PVC vs. Barex. Are CGG holders really unsafe?

[Kevin Boyd]

More like:

 

Rottweilers, in general, can maim young children and can be very dangerous.

 

Someone has developed a new type of Rottweiler and claims that they are harmless. Studies have shown that they are docile but people who are used to the original breed are skeptical and generally avoid the new breed.

 

To further this analogy...

 

Someone is selling a dog (CGG) but not saying what the breed of dog is.

 

Turns out to be a Rottweiler (PVC). We don't know if it is the original breed (pPVC) or the new one that is supposedly docile. (uPVC).

 

So, should your children play with it?.

 

Logic dictates you don't let them do that until you know for sure that it is harmless.

 

By all means use the reverse logic... stick the kid's hand in it's face, you don't know for sure that it is vicious, right?.

 

Kev

[MW1]

More like:

 

Rottweilers, in general, can maim young children and can be very dangerous.

 

Someone has developed a new type of Rottweiler and claims that they are harmless.....

 

kevthemev,

 

That's a very poor analogy. CGG has not developed a new type of PVC. They used one that was already in existence.

 

 

I'd also like to point out that you have significantly changed your position on this issue. On your initial thread, you claimed the following:

 

And it is news that CGG (not CGC) is using a type of plastic that is universally discouraged for archival storage.

 

 

Contrast this with:

 

And it has NOT been established that the CGG holder is pPVC or uPVC.

 

And this:

 

If it is in fact PVC as this report has shown - the question that must be asked is - is it plasticized PVC (pPVC) or unplasticized PVC (uPVC)?

[Kevin Boyd]

IF I have changed my position it is because I AM willing to accept, based on some evidence that YOU have provided, that there might be a type of PVC plastic available that is ok to use.

 

Again... MIGHT is the key word.

 

Since I only know that the plastic is PVC of some kind, my original assertion is still valid. PVC is harmful and is universally avoided.

 

But I am now willing to say that it is possible that there might be a form of PVC that is not.

 

Kev

[MW1]

To further this analogy...

 

Someone is selling a dog (CGG) but not saying what the breed of dog is.

kevthemev,

 

OK. Then by that logic you should show equal concern for Barex since we do not know whether it is Barex 210 or Barex 218 or if it contains any archivally unsafe plasticizers, residual solvents or additives (e.g., ultraviolet inhibitors).

 

In fact, go back and look at what the (FTIR) spectroscopy results say about the CGC (and other storage) materials:

 

"A visual test may not be accurate and further testing of the samples is recommended in order to determine the presence of any harmful constituents...."

[Kevin Boyd]

But it is no secret that CGC is using Barex, and Barex is not a plastic polymer that is universally despised as PVC has been.

 

But if you want to debate the merits, good or ill, of Barex, go ahead.

 

Kev

[MW1]

But if you want to debate the merits, good or ill, of Barex, go ahead.

I already did. It's the first post in this thread.

[shadroch]

At this juncture,if steve B was to come aboard and tell us the type of barex being used,210 or 280, I would have no problem trusting in the truth of his statement. After the altered scan incident,I can't say the same for anyone involved in CGG.

Since trust is vital to accepting third party grading,the matter of what type of PVC CGG is using is,again to me, irrelevent.

I would like to know what exactly CGC is using.

[economo-migration]

there are limits to science. Only empirical evidence may corroborate the true archival attributes to different plastics.

[sborock]

At this juncture,if steve B was to come aboard and tell us the type of barex being used,210 or 280, I would have no problem trusting in the truth of his statement. After the altered scan incident,I can't say the same for anyone involved in CGG.

Since trust is vital to accepting third party grading,the matter of what type of PVC CGG is using is,again to me, irrelevent.

I would like to know what exactly CGC is using.

 

CGC uses 210

[MW1]

shadroch,

 

Actually, it's 210 or 218. I mistakenly typed 280. I do not believe there is an acrylonitrile designated as 280.

[shadroch]

shadroch,

 

Actually, it's 210 or 218. I mistakenly typed 280. I do not believe there is an acrylonitrile designated as 280.

 

MW1,

While we disagree on some things,I'll certainly bow to your expertise in this field.

CGC uses tpe 210.Your thoughts on this as opposed to both the other type and to either type of PCV.

Thanks, Steve for your quick response.Hope you didn't open another can of worms.

[MW1]

Your thoughts on this as opposed to both the other type and to either type of PVC.

Shadroch,

 

Here's a rough comparison (Note: data is for sheets, not film. Best guess chosen for PVC)

 

[duncan36]

Just in the interest of fairness and disclosure MW1 could you tell us if you profit from any source related to PVC or if you're paid by some source to try and 'spread the gospel' about PVC's?

I'm not being accusatory here but if you do profit in the ways mentioned above its only fair that you disclose it to us.

[MW1]

Just in the interest of fairness and disclosure MW1 could you tell us if you profit from any source related to PVC or if you're paid by some source to try and 'spread the gospel' about PVC's?

Nope. I am not involved in any PVC related businesses nor have I ever been associated with anyone (to the best of my knowledge) who was involved in a PVC related business. Moreover, none of my salary (or financial compensation) is derived from PVC related sources.

[25CentComic]

Just in the interest of fairness and disclosure MW1 could you tell us if you profit from any source related to PVC or if you're paid by some source to try and 'spread the gospel' about PVC's?

I'm not being accusatory here but if you do profit in the ways mentioned above its only fair that you disclose it to us.

 

Yes please. Both MW1 and Kevtheman. I curious as to where both parties work and where they are getting their information since this whole issues has boiled down to one of trust.

[Kevin Boyd]

I curious as to where both parties work and where they are getting their information since this whole issues has boiled down to one of trust.

 

I am the President of PVC Plastics, Inc. of Toronto, Canada... oops... smoked too much of the crack there....

 

I am a medical Research Associate. I work for Cancer Care Ontario coordinating studies related to the genetics of colorectal cancer.

 

In my spare time (ha!) I coordinate the Toronto Comicon, a 3-day comic book convention in Toronto, Canada.

 

Kev

[AlexH]

Your thoughts on this as opposed to both the other type and to either type of PVC.

Shadroch,

 

Here's a rough comparison (Note: data is for sheets, not film. Best guess chosen for PVC)

 

 

Uhh, could you tell the less smart people what that means? I'm sure I won't be able to fully understand it, but maybe you could "dumb it down" a bit for us accountants.

[deathlok]

 

Your thoughts on this as opposed to both the other type and to either type of PVC.

Shadroch,

 

Here's a rough comparison (Note: data is for sheets, not film. Best guess chosen for PVC)

 

Uhh, could you tell the less smart people what that means? I'm sure I won't be able to fully understand it, but maybe you could "dumb it down" a bit for us accountants.

 

[AlexH]

Your thoughts on this as opposed to both the other type and to either type of PVC.

Shadroch,

 

Here's a rough comparison (Note: data is for sheets, not film. Best guess chosen for PVC)

 

Uhh, could you tell the less smart people what that means? I'm sure I won't be able to fully understand it, but maybe you could "dumb it down" a bit for us accountants.

 

 

What? Do you have something against people who like numbers???

[uclapeterg]

I'm an accountant and I don't understand the numbers either. The charts do look pretty tho.