Should I be concerned?

[Claudio]

notcutename: I don't want to limit my sales to the US. I am usually comfortable selling internationally. I get all my items insured and with delivery confirmations. I just do not want them to put a chargeback for "Item Not as Described". That seems like an easy way for people to get a chargeback.

 

ckb: Couldn't I just end the terminate the sale by saying the item is no longer available because it was damaged? I think ebay automatically terminates the sale and doesn't give the buyer a chance to neg you.

[InvstmntComcSuply]

There's no way I would accept anything but a bank check or international money order for that large a payment from someone without a history or any references.

 

YMMV

 

He sold on eBay. He has to accept Paypal, ProPay, Moneybookers, Paymate, or Credit card or debit card processed through the seller's Internet merchant account as a electronic payment method.

 

Someone with that attidude will lose thousands. He has to do no such thing. What would you rather have, a non-performing seller strike or to not be out $800?

 

Work with the buyer. If they insist on paypal, take the non-performing seller mark on the chin. If the buyer really wants the item and spend the money, he will get you solid payment.

 

That is ridiculous.

Just ship the item and insure it. There is still some slight risk involved, but there also is in domestic sales.

If you don't want future international business block all international sales.

Make sure your buyer knows there will likely be import duties/taxes, if applicable. Often low feedback buyers don't understand that this is not included in their bid.

 

[CKB]

There's no way I would accept anything but a bank check or international money order for that large a payment from someone without a history or any references.

 

YMMV

 

He sold on eBay. He has to accept Paypal, ProPay, Moneybookers, Paymate, or Credit card or debit card processed through the seller's Internet merchant account as a electronic payment method.

 

Someone with that attidude will lose thousands. He has to do no such thing. What would you rather have, a non-performing seller strike or to not be out $800?

 

Work with the buyer. If they insist on paypal, take the non-performing seller mark on the chin. If the buyer really wants the item and spend the money, he will get you solid payment.

 

That is ridiculous.

Just ship the item and insure it. There is still some slight risk involved, but there also is in domestic sales.

If you don't want future international business block all international sales.

Make sure your buyer knows there will likely be import duties/taxes, if applicable. Often low feedback buyers don't understand that this is not included in their bid.

 

I'm happy you could treat $800 so cavalierly but I could not. There is no 'slight risk' with $800. On large sales, the reward goes up, so the risk goes up similarly. If you couple that with no sales history, you have nothing. It is akin to going into a retail store you've never been to and writing a personal check for $800. The store is going to check you out as thouroughly as possible, if they accept it at all.

 

First off, postal insurance requires proof of payment and proof of value on a claim. The latter of those two things is very hard for Art. There is no price guide with your piece in it. Postal insurance is very iffy on SNAD issues, too.

 

Now, if you have collector's insurance, now you have something. If you have any problems at all with shipping you can make that claim and get paid less your deductable.

 

If this was someone with significnant feedback and other high dollar sales in their history over the last 60 days - sales you could contact the other buyer on see how it went - with some references, I would be singing a different tune. But, I cannot in good conscience advocate this seller to just drop his $800 piece in the mail and cross his fingers.

 

 

[CKB]

ckb: Couldn't I just end the terminate the sale by saying the item is no longer available because it was damaged? I think ebay automatically terminates the sale and doesn't give the buyer a chance to neg you.

 

You can cancel the transaction. I am not sure what options are given to the buyer when you use the "no longer available, lost or broken" option. I haven't done it. On the options I have used, the buyer must agree to the reason you are giving for not completing the sale. My best guess is that you would be subject to a non-performing seller mark (pretty much a non-event, unless you have 3 or more). Not sure where feedback fits in this scenerio. When both parties agree, feedback is taken off the table.

 

I'm not sure why you would want to do that before giving the buyer the option to send you a money order or bank check, and to wait 20 business days for those to settle, as an option. If it's a bank check you can probably call the bank and get a validation on the phone and not have to wait so long. I've done that with a number of US banks - they will say whether or not the issued a check with that check number in that amount on the phone.

 

If it was me, and I could not get solid payment for the item, I would cancel the transaction. This is what *I* would do. Doesn't mean it's right or wrong or the buyer is illegitimate. Given what you are describing, it is the course I have followed many times in the past.

 

[InvstmntComcSuply]

 

I'm happy you could treat $800 so cavalierly but I could not. There is no 'slight risk' with $800.

 

The point is, the difference in risk between the domestic sale and the international insured sale is minimal. Sellers are screwed by scammers on a regular basis in both arenas.

 

First off, postal insurance requires proof of payment and proof of value on a claim. The latter of those two things is very hard for Art.

 

There is an ebay invoice and payment record

 

 

Postal insurance is very iffy on SNAD issues, too.

 

SNAD items filed through ebay would have to be returned with the same signature requirements.

 

 

[Pirate]

i use inkfrog which is on ebay for insurance. It will pull all your sales and you click to insure. Much cheaper than USPS and they handle claims quickly.

[CKB]

 

I'm happy you could treat $800 so cavalierly but I could not. There is no 'slight risk' with $800.

 

 

The point is, the difference in risk between the domestic sale and the international insured sale is minimal. Sellers are screwed by scammers on a regular basis in both arenas.

 

I would treat a $800 transaction the same whether it was foreign or domestic. But I disagree that there is equal risk. There is more risk with international sales because it is much more difficult to actually follow through on any recourse you may have and the scammers know it. I'd be saying the same thing if the seller was in Canada and the buyer in the US.

 

First off, postal insurance requires proof of payment and proof of value on a claim. The latter of those two things is very hard for Art.

 

There is an ebay invoice and payment record

 

That is proof of payment. USPS does not accept the fact that someone paid $800 for something as proof of its value. You need an appraisal of some sort to establish value.

 

Last time I had a slab lost in the mail, I submitted photocopies of the Overstreet guide and GPA screen shots as proof of vaue.

 

[InvstmntComcSuply]

I didn't say the risk was equal. I said the difference in risk is minimal (and is minimized further by insuring the item).

 

I can't speak to the proof of "value" requirement from USPS, but I find it hard to believe that the USPS does not accept invoices and payments from two disinterested parties as proof of "value". If you are shipping to yourself, of course, you might have to show additional documentation for high price items (I don't think $800 is going to raise that many flags). But when you have an arms length transaction, that should not be an issue, especially if sold at auction with multiple bidders. If they push it, they are basically accusing you of fraud.

[NewWorldOrder]

 

Correct so you must either: (when it is over $250.00)

 

1. Send the item International PM USPS Express so you get the tracking/signature

2. Just make sure you package is insured just like any item so just in case if eBay or the customer screws you a claim can be made on the Post office end to at least get your money back.

 

PM (Priority Mail International) is a different service than Express Mail International.

 

1. is no good with (PM) Priority Mail because they do not require a signature (or any other service that does not require a signature)

1. is no good with Express Mail International IF paypal does not accept Canada Post's form of "detailed tracking" or doesn't require a signature

1. is good with Global Express Guaranteed (yet a different service level, contracted out through Fedex) with signature

 

Not sure I agree since I sent a 5000 book to Canada using Express Mail PM, and it got the signature.

[InvstmntComcSuply]

There is no Express Mail PM or Priority Mail Express or International PM USPS Express.

 

There is:

Priority Mail international

Express Mail International

Global Express Guaranteed

 

They are all separate service levels.

PMI is not supposed to have signature confirmation although it is my understanding that some countries do get it. (This would be unlikely for a scammer as they would just not "be there" to sign)

Apparently, normal EMI is supposed to have signature confirmation

 

 

 

[tth2]

ckb: Couldn't I just end the terminate the sale by saying the item is no longer available because it was damaged? I think ebay automatically terminates the sale and doesn't give the buyer a chance to neg you.

 

You can cancel the transaction.

I can`t believe you guys are advocating cancelling the transaction just because the buyer is a foreigner. He`s done nothing wrong at this point and there`s simply no justification for backing out of this transaction because of some crazy assumption that all foreigners are con artists.

 

If the seller`s listing had said he doesn`t sell outside the US, then he`d be entitled to cancel the sale. But he didn`t, so he should have to go through with the sale and live with the consequences.

[CKB]

I didn't say the risk was equal. I said the difference in risk is minimal (and is minimized further by insuring the item).

 

I can't speak to the proof of "value" requirement from USPS, but I find it hard to believe that the USPS does not accept invoices and payments from two disinterested parties as proof of "value". If you are shipping to yourself, of course, you might have to show additional documentation for high price items (I don't think $800 is going to raise that many flags). But when you have an arms length transaction, that should not be an issue, especially if sold at auction with multiple bidders. If they push it, they are basically accusing you of fraud.

 

I've been there. They don't. Think of the fraud you could pull off. Value assessments must be from a third party.

 

[CKB]

ckb: Couldn't I just end the terminate the sale by saying the item is no longer available because it was damaged? I think ebay automatically terminates the sale and doesn't give the buyer a chance to neg you.

 

You can cancel the transaction.

I can`t believe you guys are advocating cancelling the transaction just because the buyer is a foreigner. He`s done nothing wrong at this point and there`s simply no justification for backing out of this transaction because of some crazy assumption that all foreigners are con artists.

 

If the seller`s listing had said he doesn`t sell outside the US, then he`d be entitled to cancel the sale. But he didn`t, so he should have to go through with the sale and live with the consequences.

 

You do that with your $800 item. For my $800 item, I refuse.

 

Characteristics of the buyer are mainly irrelevant. What is relevant is that if the seller goes through with the transaction as described, he has no eBay protection. He will have no paypal protection if he cannot arrange a signature service. And his USPS insurance will be useless unless he can prove "value" which is very tough with comic art.

 

So, I am simply informing the seller that with no reason to have any faith in the buyer, falling back on the recourse outlined above could turn out to be problematic for him. And that in the same circustances, I would need a solid form of payment that cannot be arbitraily rescinded by a scammer by making a simple phone call and lying.

 

I'm not sure where I ever said anything about all foreigners being deadbeats.

 

[tth2]

I'm not sure where I ever said anything about all foreigners being deadbeats.

So you would tell him to treat the buyer with the same degree of suspicion and jump through all the same hoops, or cancel the transaction, if the buyer were located in the US?

[COI]

I can`t believe you guys are advocating cancelling the transaction just because the buyer is a foreigner. He`s done nothing wrong at this point

 

+1000

 

Yeesh.

[tth2]

I can`t believe you guys are advocating cancelling the transaction just because the buyer is a foreigner. He`s done nothing wrong at this point

 

+1000

 

Yeesh.

Damn Canadians!

[yoink-migration]

ckb: Couldn't I just end the terminate the sale by saying the item is no longer available because it was damaged? I think ebay automatically terminates the sale and doesn't give the buyer a chance to neg you.

 

If he cancels the sale, he deserves a Neg.

[InvstmntComcSuply]

I didn't say the risk was equal. I said the difference in risk is minimal (and is minimized further by insuring the item).

 

I can't speak to the proof of "value" requirement from USPS, but I find it hard to believe that the USPS does not accept invoices and payments from two disinterested parties as proof of "value". If you are shipping to yourself, of course, you might have to show additional documentation for high price items (I don't think $800 is going to raise that many flags). But when you have an arms length transaction, that should not be an issue, especially if sold at auction with multiple bidders. If they push it, they are basically accusing you of fraud.

 

I've been there. They don't. Think of the fraud you could pull off. Value assessments must be from a third party.

 

This is direct from the DMM:

 

For Internet transactions conducted through a Web-based payment network that offers payment services through a stored value account, provide a computer printout of the online transaction identifying the purchaser and seller, price paid, date of transaction, description of item purchased, and assurance that the transaction status is completed. The printout must clearly identify the Web-based payment network provider through which the Internet transaction was conducted.

 

There is similar stuff in the IMM. There is no special section on art. This is all that is needed for claims of entire loss. If it is a partial loss there would be all sorts of valuation/appraisal hoops that would have to be jumped through and I can see where that might become cumbersome for art or high grade material. But for entire loss, basically all you need is a completed bill of sale.

 

 

[Claudio]

ckb: Couldn't I just end the terminate the sale by saying the item is no longer available because it was damaged? I think ebay automatically terminates the sale and doesn't give the buyer a chance to neg you.

 

You can cancel the transaction.

I can`t believe you guys are advocating cancelling the transaction just because the buyer is a foreigner. He`s done nothing wrong at this point and there`s simply no justification for backing out of this transaction because of some crazy assumption that all foreigners are con artists.

 

If the seller`s listing had said he doesn`t sell outside the US, then he`d be entitled to cancel the sale. But he didn`t, so he should have to go through with the sale and live with the consequences.

 

I am just asking some questions and thinking out loud. I am NOT thinking of cancelling the transaction just because he is an international buyer. I am thinking of cancelling the transaction because he is an international buyer with 2 feedback. Something about this just feels iffy to me. Maybe because I heard too many horror stories here.

 

I will send it out and have faith in my fellow man. However, I am going to insure it and get a delivery confirmation. And if he tries something shady, I will just forfeit my paypal and ebay account. I am not going to get scammed. The money has already been withdrawn from paypal. My faith only goes so far. (thumbs u

[tth2]

ckb: Couldn't I just end the terminate the sale by saying the item is no longer available because it was damaged? I think ebay automatically terminates the sale and doesn't give the buyer a chance to neg you.

 

You can cancel the transaction.

I can`t believe you guys are advocating cancelling the transaction just because the buyer is a foreigner. He`s done nothing wrong at this point and there`s simply no justification for backing out of this transaction because of some crazy assumption that all foreigners are con artists.

 

If the seller`s listing had said he doesn`t sell outside the US, then he`d be entitled to cancel the sale. But he didn`t, so he should have to go through with the sale and live with the consequences.

 

I am just asking some questions and thinking out loud. I am NOT thinking of cancelling the transaction just because he is an international buyer. I am thinking of cancelling the transaction because he is an international buyer with 2 feedback. Something about this just feels iffy to me. Maybe because I heard too many horror stories here.

 

I will send it out and have faith in my fellow man. However, I am going to insure it and get a delivery confirmation. And if he tries something shady, I will just forfeit my paypal and ebay account. I am not going to get scammed. The money has already been withdrawn from paypal. My faith only goes so far. (thumbs u

(thumbs u