sitting in a 7.0 slab.

[synch]

i think cracking a low grade cgc & selling it as higher grade is a thing to do at least imo

[Speedy-D]

This is sort of a gray area for me ethically. I definately have seen books that I think should have been graded higher by CGC. If I were to crack one and sell it, I think that I would feel obligated to tell the buyer its CGC history.

 

If I was a buyer, I would definately like to know. I may well agree with the higher grade and price, but I think disclosure would be best. Obviously, this is an easier thing to do in person, when the buyer can hold a book in hand and determine the grade for themselves.

 

Otherwise, I would run the risk of sliding down the slope to robojo-land.

 

Note- I'm not trying to question your ethics. Just trying to work out my own.

 

P.S. To be honest, I've removed a few books from slabs and sold them as a higher grade, because, frankly, they were.

 

I am curious as to how the Boards members in general feel about cracking and selling raw at a higher grade without disclosure. I once saw a major key that I had sold show up on the boards for sale a full grade higher in it's raw state. The book had already been pressed and was held down by a stain. As so often happens with a stain, the book indded had the eye appeal of a full grade higher. Like Hamlet above, I personally think this is a bit unethical = I couldn't do it. What do you think ?

 

It's all about disclosure, really. If you disagree with CGC's opinion, that's fine - but if CGC slabbed the book as a 7.0 and you're trying to sell it as a 9.0, at least have the integrity to mention that it was previously sitting in a 7.0 slab.

Yep, that seems to be general board consensus.

[MCJ]

Cracking a slab and selling it as a higher grade is unethical business practice. Burn the seller with fire.

 

 

Several times now, in the forum sales threads, I've seen members disclose what an issue had previously graded at, and whether or not it was pressed before it was resubmitted. That's part of why I like coming here...You quickly get a sense of whom to trust (or at least have a measure of confidence in) or avoid for their past behavior.

 

Before I start going on about how "it takes a village," I think it's important to remember how important it is to behave ethically in the hobby. We want the hobby to grow, and not decline like some of the other hobbies have due to fraud...

 

If you disagree with a grade, crack the slab, press it, resubmit. Otherwise leave it in the slab and break out the Kleenex tissues (excuse me, I have something in my eye)...

 

 

[chrisco37]

Why would CGC turn a paying customer away?

 

I'm sure he gets his books submitted by someone else just so CGC doesn't take a special interest in reviewing his books with some extra effort/time.

 

Just like Ewert does. Allegedly.

[dupont2005]

Is Jason Ewert banned from CGC?

[chrisco37]

Is Jason Ewert banned from CGC?

 

As far as I know, he is not allowed to submit.

 

[Bomber-Bob]

Cracking a slab and selling it as a higher grade is unethical business practice. Burn the seller with fire.

 

 

Several times now, in the forum sales threads, I've seen members disclose what an issue had previously graded at, and whether or not it was pressed before it was resubmitted. That's part of why I like coming here...You quickly get a sense of whom to trust (or at least have a measure of confidence in) or avoid for their past behavior.

 

Before I start going on about how "it takes a village," I think it's important to remember how important it is to behave ethically in the hobby. We want the hobby to grow, and not decline like some of the other hobbies have due to fraud...

 

If you disagree with a grade, crack the slab, press it, resubmit. Otherwise leave it in the slab and break out the Kleenex tissues (excuse me, I have something in my eye)...

 

 

I agree with you and here's what bothers me. My observation of a book I previously owned that was cracked out and sold raw for a full grade point higher (example 6.0 to 7.0) of a major key that meant a doubling of a large pricetag was with a major, trusted seller on the Boards. It saddens me to say this community, this 'village' we think we have doesn't exist. It's all about greed.

[MCJ]

Update on the copy of Avengers #3 that Dupcak sold as a raw 8.0 and came back from the CGC as a Blue label 5.0:

 

Once I provided an estimate of my grading expenses and postage, and he received the book back from me, he gave a full refund for all expenses. I'm so relieved.

 

I feel better not having that hang over my head any longer.

[seanfingh]

Cracking a slab and selling it as a higher grade is unethical business practice. Burn the seller with fire.

 

 

Several times now, in the forum sales threads, I've seen members disclose what an issue had previously graded at, and whether or not it was pressed before it was resubmitted. That's part of why I like coming here...You quickly get a sense of whom to trust (or at least have a measure of confidence in) or avoid for their past behavior.

 

Before I start going on about how "it takes a village," I think it's important to remember how important it is to behave ethically in the hobby. We want the hobby to grow, and not decline like some of the other hobbies have due to fraud...

 

If you disagree with a grade, crack the slab, press it, resubmit. Otherwise leave it in the slab and break out the Kleenex tissues (excuse me, I have something in my eye)...

 

 

I agree with you and here's what bothers me. My observation of a book I previously owned that was cracked out and sold raw for a full grade point higher (example 6.0 to 7.0) of a major key that meant a doubling of a large pricetag was with a major, trusted seller on the Boards. It saddens me to say this community, this 'village' we think we have doesn't exist. It's all about greed.

 

[seanfingh]

Cracking a slab and selling it as a higher grade is unethical business practice. Burn the seller with fire.

 

 

Several times now, in the forum sales threads, I've seen members disclose what an issue had previously graded at, and whether or not it was pressed before it was resubmitted. That's part of why I like coming here...You quickly get a sense of whom to trust (or at least have a measure of confidence in) or avoid for their past behavior.

 

Before I start going on about how "it takes a village," I think it's important to remember how important it is to behave ethically in the hobby. We want the hobby to grow, and not decline like some of the other hobbies have due to fraud...

 

If you disagree with a grade, crack the slab, press it, resubmit. Otherwise leave it in the slab and break out the Kleenex tissues (excuse me, I have something in my eye)...

 

 

I agree with you and here's what bothers me. My observation of a book I previously owned that was cracked out and sold raw for a full grade point higher (example 6.0 to 7.0) of a major key that meant a doubling of a large pricetag was with a major, trusted seller on the Boards. It saddens me to say this community, this 'village' we think we have doesn't exist. It's all about greed.

 

 

Oh yeah,

[DR.X]

All I know is they better be judging his books with a very discerning eye if he is subbing.

 

Considering the CGC graders don't know who the books belong to, and they are impartial, why would they pay special attention to his?

 

They wouldn't. This is one of most clever con men there is. As far as him submitting books himself that's never going to happen. One his mindless ones that he has a spell on is funneling his books.

 

DR.X