recent Heritage auction

[namisgr]

I love these discussions about the preservation of cover colors and whites, as it's a huge aspect of the eye appeal, but is massively overshadowed by the numerical grade.

 

Having seen a bunch of the Twin Cities books in NY, and now having three in hand, I believe they rank highly but not at the top tier for color preservation. All three of my TC copies have richer colors and brighter whites than the slabbed comics they are replacing in my collection. Here's an example, pedigree versus pedigree, images scanned and processed at the same time under the same conditions:

 

 

and

 

Twin Cities:

 

White Mountain:

[namisgr]

Admittedly, some of the TC books have thin tanning stripes that detract from the overall eye appeal quite a bit. I also think the pedigree doesn't measure up to the Massachusetts books for whiteness of cover stock. With that said, I think the collection compares favorably with the Pacific Coast, White Mountain, and post-1965 Northland books.

 

Curators? I've only owned three, but they all had back cover yellowing from the oils in the paper. Same light but appreciable yellowing for the Pac Coast comics, along with a translucent appearance to the front covers. Toth? Gorgeous early DCs, but none of the early Marvels that more commonly suffer from cover yellowing. Rocky Mountains? Maybe more white from 1966 onward, but the really tough early SA is lacking.

 

Bottom line? I think the Twin Cities are exceptionally nice, even for the quality of the early material, with gorgeous cover inks and decent whites, but are certainly marred by the occasional tanning stripe. For overall eye appeal of the SA Marvels, I'd probably take the Mass collection over any of them.

[cheetah]

All this can only make you appreciate the Edgar Church/Mile High books. I've got copies from the early 1940s that are whiter than any silver age book I own.

[tth2]

Admittedly, some of the TC books have thin tanning stripes that detract from the overall eye appeal quite a bit. I also think the pedigree doesn't measure up to the Massachusetts books for whiteness of cover stock. With that said, I think the collection compares favorably with the Pacific Coast, White Mountain, and post-1965 Northland books.

 

Curators? I've only owned three, but they all had back cover yellowing from the oils in the paper. Same light but appreciable yellowing for the Pac Coast comics, along with a translucent appearance to the front covers. Toth? Gorgeous early DCs, but none of the early Marvels that more commonly suffer from cover yellowing. Rocky Mountains? Maybe more white from 1966 onward, but the really tough early SA is lacking.

 

Bottom line? I think the Twin Cities are exceptionally nice, even for the quality of the early material, with gorgeous cover inks and decent whites, but are certainly marred by the occasional tanning stripe. For overall eye appeal of the SA Marvels, I'll take the Mass collection over any of them.

Nice analysis, Bob!

 

It is tough finding white cover SA Marvels, even from the best pedigrees, that haven`t fully or partially turned into that dingy yellow. DCs definitely benefited from using superior paper stock for their covers.

[tth2]

All this can only make you appreciate the Edgar Church/Mile High books. I've got copies from the early 1940s that are whiter than any silver age book I own.

GA books also often benefited from using superior paper stock for both the covers and interior pages, compared to SA books.

 

And I agree with you that some Churches are just blindingly white. Like they just came off the newsstand.

[Silver Surfer]

Bob great points. I'm going to crack out all the TC books I buy so it will be fun to look at the books up close. I've cracked all of my pac coast books except the tta #100 which has one of the whitest covers I've ever own (will crack that out tonight). Only reason I didn't chase the TC tta #100 was because of the dingy looking cover, my pc copy presents much better.

[Peter Loves Gwen]

Bob great points. I'm going to crack out all the TC books I buy so it will be fun to look at the books up close. I've cracked all of my pac coast books except the tta #100 which has one of the whitest covers I've ever own (will crack that out tonight). Only reason I didn't chase the TC tta #100 was because of the dingy looking cover, my pc copy presents much better.

 

Great points guys. This is my goal also, to take them all out and see how they really look in hand. The grading system and the CGC cases make it very hard to compare books, especially when all you are looking at is a picture.

[NewWorldOrder]

Admittedly, some of the TC books have thin tanning stripes that detract from the overall eye appeal quite a bit. I also think the pedigree doesn't measure up to the Massachusetts books for whiteness of cover stock. With that said, I think the collection compares favorably with the Pacific Coast, White Mountain, and post-1965 Northland books.

 

Curators? I've only owned three, but they all had back cover yellowing from the oils in the paper. Same light but appreciable yellowing for the Pac Coast comics, along with a translucent appearance to the front covers. Toth? Gorgeous early DCs, but none of the early Marvels that more commonly suffer from cover yellowing. Rocky Mountains? Maybe more white from 1966 onward, but the really tough early SA is lacking.

 

Bottom line? I think the Twin Cities are exceptionally nice, even for the quality of the early material, with gorgeous cover inks and decent whites, but are certainly marred by the occasional tanning stripe. For overall eye appeal of the SA Marvels, I'd probably take the Mass collection over any of them.

 

Bob,

 

As far as pre-65 Marvels what is your top tier pedigree list?

[namisgr]

 

Bob,

 

As far as pre-65 Marvels what is your top tier pedigree list?

 

Haven't seen enough Curator or Western PA early SA Marvels to know where to include them. Also, other collectors would know a lot more than me about your question.

 

From what little I know:

 

For the early keys: White Mountain then Pac Coast, Mass, and Northland

For structure: Pac Coast (1963 on), Mass and White Mountain (pre-1963)

For eye appeal: Mass, then Pac Coast, Twin Cities, White Mountain, and Northland

For FF1-10: Slobodian, White Mountain, and Mass, then Twin Cities (Curators are legendarily awesome)

[MCJ]

The Mass Pedigree tends to go for a significant premium.

 

I have a bit of tunnel vision, admittedly, on Journey Into Mystery, but I know Bob's Mass copy of JIM 85 8.5 white pq sold for $4500 last year on Clink.

 

The next highest sale of a white pages copy at 8.5 was $3795 in March (non pedigree) and the Twin Cities copy in the Heritage auction for $3107 (I bought both).

[tth2]

 

Bob,

 

As far as pre-65 Marvels what is your top tier pedigree list?

 

Haven't seen enough Curator or Western PA early SA Marvels to know where to include them. Also, other collectors would know a lot more than me about your question.

 

From what little I know:

 

For the early keys: White Mountain then Pac Coast, Mass, and Northland

For structure: Pac Coast (1963 on), Mass and White Mountain (pre-1963)

For eye appeal: Mass, then Pac Coast, Twin Cities, White Mountain, and Northland

For FF1-10: Slobodian, White Mountain, and Mass, then Twin Cities (Curators are legendarily awesome)

For early Ant-Man TTA: Western Penn

For early Torch Strange Tales: Western Penn

[namisgr]

For early Torch Strange Tales: Western Penn

 

I don't know, the Twin Cities Strange Tales run is amazing. It includes 109 in 9.6, 110 in 9.4, 111 in 9.6, 114 in 9.8, 115 in 9.4, 117 in 9.6, and 118 in 9.6.

[linmoth]

 

Western Penn

 

Strange Tales: 101 9.4, 105-115 9.6

 

TTA: 35-40 9.6

 

Some could be 9.8 by now.

 

Tom B used to own them I guess he still does.

[namisgr]

Legends are enjoyable but also unverifiable. The same legendary uber-high grades are also tossed about for the Curators.

 

For the record, there are no slabbed copies of ST105 in 9.6.

[brasseye]

Legends are enjoyable but also unverifiable. The same legendary uber-high grades are also tossed about for the Curators.

 

For the record, there are no slabbed copies of ST105 in 9.6.

 

ST Curators are yet to be slabbed, and one other run... I can't recall.

 

Thats unless they've already been slabbed but have been unrecognised as originating from the ped.

[tth2]

Legends are enjoyable but also unverifiable. The same legendary uber-high grades are also tossed about for the Curators.

 

For the record, there are no slabbed copies of ST105 in 9.6.

Not just an unverified legend. The reason I mentioned Western Penn for those 2 specific runs is they are among the few early SA Marvels from the pedigree that have been slabbed. Most of the early top census STs are Western Penns, as are most of the early TTAs. Western Penn would win the TTA contest just by virtue of the 9.6 #35.

[brasseye]

Legends are enjoyable but also unverifiable. The same legendary uber-high grades are also tossed about for the Curators.

 

For the record, there are no slabbed copies of ST105 in 9.6.

Not just an unverified legend. The reason I mentioned Western Penn for those 2 specific runs is they are among the few early SA Marvels from the pedigree that have been slabbed. Most of the early top census STs are Western Penns, as are most of the early TTAs. Western Penn would win the TTA contest just by virtue of the 9.6 #35.

 

And while not on everyone's "hot list", the 68' Marvel starter series books, if it wasn't for the warehouse find, the only ped's that would of contributed to those books in top grade would of been Western Penn, then Boston, then Rocky Mountain.

But there is at least 3-4 copies of each of the 68' Marvel Starter books in the Western Penn ped.

[brasseye]

I think once (if ever) the SA pedigree book gets written and released, the Western Penn list of books, will surprised a lot of folks.

Everyone thinks, Pacific Coast is the big SA ped dog on the block, but I'd say it's heavily rivalled by the Western Penn Collection.

[tth2]

Legends are enjoyable but also unverifiable. The same legendary uber-high grades are also tossed about for the Curators.

 

For the record, there are no slabbed copies of ST105 in 9.6.

Not just an unverified legend. The reason I mentioned Western Penn for those 2 specific runs is they are among the few early SA Marvels from the pedigree that have been slabbed. Most of the early top census STs are Western Penns, as are most of the early TTAs. Western Penn would win the TTA contest just by virtue of the 9.6 #35.

 

And while not on everyone's "hot list", the 68' Marvel starter series books, if it wasn't for the warehouse find, the only ped's that would of contributed to those books in top grade would of been Western Penn, then Boston, then Rocky Mountain.

But there is at least 3-4 copies of each of the 68' Marvel Starter books in the Western Penn ped.

There are no PC, Mass, Northland or TC copies of the `68 "#1s"?

[tth2]

I think once (if ever) the SA pedigree book gets written and released, the Western Penn list of books, will surprised a lot of folks.

Everyone thinks, Pacific Coast is the big SA ped dog on the block, but I'd say it's heavily rivalled by the Western Penn Collection.

You know something about the Western Penn early SA Marvels that the rest of us don`t? I`m sure they`re very nice, but I don`t know if they`ve been identified.